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| The end of trolleys on the Route 15 (1535749) | |
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| (1535749) | |
The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jan 17 17:48:47 2020 Bye-byeIt's coming to an end, Septa only has 8 usable PCC-II streetcars . They can't get the parts to fix them. We'll see what happens on Feb. 22nd, 2020.IF a trolley never runs on the new tracks from the I-95 Revive project, PENN-DOT might come back and sue Septa for that money, I would think! |
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| (1535750) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15? |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 17 17:51:43 2020, in response to The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jan 17 17:48:47 2020. Yeah, because a YouTube video with computerized voices is a reliable source. |
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| (1535752) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 17 17:59:17 2020, in response to The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jan 17 17:48:47 2020. Hey, Brookville is in PA. If they can fix PCCs abused inSF... |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1535758) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 17 18:11:31 2020, in response to The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jan 17 17:48:47 2020. Well, now we know what Leslie Richards is about. |
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| (1535759) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 (Philadelphia) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 17 18:11:54 2020, in response to The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jan 17 17:48:47 2020. Well, now we know what Leslie Richards is about. |
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| (1535803) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by The silence on Fri Jan 17 22:31:13 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 17 17:59:17 2020. Who do you think rebuilt the ones Septa is supposedly losing... |
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| (1535810) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by mack c-49 on Fri Jan 17 23:12:23 2020, in response to The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jan 17 17:48:47 2020. Can't get the parts? What a load on nonsense! That's more an excuse than a reason. Parts can be made if they are needed. Walmart doesn't keep them in stock. Septa needs to just fix the PCCs and stop making excuses, upgrading them if necessary. |
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| (1535817) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 18 02:52:48 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by mack c-49 on Fri Jan 17 23:12:23 2020. I definitely agree. Even if actual PCC parts aren’t available, I have no doubt that parts from newer state of the art cars like even Philly’s Kawasakis can be adapted to be used in the PCCs. |
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| (1535818) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jan 18 02:57:23 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by The silence on Fri Jan 17 22:31:13 2020. Yes I know Brookville did the "II's" exactly why they can do so again. |
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| (1535823) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jan 18 04:41:38 2020, in response to The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jan 17 17:48:47 2020. Another date for the last PCC-IIs is January 25th.So that is a month , earlier. There is a small group of trolley fans riding, Monday ,the 21st, before the temporary bus replacement takes effect.There is always hope, this old article. New trolleys for Septa |
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| (1535831) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 18 08:20:19 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jan 18 04:41:38 2020. My short term memory seems to remember some Canadian city retiring some trolleys.Mmmmm! |
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| (1535838) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by chuchubob on Sat Jan 18 08:59:48 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 18 02:52:48 2020. These aren't PCCs. They're LRVs in PCC bodies. I was told that they were designed to last for fifteen years. They almost did.Also, because of local political bickering in Philly, the Brockville warranty expired before the cars entered revenue service. |
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| (1535842) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jan 18 09:17:14 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by chuchubob on Sat Jan 18 08:59:48 2020. Thank you, chuchubob. This was one of the issues . The standoffNeighborhood Opposition Delays Trolley Service In the decade since Callowhill Depot was made "temporary bus," residents of two blocks of 59th Street have grown accustomed to using the western curb lane of the street to park their cars. Because the northbound rails on 59th Street are located in the exact center of the street, streetcars cannot pass without obstructing southbound traffic. So in order for streetcar service to resume from the newly renovated Callowhill Depot, one of two things must happen. Either the painted centerline of 59th Street must be moved to the side to include the rails (and parking prohibited on the west side of the street), or 59th Street be made one-way north. The City of Philadelphia is willing to do niether. Incredibly, the return of streetcars to Girard Avenue, for which years of planning and $82 million has been spent, has been in limbo since June 2004. Update September 4, 2005: Trolley service on Route 15 Girard Avenue resumes. I rode the line during the first month of operation, and met a marvelous female operator , we became , "buddys". |
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| (1535877) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by jan k. lorenzen on Sat Jan 18 16:18:09 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 18 02:52:48 2020. There's not a lot of original PCC left on the SEPTA cars, basically Brookville took the SEPTA PCC body shells, rebuilt/modified those, threw away the rest and installed all new running gear and electrical in those rebuilt body shells. But maybe its those recycled Volvo bus seats... |
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| (1535879) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jan 18 16:59:36 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Sat Jan 18 16:18:09 2020. But maybe its those recycled Volvo bus seats... That's it ,those bus seats, it was cursed from the onset!!!! :(:( |
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| (1535882) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15? |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Sat Jan 18 18:27:12 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15?, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 17 17:51:43 2020. LOL |
