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| Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? (1552571) | |
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| (1552753) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jul 10 10:43:15 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 10 10:23:00 2020. Pitkin is a good idea.Underground storage too. But graffiti would be a problem. |
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| (1552758) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Ble-nimx on Fri Jul 10 12:01:18 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 10 10:23:00 2020. Are there any pictures of the R16. Ive never seen one as an overhaul |
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| (1552760) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 10 12:37:46 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 9 23:39:15 2020. Mostly DO yard..and at the time, Coney Island. |
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| (1552774) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Jul 10 15:19:33 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Jul 9 19:54:48 2020. The RR banker's specials had them as well. |
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| (1552775) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Jul 10 16:19:04 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jul 9 22:41:03 2020. I never saw them on the LL (I left NYC in late August 1976). Did ride them on EE and GG. Maybe they got transferred to ENY later in 1976 (since Jamaica was getting in R-46). Speaking of EE, my last full day as a NYC resident (8/27/76) was the last day of service for the EE (and the K, and the E going to Brooklyn during peak hours). |
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| (1552778) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 17:59:05 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Ble-nimx on Fri Jul 10 12:01:18 2020. They only did one with an R-42 end bonnet. The problem with overhauling the R-1s with a transverse cab and provision for OPTO was the staggered doors and the offside front door had to be moved out of the way to allow for an offside cab window and it was found to be too costly. |
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| (1552779) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 18:04:54 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 9 21:35:24 2020. The R-16s didn't receive new door engines till after the R-44s were delivered in the mid 1970s and the MTA felt that the R-44’s door engines were superior to the original equipment on the R-16s. Why the R-12s through 15s which had the same door equipment as the 16s didn’t seem to experience the same trouble I don’t know. |
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| (1552781) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 10 18:11:57 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 17:59:05 2020. I thought I saw an R10 photo with an R42 bonnet, and an R16 rebuild that had a modified steel end, amd some butchering of the doorways and windows so as to accommodate a full width cab.I doubt any of them saw service. |
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| (1552782) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 18:13:26 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Ble-nimx on Thu Jul 9 20:42:45 2020. I noticed that many R-17s on the IRT had the inside panel with the “emergency” glass replaced with just a solid panel probably removed from the R-21s or 22s which despite being newer were scrapped ahead of the R-17s. |
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| (1552783) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 10 18:14:16 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 18:04:54 2020. Yet the R12-R15 ran outdoors on the #7 for 15 years just as long as the R16 did initially on the Jamaica line. Differing door performance just made no logical sense. |
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| (1552787) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jul 10 18:51:40 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 18:04:54 2020. Interesting about the doors.Maybe an R-16 has more doors therefore a greater chance for a malfunctioning door. Someone good at math could better explain it. |
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| (1552790) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 10 18:59:18 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jul 10 18:51:40 2020. The doors motors simply sucked.One Xmas eve in the mid-1960's, with my folks coming back from Northport around 10pm, with a few inches snow, we got to the Sutphin Bld el staion to head home to Woodhaven Blvd. It took about a half hour. About 2 or 3 door leaves per car functioned, and it took forever to get a door indication. We were in the first car, and we squirmed out of a single leaf door with packages that could only open about half way. I remember that trip like it was a couple of years ago. |
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| (1552791) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jul 10 19:00:42 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Jul 10 16:19:04 2020. I could be wrong. Maybe I saw the R-16 on the GG. When we lived in Ridgewood we took a lot of LL and GG places. |
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| (1552794) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jul 10 19:05:07 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 10 18:59:18 2020. I think they're called door panels not leaves, just so you know.At least you had a white Christmas. |
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| (1552796) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 10 19:09:42 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jul 10 19:00:42 2020. As the 1960's became the 1970's, they migrated from the RR to the EE and GG. As the Arnines were scrapped, the R16's went back there. As they fell apart, R32's had to fill in until the GOH era. Saw them many a time laid up on the tracks east of Queens Blvd station, with bumper block just west of Sutphin. |
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| (1552798) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jul 10 19:31:25 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 17:59:05 2020. 
