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| Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns (1512771) | |
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| (1512995) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 16 20:12:44 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 15 15:29:49 2019. Pretty much.Basically why the ENY Shops dealt with basic R16 and 27/30s types all those years. Common body,common components. |
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| (1512996) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 16 20:40:46 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed May 15 15:41:41 2019. I appreciate your experience.My basic knowledge of car assignments was from Some visual reference, riding various latchups..and going to work with my dad during the early days after Chrystie st. I personally rode an R38 M TRAIN in the dead of winter.. |
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| (1512997) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu May 16 20:43:29 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 16 20:12:44 2019. right. in an extended example, when the Western Pacific decided to try some GE diesels, they specified re-use of the trucks from the trade in FTs. Thus, all of their diesels would have the same traction motors, axles, gears, brakes, etc.--no new spare parts for anything below the frame of the unit. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1513002) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 17 02:49:42 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 15 13:02:32 2019. This is where I think the NTTs should have been ordered in the married pair (or even single) arrangement- so they could operate anywhere on the IND/BMT, moved between subdivisions as necessary. Now, not only do we need the shorter sets for the Eastern, they're also using them on the C, and 5-car sets on the A. Keeping those units, which look identical, separate will be a chore indeed. Sooner or later, a 10-car C or 8-car A will hit the road by mistake. I suppose that's not as big a deal as a 10-car J/L/M, but still an inefficiency.I guess the East has been, even if unofficially, its own division since the advent of the 75-foot cars. I'm just glad they didn't use that as a justification for abandonment-"we can't get new cars for it. too bad. Take the shiny modern B98 from Crescent Street to Essex". |
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| (1513003) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 17 03:01:26 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Express Rider on Wed May 15 20:24:54 2019. nycsubway.org has 2 pictures showing exactly that- one at Gates Avenue, one at Broadway-Myrtle. |
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| (1513009) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri May 17 03:57:50 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by randyo on Wed May 15 21:46:38 2019. The TR-16s eventually got the same sign tratment as the R-32s but with the addition of the proper side signs.Yep, and the R-16 side signs were in lowercase, which I found cool. I've always hated block lettering in destination signs, train or bus. And the 16s had the route signs in the color of the (1967) bullet, which was really cool. Alas, now we have electronic signs, which of course are more practical, as they can be reprogrammed to account for service/route changes, but means back to block lettering. Oh well. |
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| (1513010) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 17 03:58:22 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by murray1575 on Thu May 16 16:52:09 2019. I liked them from the very beginning. Their blue doors and green backlit side signs were very appealing. |
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| (1513012) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 17 04:00:25 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 16 20:12:44 2019. I'm willing to bet that the R-16s would have held up much better if they had spent their entire careers on the Three Stooges Division. The ENY folks knew how to take care of them. |
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| (1513027) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 17 08:42:01 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 17 04:00:25 2019. Oh yeah.Once they left ENY,those cars went downhill faster than shit in the rain. Queens could not handle them,nor could Coney Island. |
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| (1513031) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 17 09:03:09 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by randyo on Thu May 16 12:24:36 2019. The TA should have purchased more...intead of going with SLC.The 38s were good looking, but rode lousy. Loud noisy rough riding..bucked like crazy. Can't understand WHY 2 contract with basically The SAME subsystems minus a few differnces (Load variance system on the 38) can have such a major gap in ride quality. Still scratching my head over that on. What makes it even stranger,is the 40s came in right on the heals of the 38s,and they rode much better! Jackrabbit fast, decent ride quality, and nice to look at. All of these trains were BASED off the R16 design...no matter how jazzed up they were. |
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| (1513041) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 17 09:56:18 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 17 09:03:09 2019. Load Variance system?The R-32s had variable load sensors as part of the SMEE Brake system, which weighed the car load once each time that the "S" wire circuit was completed by closing and locking the doors. The variable Load valve, part of the RT2 bake system continually measured the weight of the car load so as to account for people changing cars en route. That change should have had the opposite effect, making the ride smoother. The only difference in the 2 contracts was that the R-32 were about 69,500 Lbs whereas the R-38s were 1,000 Lbs less (1.4%). I would suggest that any perception of ride quality difference was imagined. |
