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| Re: oddball rail transit observations (1510428) | |
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| (1510604) | |
Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 22 02:45:31 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by VictorM on Sun Apr 21 18:07:44 2019. So that MP41 is coming from Jamaica. I didn't realize that east of there, the LIRR Atlantic Branch seems to be going up on an el for some short distance. I thought it stayed at ground level on th middle of Atlantic Av all the way to Morris Park. |
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| (1510610) | |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 22 04:13:30 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by K. Trout on Sat Apr 20 09:23:24 2019. That’s really the best thing to do - reopen Woodhaven, maybe add a stop at Utica. Free transfers to the subway at Atlantic Avenue and ENY. And display it more prominently on the subway map, perhaps with its own line color and route letter. |
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| (1510613) | |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Apr 22 04:48:15 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 22 02:45:31 2019. at warwick st.was an island platform station. as strange things go in my life,one of the cops I worked with in the 7-5 told me that his aunt was the ticket agent at this station. |
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| (1510614) | |
Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Apr 22 04:51:07 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 22 04:13:30 2019. Utica is at the very eastern end of the elevated section, and at a steep grade. |
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| (1510615) | |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Apr 22 05:15:37 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Apr 21 12:57:33 2019. Good thing you do. No reasonable way to get most places in ND without a car.Whereas I gave up my car a year ago and have only needed to rent a car for 10 days in that year. |
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Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 22 06:41:22 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by tunnelrat on Mon Apr 22 04:48:15 2019. Warwick station I knew it once existed. |
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| (1510625) | |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 22 06:44:11 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 22 04:13:30 2019. With S52/53 SBS, Woodhaven staion would fit in very well, maybe even siphon some business off the A and J trains, but notice they insisted on moving their Atlantic a stop a block or two away. MTA wants us to forget there ever was a Woodhaven station, and designed SBS around it. |
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| (1510627) | |
Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 06:54:45 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 22 06:44:11 2019. Because they wanted the buses to use the overpass, making an Atlantic stop impossible. They figured there would be more benefit to faster service for people going to/from the Rockaways than the connection to the Q24 that hardly anyone coming from the Rockaways actually used.The Woodhaven Station was located at the crossing of the RB Branch and not at Woodhaven Boulevard, so it would not add a meaningful connection to the SBS even if the SBS stopped at Atlantic. |
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| (1510628) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 07:00:35 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Apr 20 10:54:21 2019. But you also feel that all transit should be free, an untenable and inefficient proposition. |
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| (1510634) | |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 22 07:08:40 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 06:54:45 2019. For now, it works, and the Q24 connection is probably not that important. But the western end of the Woodhaven station is probably at 97th Street, where they could drop another set of stairs, and be a 0.2 miles/3 minute walk to Woodhaven Blvd. Be no worse off than the Q35 stop at Target with the 2/3 subway. |
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| (1510636) | |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Apr 22 07:11:51 2019, in response to oddball rail transit observations, posted by ntrainride on Sat Apr 20 07:46:12 2019. The tunnel run between East New York and Boland's Landing is quite a trip too. I used to stand at the RFW and saw an indicated 70 mph on the T/O's speedometer. |
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| (1510637) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 07:21:00 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Apr 22 07:11:51 2019. I've never been able to spot Woodhaven. |
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| (1510646) | |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Apr 22 08:22:19 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 07:00:35 2019. Yes, I do. Inefficient? no. Transit facilitates the function of the city--not really very different from paved sidewalks, streetlights, parks, aand all of the otheramenities we thinkof as marks of civilization. You don't pay an individual fee for the streetlight on your street. It would seem you and I sharply disagree on what we should jointly underwrite. |
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| (1510649) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 08:34:20 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Apr 22 08:22:19 2019. I disagree. The difference between transit and a sidewalk is that a sidewalk is non-excludable, making it a common good. Mass transit is a private good. Now you may consider it morally right to have free transit, but I see it as causing various problems, namely the transit system is poorly run and has to go hat in hand to politicians for funding, and the fare is a political football.The streetlight is also non-excludable, and even more, non-rival, making it a public good. |
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| (1510653) | |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Apr 22 08:51:34 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 08:34:20 2019. I think I've actually seen a sidewalk as an excludable good, though I forget the details.I'm thinking maybe a resort fences off its property all the way to the street, so if you're walking along the street and don't belong to the resort you can't use the walkway but have to walk in the street. |