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by murray1575 on Fri Jul 10 21:04:51 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 10 18:11:57 2020. Both of those trials were scrapped as it was found that purchasing new cars was more cost effective. |
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| (1552804) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 21:07:02 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 10 18:11:57 2020. You’re correct. The R-16 had a reconstructed end bonnet, but even with that, the off side door still had to be moved back to provide for an OPTO ready transverse cab. |
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| (1552809) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 10 21:31:27 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 17:59:05 2020. Wrong.They rebuilt an R10 with a 42 end cap. It was ridiculous looking and I'm glad they weren't serious about it. Again, the GOH R16 sported a bonnet different from anything on the road. It retained its headliner,but doorway was now flush like the 75fters,no sliding into a pocket. No pantagraph gates,headlights were recessed and a new R42 like rollsign was placed on the left side. The model sported a giant blue A bullet. The car body had modifications made,like you said,to car body, the doors in particular, to give it a full cab. Basically, the Modified R16 became a 60ft R46,and would have worked if not for a few things. The Rebuilt was expensive. It was TOTAL. THE R16 WERE OVERWEIGHT. AC MADE THEM EVEN HEAVIER. MORE SO, you might as well buy brand new cars for the cost of rebuilding these. The TA had its heart in the right place. But the 16s couldn't be saved. The 10/27/30 did manage to get a rebuild program so they could last a few more years. The 68s replaced the 16 COMPLETELY,along with the 10,27 and some 30s. Ppl |
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| (1552813) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jul 10 22:17:56 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Jul 9 20:38:27 2020. 6321 had the same problem. |
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| (1552814) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jul 10 22:22:06 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 9 21:35:24 2020. When snow was in the forecast, the R-16s were sent underground to the Lonesome Larry and the BMT standards trudged outdoors to battle the elements on the Curly and Moe lines. |
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| (1552817) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Jul 10 22:31:40 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 10 21:31:27 2020. IMHO even a GOH couldn't have saved the R-16s. |
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| (1552845) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Jul 11 11:14:24 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jul 10 21:31:27 2020. I miss them. |
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| (1552846) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Jul 11 11:19:14 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 9 19:36:02 2020. In that same time period, me and my friends would hop the train and go joy riding, and whenever we would transfer from the A at Broadway Junction, we would go upstairs and the LL always had those round port windows that we used to see on the IRT trains. We would take it to Canarsie and back to Union Square, where our R32 Sea Beach awaited us up the stairs. |
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| (1552848) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 12:01:37 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Jul 11 11:19:14 2020. Our routine on Saturday afternoons frequently included transferring at Union Square from those mean, ugly old BMT standards on the Lonesome Larry to the BMT Broadway line for a nice, brisk express sprint on an R-32 or on occasion, R-27/30, N train to 34th St., continuing on to Times Square. The thing I remember most is how those Larry trains would EMPTY at Union Square. People just poured out. |
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| (1552856) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sat Jul 11 13:38:08 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 12:01:37 2020. Union Square is often overlooked but it is one of the busiest stations on the system. In fact it was fourth out of 424 stations in number of passengers served in 2019. Only 34th St.-6th Ave, Grand Central-42nd St, and Times Square-42nd St. served more. I used it many times in my days attending Stuyvesant High School transferring to and from the Lousy Local as we called it. The ugly old Standards disappeared in the famous summer of 1969 and were replaced by former IND R1-9 cars which somehow looked out of place there. |
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| (1552861) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 14:43:25 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by murray1575 on Sat Jul 11 13:38:08 2020. Those R-7/9s were a welcome sight on the Larry. Funny thing, I rode them more times on that line than on all IND routes combined. |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jul 11 15:03:22 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 14:43:25 2020. I agree with Murray. They seemed out of place. |
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| (1552875) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Jul 11 18:50:24 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Joe V on Fri Jul 10 18:59:18 2020. You're from Northport, or visiting people out there?I'm from East Northport originally. Graduated HS there in 1968. |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 18:50:46 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jul 11 15:03:22 2020. The Three Stooges Division has had a reputation for being a burial ground of sorts for the oldest cars in the system, even though it has also had the newest equipment at times, too. |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by zac on Sat Jul 11 23:25:01 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 18:50:46 2020. My thought is that they replaced one old piece of junk with another. They were both old style dimly lit cars that had a smell and made lots of noise. |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jul 11 23:28:28 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by zac on Sat Jul 11 23:25:01 2020. That smell and noise was a big part of my childhood.We all miss aspects of the old NYC subway because honestly we never imagined it could get better. |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 11 23:39:05 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by zac on Sat Jul 11 23:25:01 2020. My IND roller curtains still have that distinct subway aroma when you get up close to them.:) |
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| (1552922) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Jul 12 12:26:04 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 18:04:54 2020. Were the R16s new door motors more reliable then the original door motors? |
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| (1552992) | |
[PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Jul 13 11:10:50 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 10 18:04:54 2020. 