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| (1513065) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 17 15:32:45 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 17 09:56:18 2019. For some reason, the RT-2 brake system as used on the R-38s through 42s and again on the R-62s and 68s (along with their NYAB Newtran versions) did not perform as well as the SMEE on the R-32s even though it was supposed to be an improvement. Even though the R-40s and 42s were a bit better than the 38s, they still couldn’t beat the 32s. It goes to prove Murphy’s Law that items labeled “new and improved” aren’t. |
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| (1513073) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:04:03 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu May 16 15:34:20 2019. When Chrystie first opened, when th QJ didn’t operate, the Jamaica to Broad St service was called the JJ like the Bway bkln Lcls to Canal St. |
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| (1513074) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:08:16 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 17 08:42:01 2019. Does anyone know how they performed when 50 of them were assigned to the IND A line in the mid 1950s? |
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| (1513077) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:14:48 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri May 17 03:57:50 2019. The post Chrystie side signs that were installed on the TR032s and a few 38s also had lower case lettering which frankly, I don't care for at all. sometime in the late 1960s, some suit decided to come up with “graphic standards” that mandated using a combination of upper and lower case letters which became the norm for all the curtain style roll signs. Fortunately signage has returned to all caps which I find a lot easier to read. AFAIK, no other transit systems in the country use lower case. |
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| (1513101) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by BusRider on Fri May 17 17:56:30 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by randyo on Fri May 17 16:14:48 2019. In terms of buses, CDTA has recently gone back to using lower case, |
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| (1513115) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri May 17 20:35:22 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 17 03:01:26 2019. Thank you for finding these. Could you paste in the URL for each photo?Thanks! |
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| (1513116) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri May 17 20:39:59 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by murray1575 on Thu May 16 16:52:09 2019. I hope they save more than one or two cars. Maybe one for the museum and a four car train, restored back to their original appearance and condition as much as possible. |
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| (1513121) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri May 17 23:30:29 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Express Rider on Fri May 17 20:39:59 2019. The museum has 3352/3 (AFAIK), don't know if any others will be preserved.
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| (1513124) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat May 18 01:50:20 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri May 17 23:30:29 2019. Thank you for including the image. Removing original route letter and route name boxes, and replacing it with the single box with only the letter as in the above photo, was the worst idea in the world. The route letter and the window is small, and with the black background it is very difficult to read on a train entering a station. |
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| (1513161) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat May 18 10:28:00 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 17 09:56:18 2019. Thank you.I completely got ahead of myself,combined everything into one description. Next time I'll type SLOWLY TO INCLUDE ALL VARIATION. |
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| (1513165) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat May 18 10:38:38 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Express Rider on Sat May 18 01:50:20 2019. Unfortunately they needed to do that to the R32/38 because that is where they put the air conditioning. The resulting interior look is much cleaner than it was on the R26/28/29/33/36s, which kept the route/dest sign at the expense of the awkward looking boxes in the middle of the car with those thick poles.If the R32s were to still be around for a decade, they'd probably solve it by putting an R160 style red LED sign up there... |
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| (1513168) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sat May 18 11:07:00 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by randyo on Fri May 17 15:32:45 2019. Well having never officially operated any subway car, I'd have to defer to your experience. |
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| (1513175) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:25:51 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat May 18 10:38:38 2019. I never understood how the smaller IRT cars were able to have A/C installed and retaine their original roll signs and the larger BMT/IND cars couldn’t. |
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| (1513181) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat May 18 15:00:35 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:25:51 2019. no failure on your part. |
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| (1513182) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by northshore on Sat May 18 16:09:31 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue May 14 17:55:48 2019. Wouldst have the R-44's been the first fleet to carry the World Trade Center destination? |
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| (1513183) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat May 18 16:46:24 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by northshore on Sat May 18 16:09:31 2019. I don't recall. Early on, the only R-44 route to terminate at Chambers/Hudson Terminal/WTC was the E, and I don't think the 44s appeared there that often (mostly on the A/D/F). Probably, the R-46 had WTC, initially they were only on the F, by the 80s, they were on most trains out of Jamaica Yard, but the signs may have been revised by then. |
