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| (1526149) | |
Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Mon Oct 7 10:41:16 2019 Ck out, 2 more months to release.https://qns.com/story/2019/10/01/study-of-old-rockaway-rail-lines-revival-back-on-track/ |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 7 13:19:04 2019, in response to Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Mon Oct 7 10:41:16 2019. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Oct 7 16:28:32 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 7 13:19:04 2019. Endless study but the billions of dollars needed doesn't exist. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 7 16:44:44 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 7 16:28:32 2019. Billions need that did not exist magically appeared to get ESA done with its multiple over-runs. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 16:58:17 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 7 16:44:44 2019. Correct. Simply put, If its wanted bad enough (ESA & #7 West Side extention e.g.) the $$$ is magically found. Apparently, there isin't enough fire in the belly to get the $$$ to resurrect the Rockaway Line. If there was, the line would have been reopened years ago. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 7 18:28:02 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Oct 7 16:58:17 2019. If it[’]s wanted bad enough (ESA & #7 West Side exten[s]ion e.g.) the $$$ is magically foundThat is, wanted by the powers that be. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 7 19:47:43 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 7 18:28:02 2019. If Andrew Cuomo wanted to do it, the Rockaway line would spring back to life as fast as the LIRR third track is being constructed (they are actually going at what appears to me to be a furious pace, especially compared to, say, East Side Access or the Second Avenue Subway). |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Oct 7 20:14:18 2019, in response to Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Mon Oct 7 10:41:16 2019. Be nice if they’d actually tell us how they pulled the number $8 billion out of their asses. Because that’s an obscenely high amount of money needed to restore Rockaway, even after 57 years of non-use and neglect. For a r-o-w that’s entirely outdoors and grade-separated? |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Mon Oct 7 20:18:16 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 7 19:47:43 2019. I'm curious as to why the third track is going so freaking fast. Could be good, could be bad... |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 7 20:54:14 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Oct 7 20:14:18 2019. Buying off NIMBYs and local politicians.Also killing the stupid linear park idea. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Oct 7 21:12:23 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 7 20:54:14 2019. Linear park between Forest Park and Rego Park is fine. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 7 21:22:29 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Oct 7 21:12:23 2019. No, Forest Park is the park. Put a station in the park, and people can take the new Rockaway line to it. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Oct 7 21:42:19 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 7 21:22:29 2019. Well rail service would be better. I don't see it.I see much longer articulated buses on Woodhaven in years to come. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 7 22:05:16 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Oct 7 20:14:18 2019. $8 billion? Maybe it's time to get volunteers to do at least some of the work. I bet a dozen or two SubChat or Railroad.net volunteers would be happy at least to clear the RoW for bragging rights and a picture on someone's blog or on NYCSubway.org. I know, poison ivy and NIMBY's. But as I always like to say, "It's a dirty job but someone has to do it." $8 billion? |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by sloth on Mon Oct 7 23:49:49 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Oct 7 20:14:18 2019. Connecting it to anything other than the LIRR main on the north end could cost that much. And the stations would all have to be ADA compliant, yes? |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Oct 8 05:46:36 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by nasadowsk on Mon Oct 7 20:18:16 2019. Probably because its needed because of the ridership on the Main Line. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 8 05:55:59 2019, in response to Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Mon Oct 7 10:41:16 2019. It’ll never be built. All that will happen is that the squabbling over the line will continue for decades and it will continue to lie fallow. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Oct 8 06:03:51 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 8 05:55:59 2019. You never know. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 8 10:44:57 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Oct 7 20:14:18 2019. That's what I think- no ROW acquisition, no tunneling.... Yes, I realize that it would need to be rebuilt from the embankment on up, but this was doable work in 1908...why not now? |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Oct 8 14:13:08 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 8 10:44:57 2019. If it's going to be connected to the Queens Blvd line (likely), that's a significant amount of tunneling. As for rebuilding the embankment, there are now lots of people under and around it. The environmental impact (and probably lawsuits) will be considerable. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:02:05 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by sloth on Mon Oct 7 23:49:49 2019. From what Tunnel Rat and others with similar interests in mostly completed but never used subway infrastructures have observed, the tunnels are in place for connecting the Qns Blvd Line to the Rocky Bch ROW so in at least that particular area the only thing that would be necessary is the installation of track switches and signals. I also don’t expect that the 4 tk ares of the line will be completely restored but that the entire ROW between Whitepot Jct and Liberty Jct will be 2 tk. As for ADA compliance since any new stations on the line will be above ground, ADA facilities like ramps and/or elevators would not be too difficult or costly to provide. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:15:34 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by 3-9 on Tue Oct 8 14:13:08 2019. If you check my post about the tunneling, you should see that very little if any new tunneling has to take place. As for lawsuits, there are probably applicable federal railroad laws that should be able to deal with any of them in short order. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 8 18:16:54 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 7 19:47:43 2019. TPZ Bridge happened rather fast too.3rd track Main Line has no condemnations, which made it faster, though permanent design defects around Mineola. The LIRR never got upset about fucking the Oyster Bay line anyway. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Oct 8 19:23:21 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Oct 8 05:55:59 2019. You're probably right, but with anything in the NYC metro area, you never say never. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Oct 8 20:40:47 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:02:05 2019. But how much tunnel is actually there? Is it a full two-way tunnel, a one-way connecting ramp or just a stub?They’d also have to tunnel under the LIRR Main Line and surface to a portal near Fleet Street. Even then, $2 billion for the tunnel is obscene. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by jailhousedoc on Wed Oct 9 01:31:27 2019, in response to Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Mon Oct 7 10:41:16 2019. The Winfield- Seabury line was supposed to diverge from Queens Blvd. at Roosevelt Ave. / Jackson Heights, but just past 63rd Drive station there are bell mouth openings in the tunnel for a possible connection to the LIRR ROW at White Pot junction - is this being looked at to revive the Rockaway line ? |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 9 07:16:34 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Oct 8 20:40:47 2019. I agree. Are we sure the amount of tunnel isn't more than just a couple of car lengths of turnout? |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 9 07:18:29 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by jailhousedoc on Wed Oct 9 01:31:27 2019. I was kind of hoping the linkup would be with both the express and local tracks, but that would radically increase the costs. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Oct 9 09:27:31 2019, in response to Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Mon Oct 7 10:41:16 2019. The follow-up. If it ever happens in our lifetime...Rockaway Beach Rail Reboot Study Finally Lands [The City]. -William A. Padron ["Woodhaven"] |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 9 10:27:44 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Oct 9 09:27:31 2019. Either way, the potential price is light years away from the $250 million estimate first mentioned in a 2001 report commissioned by the MTA.That's $366 million in 2019 dollars. Corruption drives it 18 times higher. |
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THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 9 15:13:04 2019, in response to Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Mon Oct 7 10:41:16 2019. Dated Sept. 21, 2018 |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 9 15:18:27 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:02:05 2019. The study, just released, says they will have to build new tunnels there. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 9 16:03:01 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Oct 8 20:40:47 2019. It’s just a stub. Substantial new tunnel would have to be built. |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Oct 9 16:06:46 2019, in response to THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 9 15:13:04 2019. An interesting yet long read. My take on this is the NYCT use of the RBB would be better than the LIRR. I can't see service to Howard Beach/JFK and the Resorts Casino being the draw for LIRR service since the NYCT would be duplicating it.However I find this interesting: A new NYCT subway “Woodhaven” Station will be centered over Atlantic Avenue with two side platforms for RBB service and potential customer transfer to LIRR Service on the Atlantic Branch below When ESA opens for service and the Atlantic Branch is reduced to shuttle, reopening the Woodhaven Station (Atlantic Br.) would make some sense. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 9 16:17:52 2019, in response to Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Oct 9 16:06:46 2019. what do the abbreviations RBB and ESA stand for?these are probably for commonly known routes/projects, so I apologize for my lack of knowledge. I just haven't come across them, and there have been times when I haven't read the Board for awhile. Thanks! |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 9 16:20:54 2019, in response to Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 9 16:17:52 2019. LOL! |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Oct 9 16:32:20 2019, in response to Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 9 16:17:52 2019. what do the abbreviations RBB and ESA stand for?ESA - LIRR East Side Access (GCT) RBB -Rockaway Beach Branch Bill Newkirk |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 9 16:59:38 2019, in response to Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Oct 9 16:32:20 2019. Oh yeah, ESA how could I forget that? |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 9 17:01:28 2019, in response to Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 9 16:20:54 2019. well, you can forget stuff, whether you have a brain freeze or just plain forget for whatever reason. it just happens.... |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 9 17:05:27 2019, in response to Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Oct 9 16:06:46 2019. It would make more sense if the Atlantic Branch was part of the NYCT system.Same fare,in system transfer,or track connectivity. May not be much at first, but opening new faculties in transit starved neighborhoods is a first step in a long road back to what we Use to have have. |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 9 17:08:35 2019, in response to Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Express Rider on Wed Oct 9 17:01:28 2019. I don't see the funny what you said.Maybe Morris is an immortal Super mutant, with cognitive abilities far beyond mortal man. |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 17:09:46 2019, in response to Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 9 16:20:54 2019. I wouldn't know RBB except if the context is the Rockaways. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 9 17:12:00 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 9 07:16:34 2019. From what Tunnelrat says, it's more than a little stub tunnel. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 9 17:15:27 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 9 15:18:27 2019. But not much.This was also a hot topic during the 70s.. The NIMBY folk didn't want a tunnel through the park..or elevated structure. Basically,they didn't want Anything.. |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Oct 9 17:22:51 2019, in response to Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by AlM on Wed Oct 9 17:09:46 2019. Yes, but it's clear from the context in the post. ESA I can understand not knowing. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 9 17:36:05 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by Edwards! on Wed Oct 9 17:12:00 2019. According the the Tunnel Rat, with the possible exception of some overgrowth in the way, both tunnels extend all the way to the former LIRR ROW. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 9 17:54:32 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by 3-9 on Wed Oct 9 07:18:29 2019. For some reason, both the Winfield and Whitepot bellmouths were designed with access only to/from the local tks only with no provision for express service. Despite the perceived superiority of IND subway designs over the IRT and BMT, the city planners seem to have dropped the ball in several areas like the ones in Queens and the provision for the Worth St subway which only could have been accessed from the lcl tks S/O Canal St. |
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Re: THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Oct 9 17:59:48 2019, in response to THE STUDY RELEASED-Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 9 15:13:04 2019. I feel the corridor is definitely better served by rail than a park. Although as the study states, it *is* possible to incorporate park elements in various locations along the ROW, giving the best of both worlds.The question then becomes: Which is better for everyone involved? Activating the Rockaway Beach Branch for NYCT Subway use? Or activating it for the LIRR? LIRR use would be simpler and cheaper overall. As the study states, Whitepot Junction can already support returning the tracks to use, and the ROW there is already wide enough for two additional tracks between Rego Park and Woodside, roughly. Building stations without the need for fare control access would also be easier. The ability to utilize the existing portal connection to the Atlantic Avenue Branch is also a plus, as well the reopening of the old Woodhaven Station on said branch. One of the limitations, though, would be the reconfiguration of the NYCT ROW south of Liberty Avenue, to permit both Subway and LIRR to run side-by-side to Howard Beach. Another would be the overall lack of service on the line, as the LIRR doesn't run frequent headways to begin with, and the cost of a LIRR ticket would likely be a deterrent for many people. Then again, with a lack of other speedy transit options in those areas, people are likely driving, or paying extra for car service or multiple transfers anyway. NYCT use would allow for greater operational flexibility in terms of service to the Rockaways, as the new subway line could connect legitimately to the existing (A) line south of Liberty Avenue. This could allow for all (A) service to go to Rockaway Park, and a new service to provide more trains to Far Rockaway. All this extra service would also make Howard Beach a more acceptable option for travelers taking the AirTrain from JFK Airport, which is currently a 15-20 minute wait even during the day. A free out-of-system transfer could be provided to the (J) train's 104 Street Station, if a direct (elevated) transfer passage would not be feasible. The new line would definitely have more frequent service than the LIRR option. One of the biggest detriments to the Subway plan is the need to bore new tunnels from Whitepot Junction to Queens Boulevard, which as always, would be prohibitively expensive, despite being only a few blocks long. The disruption to nearby buildings and Queens Boulevard Line service would likely render this plan dead on arrival. And although the activation of CBTC on the Queens Boulevard Line would definitely help in this regard, it may be difficult to come up with a service plan that permits the added service necessary for the Rockaway Beach Line, without taking away needed service through to Forest Hills. And since the existing Rockaway bellmouths are designed to only connect with the local tracks, it wouldn't exactly be a speedy ride into Manhattan, unless they transfer at Jackson Heights - Roosevelt Avenue, or an entirely new interlocking be created to permit these Rockaway Beach trains to switch to the express track at 63 Drive - Rego Park, which would definitely impact existing (E) and (F) service. It's a hard sell either way. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Oct 9 18:00:47 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by jailhousedoc on Wed Oct 9 01:31:27 2019. Yes, it's in the report to use the existing bellmouths north of 63 Drive - Rego Park. |
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Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 9 18:13:23 2019, in response to Re: Study of old Rockaway rail line’s revival back on track, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 9 17:36:05 2019. Not what the map in the study shows. |
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