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| (1535883) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by The silence on Sat Jan 18 18:40:07 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 18 08:20:19 2020. Can you regauge a CLRV to Pennsylvania Trolley Gauge? |
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| (1535884) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jan 18 18:49:19 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15?, posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 17 17:51:43 2020. Hey guys, It's more official than you think. I'm waiting to see if I can pass the information on from a Septa management employee that the last day is Jan. 25th. |
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| (1535901) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15? |
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Posted by The Silence on Sun Jan 19 00:59:08 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15?, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Jan 18 18:49:19 2020. If it's "more official than we think", why has no official statement been made yet? that's the confusing part. Why are there no news reports. Why is this just whispers on the internet if this is supposedly happening in a week? |
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| (1535902) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by The Silence on Sun Jan 19 01:03:20 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by jan k. lorenzen on Sat Jan 18 16:18:09 2020. Even then, who builds rail equipment for a 15 year lifespan? That's what you expect from a bus. |
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| (1535917) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15? |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Jan 19 03:59:02 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15?, posted by The Silence on Sun Jan 19 00:59:08 2020. As per the Friends of Phila Trolley facebook page:The official last day for PCC II operation will be Saturday, January 25, 2020, at the end of the night SEPTA route 15 will become “Temporary Bus” starting on Sunday. The reason for this is mechanic problems with the cars and upcoming construction on I-95 on the overpass over Frankford Avenue. At this time, 11 PCC II’s are operating. This information is subject to change. Again, we'll check the tracker next Sunday, to see if it's all buses! |
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| (1535918) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jan 19 07:35:37 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by The Silence on Sun Jan 19 01:03:20 2020. Even then, who builds rail equipment for a 15 year lifespan? That's what you expect from a bus.Maybe SEPTA was thinking ahead for when the K cars would be replaced and order new equipment for the #15. Just like the GOH program on the NYCT when the R 26-36's were GOH'd. Extend their lifespan before the new tech trains would replace them. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1535920) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Jan 19 07:49:12 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by The Silence on Sun Jan 19 01:03:20 2020. Trolleys and Trackless trolleys last 18-20 years. Septa's TT's, are getting a mid-life overhaul , the bulk of them came in during 2008. Too bad they can't fix the PCC-IIs, or don't want to fix them. |
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| (1535934) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on SEPTA Route 15 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 19 11:21:13 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15?, posted by The Silence on Sun Jan 19 00:59:08 2020. Why would there be news reports? |
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| (1535935) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jan 19 11:42:18 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15?, posted by The Silence on Sun Jan 19 00:59:08 2020. Only two PCC-IIs are running on the 15 today, 2325 and 2331, out of 16 assigned to that route. All other assigned vehicles are buses. As recently as November, every vehicle regularly scheduled to run on the 15 was a PCC, with the occasional bus put-in.The end is near. |
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| (1535955) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 19 18:22:29 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by The silence on Sat Jan 18 18:40:07 2020. I don’t see why not. Cars from other cities are regauged for various railway museums. |
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| (1535958) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 19 18:32:11 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by chuchubob on Sat Jan 18 08:59:48 2020. Well, LRVs in PCC bodies is exactly my point. If the PCC bodies are in good condition, the there is no reason why all existing PCC bodies can't be retrofitted with state of the art components. That also applies to retrofitting GG1s with state of the art components and removing the environmentally unfriendly parts like the asbestos etc. |
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| (1535964) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15? |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 19 18:57:46 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15?, posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Jan 19 03:59:02 2020. Beware of “temporary” changes! |
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| (1535990) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by The i man on Sun Jan 19 23:39:54 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sun Jan 19 07:35:37 2020. I guess that I’m going to Philly next Saturday |
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| (1536005) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jan 20 06:10:46 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by randyo on Sun Jan 19 18:22:29 2020. You would think it would be easier to regauge a car from wide gauge to standard gauge than the other way around. |
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| (1536011) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Jan 20 07:13:30 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by The silence on Sat Jan 18 18:40:07 2020. Can you regauge a CLRV to Pennsylvania Trolley Gauge?You probably could at great expense. The CLRV's are high floor and all new LRV's must be low floor to comply with ADA regs. Bill Newkirk |
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| (1536024) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 20 09:24:34 2020, in response to The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Jan 17 17:48:47 2020. There is a group riding today, I hope they don't have to wait a long time for a trolley.That's why it is good to use the Septa tracker. Hopefully it is telling the truth. Septa Route 15. There are 6 buses and 4 PCC-II's out there , presently. |
