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| Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (1536403) | |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 24 10:46:48 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 10:13:36 2020. Byford wasn't here long enough to be declared the best. I think David Gunn was the best because he had the buggest impact in turning the subways around. Anyone old enough remembers. Didn't do much for buses though. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 24 11:23:00 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by The Silence on Thu Jan 23 19:18:56 2020. Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true. Facts, shmacts. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 11:23:15 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 24 10:46:48 2020. I am old enough to remember. I am retired and I operated the equipment in their worst state being hired in late 1979.While David Gunn did turn the subways around by getting the subway cars into a state of good repair, he also permanently removed the Grumman 870 buses. He had more power than Byford ever did because if Andy wanted to do something like that he would have needed the blessings from the governor and MTA chairman and board. Furthermore Gunn increased the beauracracy by getting rid of zone trainmasters and bought on line superintendents who fell all over each other because there was one for each line. Dispatchers became afraid to make decisions because they The "game" they were always second guessed by the superintendent. And at gap stations, they would get into the ear of those dispatchers "if my line has a delay in service, reroute a train from another line, but if another line has a delay in service, don't reroute any of MY trains. I am not lying. More than 1 dispatcher friends have told me this. So in conclusion, all David Gunn did was fix up the subway cats and increase the beauracracy and payroll. No more train dispatchers being in charge of the railroad, making decisions, and telling the lower paid Zone Trainmaster what he did. |
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| (1536518) | |
Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 24 11:23:26 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jan 23 19:21:53 2020. LOL! |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 11:26:32 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 11:23:15 2020. He did not fix the subway cats (from having kittens). But he did oversee the fix up the subway CARS. |
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| (1536520) | |
Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 24 11:27:07 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by mcorivervsaf on Thu Jan 23 18:14:46 2020. I'm not agreeing with him, his theory is as kooky as ever, but I decided to Google it to see if anyone else had ever come up with this theory, and Yes, he's not the first one. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 12:10:05 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 24 11:23:26 2020. It’s beyond LOL |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Fri Jan 24 12:56:12 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 10:13:36 2020. +1,000,000,000 |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 24 13:19:48 2020, in response to Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 23 11:51:41 2020. How sad is it? |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 24 13:21:12 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Jan 23 12:40:52 2020. Hey; the lefty loons and useful idiots that voted him back in wanted to believe the propaganda about Molinaro. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story) |
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Posted by gold_12th on Fri Jan 24 13:45:37 2020, in response to Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 23 11:51:41 2020.  |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 24 13:48:16 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Easy on Fri Jan 24 07:44:53 2020. I think that if you looked at the graph in the data I provided, you'd find that I am not the 2 years that byford was there, there was a slight uptick in the MDBF but no improvement that would constitute turning the system around |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 24 13:50:32 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story), posted by gold_12th on Fri Jan 24 13:45:37 2020. From what I heard, Byford was not even included in the daily MTA AM conference call with the governor. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 24 14:44:24 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Express Rider on Thu Jan 23 23:47:13 2020. Yes. Several failed attempts. In 1981 and 1982; there were comprehensive studies for Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, and Staten Island. All resulted in no route changes except for Staten Island where two bus routes were changed. A Bronx Study was conducted in 1980 where nothing happened either. There were some changes made in 1984. A Northeast Bronx and Southwest Brooklyn Study again in 1993 also resulted in no changes. In the Northeast Bronx, Coop city requested a few changes to the MTA proposals, but the MTA refused to compromise. They gave residents a choice. Accept all the changes as proposed or keep the existing system. Coop City chose the latter.The MTA concluded that all the other studies I mentioned couldn’t result in changes because their budget situation would not allow them to implement the improvements suggested and they would have to wait until it improves. We are still waiting. Aside from possibly the Bronx changes in 1984 that I am really not familiar with (I know there was much route renumbering) , the only successful changes were the Southwest Brooklyn ones I devised at the Department of City Planning in 1978. As far as appointing someone with relevant experience (such as myself with the qualifications you listed) I am afraid it takes more than that. In fact they hired me in 1981 to save the failing Brooklyn Study. They transferred me out before I could complete it and my work was sabotaged by my own boss. So instead of my meaningful proposals, they came up with some nonsense and claimed they didn’t have the funding to implement any changes as I already mentioned. I discussed all of this in the My Qualifications Appendix in my Brooklyn Bus Network Redesign linked in this article. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 24 14:44:31 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 10:13:36 2020. well said, Bill. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Fri Jan 24 14:57:01 2020, in response to Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 23 11:51:41 2020. This is sad news indeed. I had high hopes that he would have been the one to pull the system out of it doldrums. Engaging positively with the folks who work for him was one of his great feats. Plus he actually liked what he was doing here. One of a kind, will be tough to replace. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 24 15:14:45 2020, in response to Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 23 11:51:41 2020. Now that the person who challenged NYCT to improve and once again become a world class agency is out of the way, the Governor can go back to ignoring it and be at least free of internal criticisms. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 16:28:01 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Easy on Fri Jan 24 15:14:45 2020. I don’t think he wants to ignore it. He seems like he doesn’t want to share the platform with anyone. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story) |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 16:34:24 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story), posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 24 13:50:32 2020. There was a recent meeting about improvements about subway train speeds which Byford was also excluded from. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Jan 24 16:43:01 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 16:28:01 2020. So before Byford Cuomo was being as proactive as he is now? |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 24 17:06:47 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Express Rider on Thu Jan 23 23:47:13 2020. Degrees don’t necessarily reflect on the actual competence of the person to do the job but they often help a person to get that job. A few years ago I was interviewed for a upper level managerial job in Operations Planning. The interviewer mentioned naturally that I was not the only candidate for the position to which I replied that unlike the other candidate I had a college degree. Tye interviewer responded that a college degree didn’t make her better at her job. Unfortunately I neglected to mention to her that while the degree might not have made her better at the jobs the existence of the degree did open the doors that enabled her to get those jobs. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 24 17:42:33 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 11:23:15 2020. I agree about the zone trainmasters since there were only as many zone trainmasters as there are currently district general supts today. Around the time that zone trainmasters were being phased out and the “line supt” concept was being introduced, the MTA was crying poor mouth abut having trouble meeting its budget. If the SSSA union and the OTA (trainmasters’) assn had put their heads together and run a full page ad showing that the MTA wouldn’t have any budget problems if it wasn’t in the process of creating a bunch of overpaid so called “managerial” positions the upside down pyramid of redundant managers vs other employees might not have taken place. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 24 18:21:42 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by jan k. lorenzen on Fri Jan 24 14:57:01 2020. The next person tapped for the NYCT presidency should refuse to accept the job unless given carte blanche to operate the system as he/she sees fit without any outside interference from the governor whatsoever. Of course, egos being what they are I’m sure someone will be found for the position who won't make such a demand but it would be nice! |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 24 20:38:15 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 24 07:16:32 2020. Exactly what I have been saying for the past forty years.From 2003 to 2006 when NYMTC spent $6 million for a comprehensive southern Brooklyn Transportation study, I proposed about thirty bus route changes that NYMTC put in their draft report. When we asked the MTA to test them using their simulation model they claimed to be using, they admitted that the model was useless for such a study and was useful only to test regional trends. Then Larry Fleischer who was director of MTA Planning (not NYCT Planning) made the bold statement at a public meeting that no one tells the MTA how to plan. Regarding rail improvements, the MTA stated they wouldn't consider any rail expansion until the 2 Av Subway was fully completed. So the Triboro RX was also rejected. Since the MTA was represented on NYMTCs board, and NYMTC relied on the MTA for their funding my bus proposals and all the rail proposals were removed from NYMTC's final report. The final report also ruled out ferries as being too costly, So six million dollars of our tax money was wasted so that the following recommendations could be made: clearer truck routes, more pedestrianways and bike routes, and an overpass at Kings Plaza (I suggested an underpass) No bus, subway or rail suggestions and three years of wasted time for all the participants who attended the meetings every six weeks for three years. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jan 24 21:32:04 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 24 11:27:07 2020. Yes:And I think that fear did in fact play a large part in why there was no strike in 2002. Bush, knowing how the GOP had benefited from the 1994 strike would have likely issued an Executive Order the way Clinton didn't to prevent the GOP from suffering the same fate (and GW Bush did have credibility here as a former owner of the Texas Rangers). |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 21:32:40 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 24 20:38:15 2020. An overpass at King’s Plaza. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 21:36:10 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jan 24 21:32:04 2020. Lord Have Mercy |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 21:39:31 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 21:32:40 2020. *? |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 24 21:59:12 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 21:39:31 2020. Avenue U going over Flatbush Avenue. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 22:52:11 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 24 21:59:12 2020. Are they going to construct this? |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 25 06:48:56 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by randyo on Fri Jan 24 18:21:42 2020. And as said, I think Cuomo feels he has to be that way to keep certain donors happy because he badly wants the fourth term as Governor his father was denied in 1994. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 25 07:17:01 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 25 06:48:56 2020. Which has nothing to do with Byford or the L train. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 25 07:42:28 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Jan 24 21:32:04 2020. You are getting into OT Chat territory, because this has nothing to do with Byford's competence and Cuomo's ego. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 25 08:12:11 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 22:52:11 2020. It was never funded so I guess not. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 25 08:39:41 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 11:23:15 2020. He was greatly criticized for removing the Grummans. Many felt it was unjustified. Many went to NJ Transit where they operated without problems. He may have jumped the gun on that one, if you don’t mind the pun.Regarding bureaucracy, he may have increased it and it may have not been a good thing. He certainly brought order to it by intoducing the staff summary sheet still in use today. That lays out all the levels of command needed to sign off on any major change usually se by dollar amount that decides which changes have to go as high as the Board for approval. It is a a structured set of color coded two to six pages with questions that must be answered and alternatives that must be considered and lists all affected departments that must sign off. . Before that everything was a total mess. Each department would just write a memo of justification and make any change they wanted to consulting with some but not all affected departments. Every department had their own format and no one had to look at alternatives. Departments were unsure of whose approval was necessary. There was no tracking system Memos would get lost. It was just a zoo. He had used the system in Philadelphia and saw it work there. It was one of the first things he did as President in 1984 and no one since has changed it. He didn’t care that much about the workers because years later it was learned that many who were involved in graffiti removal developed cancer because they were using dangerous chemicals without proper protection which the union had to fight for. So he wasn’t perfect, but neither is anyone. He started the G Overhaul program or GOH, (mistakenly called General Overhaul Program by many) that brought the MDBF up from 6,000 miles to over 100,000 miles with the help of new car purchases. That alone marks him for greatness. His successor Alan Kiepper didn’t have an ounce of innovativeness and succeeded by merely keeping Gunn’s programs in place. He also was not a people person like Gunn was. I attended monthly meetings with Kiepper, so I saw him in action. He just listened to everything he was told, never contributing anything of his own. That’s not what you want in a leader. Byford did not have the chance to do a tenth as much as Gunn but could have been greater if given the chance by Cuomo. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 25 08:43:54 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jan 24 16:28:01 2020. The next President will be low profile and just follow orders. We can expect no change in MTA culture with business as usual and the system continuing to decline with them making all the wrong decisions. Sorry to paint such a bleak picture, but that is how I see things now. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 25 10:17:51 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 25 08:43:54 2020. In other words, an ass kissing yes man. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jan 25 10:32:33 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 25 10:17:51 2020. +10,000 |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story) |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Jan 25 10:44:47 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story), posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 16:34:24 2020. The governor is the real Freddo but thinks that he's the godfather. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story) |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 25 10:57:49 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story), posted by Train Dude on Sat Jan 25 10:44:47 2020. I’m smart Michael |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 25 14:53:15 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 25 06:48:56 2020. However being too overbearing might just cost Cuomo that 4th term he wants so bad. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jan 25 15:05:01 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by jan k. lorenzen on Fri Jan 24 14:57:01 2020. As I said elsewhere, Byford wouldn't have run for Governor; so what is the prince afraid of? If he had let Byford really fix things, then he would look like a genius for standing with him. Shortsighted and stupid. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Sat Jan 25 15:12:29 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 10:13:36 2020. I agree with this post, we we're saying the same thing about that "60 Minutes" piece at the job yesterday.... |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by SubBus aka ENY Local on Sat Jan 25 16:44:08 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 11:23:15 2020. Bill, it's worse now with management.... |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 25 17:32:54 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 24 10:13:36 2020. "I wish Andy nothing but the best in the future."Tell him that yourself. Can you imagine how many e-mails he got of a similar nature. And he is managing to answer them. He answered my friend's email this morning and mine this afternoon. A real mensch. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jan 26 02:56:17 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 25 07:42:28 2020. I was laying the groundwork and it after that sailed that way.Getting back on topic: Yes, Cuomo's ego played a big part, we know that. The problem as I said is, I believe he feels he has to do everything his donors want to make sure he gets that fourth term that eluded his father, and that likely includes (mostly) running the MTA the way his donors want. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story) |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jan 26 02:56:56 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. (NY Daily News front page story), posted by Train Dude on Sat Jan 25 10:44:47 2020. Or more likely his donors are. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 26 07:10:56 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jan 26 02:56:17 2020. His donors don't give a crap about MTA. Cuomo has been robbing MTA for pet projects such as Lake Placid trails and Moynihan Concourse. |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 26 10:29:50 2020, in response to Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 23 11:51:41 2020. Why can't the MTA keep anyone in that job for very long? |
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Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 26 12:05:48 2020, in response to Re: Sad News: Byford resigns for real., posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 26 10:29:50 2020. The average is about three years but some have stayed longer like David Gunn.Sometimes they are offered better positions elsewhere. Most of the time I think it's because they see the writing on the wall predicting a bleak future, like ridership decreasing, budget deficit increasing, MDBF decreasing, huge capital projects needed and they can't get the funding for them, etc. They want to get out before their name becomes associated with failure. They don't want to be remembered as the person who ruined the subway and bus system. |
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