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| (1513188) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat May 18 19:14:31 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat May 18 10:38:38 2019. I would have preferred seeing them with their original front route-destination setup. I still remember having this gut feeling that someday, somehow the R-32s would sport front route and destination signs again after they received those multicolored route signs in the front destination slot. |
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| (1513191) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat May 18 20:07:59 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat May 18 19:14:31 2019. In this modern era of bright high resolution LCD displays, there's no reason why new cars can't have a crisp white on black destination display along with a color route bullet that looks identical to what we had up until the R40. And with full color, they could change the display to the black on white inverse for service disruptions, as they do for temporary signage. |
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| (1513214) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by northshore on Sun May 19 04:50:30 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat May 18 16:46:24 2019. The R-44's originally ran on the E & F. World Trade Center first opened in 1971 |
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| (1513217) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 19 05:27:13 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:25:51 2019. He just explained it! |
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| (1513218) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 19 05:28:35 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat May 18 20:07:59 2019. Doesn’t the R-211 have that? |
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| (1513244) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sun May 19 07:58:23 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 19 05:28:35 2019. In general terms yes, though I believe the intention is for the route bullet to be on the front side window, and the sign above the door will be for destination. As far as I know, both will be LCD or LED screens. |
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| (1513255) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 19 10:03:55 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by randyo on Sat May 18 12:25:51 2019. AC installed in different places in the car. |
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| (1513260) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun May 19 11:07:47 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat May 18 16:46:24 2019. The 44s were divided between A/D/E/F lines.The very first B2(BMT) division line to use 75ft cars was the N. The R68s were essentially BMT cars with every southern division route out of Stillwell using them except the F. The G is the only completely IND route to use those cars. |
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| (1513290) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 19 13:27:48 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Joe V on Sun May 19 10:03:55 2019. They could have been installed in a correspondingly similar place on the larger cars. |
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| (1513301) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun May 19 13:59:44 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by randyo on Sun May 19 13:27:48 2019. Less length between doorways in B Division. Maybe that was the reason |
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| (1513326) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 19 21:02:11 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Edwards! on Sun May 19 11:07:47 2019. B2 is IND. |
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| (1513327) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 19 21:02:40 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Edwards! on Sun May 19 11:07:47 2019. B2 is IND. |
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| (1513351) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 03:12:01 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Express Rider on Fri May 17 20:35:22 2019. Sure- but forgive me for not linking!!!https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?2169 https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?112747 |
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| (1513353) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 20 03:28:28 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 03:12:01 2019. Very tacky.I wonder if Eastern Division passengers found the Arnine to be an improvement over the 20 year older Standards ? I suspect not. The seats were horrible, they looked just as old, and were noisier. |
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| (1513368) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon May 20 05:35:55 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Joe V on Mon May 20 03:28:28 2019. Conductors had to wear hard hats with the R9's. |
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| (1513371) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon May 20 05:41:12 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon May 20 05:35:55 2019. That's on the Canarsie line only. |
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| (1513379) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon May 20 08:56:49 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 03:12:01 2019. Linked Linked-1 |
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| (1513389) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 10:03:46 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by Joe V on Mon May 20 03:28:28 2019. I'd think that a non-railfan might not even notice a difference between an Arnine and a Standard/Steel or an SIRT car (1925 version).The Triplexes might have been more apparent to the general public... |
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| (1513392) | |
Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon May 20 10:29:45 2019, in response to Re: Tuscarora Dispatch No 25 / R-32 and R-38 Rollsigns, posted by MainR3664 on Mon May 20 10:03:46 2019. Standards never got hard, fiberglass seats. That is the first thing they would notice. |
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