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| (1536036) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Mon Jan 20 10:58:22 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 20 09:24:34 2020. I am going to try making it Saturday, unless SEPTA's plans change. |
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| (1536057) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 20 11:58:09 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Mon Jan 20 10:58:22 2020. Best of luck to you. |
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| (1536061) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 20 12:16:33 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 20 11:58:09 2020. The trolleys on the 15 and an interior shot from the group riding today. You can see part of that miserable wheelchair lift .Route 15 -1A Route 15-2A |
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| (1536070) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 20 13:19:55 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Jan 20 07:13:30 2020. SF Muni is in delivery of new high floor LRVs which either use full high platforms as does LA Metro, or strategically placed short high platforms or lifts on older parts of street operations as do the F Market vintage PCCs. |
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| (1536100) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 20 16:30:32 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jan 20 06:10:46 2020. That makes sense but maybe someone out there with experience with museum operations has some more detailed info on it. |
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| (1536134) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Mon Jan 20 20:34:27 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 20 12:16:33 2020. Nice. |
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| (1536137) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 20 20:56:51 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 20 12:16:33 2020. Chuck, As I have not visited Philly in years, what makes the lift miserable? I ask because with a wheelchair user in my family the issue is 'personal'. |
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| (1536142) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Jan 20 22:29:00 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 20 20:56:51 2020. It's the best they could do to get a wheelchair lift into a 1940s vehicle which was never intended to have one. The lift is at the center door, but it is cumbersome and complicated for the operator to set up and use. The total cycle time (unlock, rotate, deploy, lift, disengage, rotate, lock) takes several minutes. Ironically, these lifts actually make the PCC-II cars the only ADA-compliant trolleys in Philadelphia. |
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| (1536143) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 20 23:09:55 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Jan 20 22:29:00 2020. Okay. They could have done mini highs, ramps to highs, off board lifts. All of these have been done in cities near to me in the SF Bay area) Bottom line, ADAIS 30 years old give or take and actually, as I have seen for years, nominally ablep ersons--parents w/ toddlers in strollers, folks using a laundry/grocery cart to go shopping, et make use of all of these options making the most of "public" transit. |
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| (1536145) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by The silence on Mon Jan 20 23:21:27 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 20 23:09:55 2020. The ADA is 30The Kawasaki cars are edging 40. |
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| (1536149) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 21 03:04:40 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Jan 20 23:09:55 2020. JayZeeBMT, explained it fairly well. I think there is video of it, somewhere. My operator buddy got it down to 2 .5 minutes, loading the passenger and back into the operators seat.Same for discharging the passenger, 2.5 minutes. So 5 minutes, total kills the schedule.That same operator almost lost a finger working that lift, she needed surgery for it.She retried after that. |
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| (1536150) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 21 03:53:12 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 21 03:04:40 2020. She retired after that. |
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| (1536179) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jan 21 17:12:16 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Jan 20 22:29:00 2020. Does it take any longer than the rear door lifts on the RTS buses? |
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| (1536186) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 21 17:56:45 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by randyo on Tue Jan 21 17:12:16 2020. Yes, it does. The rear stepwell on an RTS becomes the lift platform; on a PCC, the operator has to unlock and manually set the lift up. |
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| (1536192) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 21 19:46:37 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 21 17:56:45 2020. Thanks, JayZeeBMT. I wish there was a video of that thing in action.Nobody thinks it is a pain in the neck to use. |
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| (1536193) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 21 19:47:56 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 21 19:46:37 2020. Only 4 can pass inspection |
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| (1536195) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Chicago44 on Tue Jan 21 20:22:23 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Jan 20 12:16:33 2020. What about using the Kawasaki cars on Route 15 on weekends. Has there been any consideration of this. |
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| (1536198) | |
Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Jan 21 21:04:33 2020, in response to Re: The end of trolleys on the Route 15, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 21 19:47:56 2020. Bringing them back to a state of good repair......blah blah blah.If the cars are rusting, that certainly questions the structural integrity of the cars. SEPTA dropped the ball with this because they should have kept on top of that. My sad prediction is that they'll say the cars are too far gone and trolley service will have to wait till they can piggyback new equipment with the eventuality subway/surface order. |
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