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| (1552998) | |
Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jul 13 13:16:24 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Jul 12 12:26:04 2020. Yes but bu the 80s even these failed alarmingly. |
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| (1553005) | |
Re: [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Jul 13 16:25:58 2020, in response to [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Jul 13 11:10:50 2020. Cool! Still it would've been better if they put the door motors under the seat. |
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| (1553008) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jul 13 16:41:47 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jul 9 19:36:02 2020. I guess they moved 'em to Fresh Pond simply because they had no place else to store a lot of cars long term. They probably just didn't bother to change the signs from the last route they ran on. |
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| (1553012) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 13 17:15:32 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jul 13 16:41:47 2020. They could have found an underground storage but probably found reasons against it. |
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| (1553019) | |
Re: [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 13 19:03:32 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Jul 13 16:25:58 2020. With the design of the cars along with the design of the door motors, they wouldn’t have fit under the seat. |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 13 19:08:16 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 13 17:15:32 2020. The last time I recall O/S cars being stored underground was in late 1976 when the K Line was eliminated , the GG shortened and the R-4s and R-6s were laid up on the S/B exp tk N/O Church Av on the F. I was the AM T/D there at the time and every day a train or two would leave the layup area for CIYd and scrapping. Eventually the R-7s and 9s ended up there as well. |
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| (1553024) | |
Re: [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jul 13 20:06:53 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by randyo on Mon Jul 13 19:03:32 2020. I can hear a voice from the car department now: "I'll MAKE it fit!":) |
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| (1553026) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 13 20:15:18 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by randyo on Mon Jul 13 19:08:16 2020. Graffiti was worse by 1979.Using tracks between Canal and Bowery would work but create problems during cold weather plans. |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Ble-nimx on Mon Jul 13 22:41:54 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Bill Newkirk on Fri Jul 10 19:31:25 2020. They mounted an R38 controller handle and brake vslve but never intended it to even see service as they never installed panties. That R10 came out of AA service and another behind the mockup. Nice. |
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Re: [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Westcode44 on Tue Jul 14 00:22:58 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Jul 13 16:25:58 2020. These are "slim line" R44 Single Door Operators--their designed to be upright-here they appear to be stripped out and removed for surplus. These door operators were and continue to be very reliable.WE-44 |
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| (1553038) | |
Re: [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 14 02:04:28 2020, in response to Re: [PHOTO] R-16 Door Motor...Was: [PHOTOS] Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jul 13 20:06:53 2020. If they could have, they would have. |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Jul 14 15:14:03 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Jul 8 20:19:32 2020. And, of course, shenanigans like this. ;)
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| (1553103) | |
Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jul 14 18:52:38 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Jul 14 15:14:03 2020. It would have been OK if it was running on the N... |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Jul 15 14:02:22 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Jul 14 18:52:38 2020. At the time, the AA and 4 had the same color bullet as the F. This was from a convo about an errant B-div train making it onto the Jerome (4) el. |
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Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard? |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Jul 15 15:10:48 2020, in response to Re: Why would an R-16 LL be in Fresh Pond Yard?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Wed Jul 15 14:02:22 2020. Wasn't that an R17 consist with a trailing R16 (one of those in A service), rammed a station on the Jerome Line ? |
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