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| (1510655) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 08:55:46 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 22 08:51:34 2019. That's not really applicable, as there is therefore no sidewalk there.An example of an excludable sidewalk is in a gated community. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 22 11:25:59 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 22 04:13:30 2019. Yes! |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 22 12:04:56 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 21 04:08:19 2019. You just created an R46 car.The whole point of the 75ft program was to operate over the New subway lines and commuter rail lines those routes would |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 22 12:06:27 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Apr 21 04:08:19 2019. You just created an R46 car.The whole point of the 75ft program was to operate over the New subway lines and commuter rail lines those routes would either run along side or take over services. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Apr 22 13:31:49 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by AlM on Mon Apr 22 08:51:34 2019. Rockefeller Plaza is an excludable road and sidewalk. This right holds as long as it is closed to the public at least once each year. They put up a Christmas tree and close the road.RAOR |
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| (1510673) | |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Apr 22 13:34:39 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 22 12:06:27 2019. Yup, and they build the R-11s to run on the Second Avenue Subway.ROAR |
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| (1510676) | |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Apr 22 13:40:46 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 22 02:45:31 2019. Here's a photo from arrts-arrchives.com looking east at Pennsylvania Av showing the LIRR cut and cover construction under the el: At the same time they were putting the LIRR underground they were also building the IND subway along Pennsylvania Av crossing under the LIRR tunnel at Pennsylvania Av. That site has some great photos showing the LIRR el: http://www.arrts-arrchives.com/enyeast.html http://www.arrts-arrchives.com/enyeast2.html The el ended near Logan St. It lasted only about 40 years. |
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| (1510678) | |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 22 13:57:49 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by VictorM on Mon Apr 22 13:40:46 2019. I never knew it existed. |
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| (1510681) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 14:28:25 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Apr 22 13:31:49 2019. Rockefeller Plaza is not open to the public as highway for motor vehicles at any time.Rockefeller Plaza is open to the public as a walkway at almost all times. Especially when the tree is placed there. |
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| (1510696) | |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Apr 22 15:54:27 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Apr 22 04:51:07 2019. It’s four long avenue blocks from Utica to the very eastern end of the elevated section at Ralph Avenue. And Google Street View shows the el passing over Utica without any noticeable drop in grade. The new station doesn’t even have to be centered over Utica; just have one end over Utica and extend toward Schenectady Ave. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Apr 23 02:05:16 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by randyo on Sun Apr 21 11:27:55 2019. Proven but a bit long in the tooth. |
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| (1510722) | |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Apr 23 03:56:55 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 14:28:25 2019. Used to be open for vehicles.Still is a private place. ROAR |
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| (1510726) | |
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Posted by Q4 on Tue Apr 23 05:23:43 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 22 13:57:49 2019. This is great. I also did not know it existed. Thanks for this thread. |
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| (1510727) | |
Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by Q4 on Tue Apr 23 05:26:14 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 07:21:00 2019. Actually right now the Woodhaven stop is lit up more than it was in the past and is more visible. Heading towards Jamaica you can make out the tiles and the opening where the stairs are. |
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| (1510728) | |
Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 06:25:07 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Apr 23 03:56:55 2019. And? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 12:07:04 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Apr 23 03:56:55 2019. Correct. back when vehicle traffic was allowed, the street had to be closed to traffic one day a year in order to maintain its status as a private street. |
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| (1510746) | |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 12:08:55 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Apr 22 13:34:39 2019. With the exception of the single museum R-11, both car contracts, the R-11 and the R-44 intended for the SAS ahve been scrapped. |
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| (1510748) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 12:12:23 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 12:07:04 2019. The closure applies to all traffic, not just vehicle, and if I am not mistaken, continues to this day, as it is a standard practice for similar locations.Of course, it is not done in December as barring pedestrians at that time would be most disruptive. |
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| (1510749) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 12:12:51 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 12:08:55 2019. There are no museum R-44s? |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 12:40:00 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 12:12:23 2019. I don't recall pedestrians being banned, since pedestrians have access to many private areas like building entrances and other similar locations where pedestrians go. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 12:41:16 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 12:12:51 2019. AFAIK, no since even after GOH, their braking systems are incompatible with anything else including the R-46s. |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 23 13:32:37 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by VictorM on Mon Apr 22 13:40:46 2019. How far east did that el go and how many tracks ?I have seen pictures of the junction with the Chestnut Street connection. |
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| (1510770) | |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 23 14:45:22 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 23 12:08:55 2019. The 5240 will never be anything but a flower pot.I don't think the SIR ones are compatible with it either, or an R46. At least the 8013 can play with any other SMEE-like car, even an R68. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 23 15:34:08 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 12:12:23 2019. No, it's not necessary to bar pedestrians to keep an automobile road "private". |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:06:53 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 23 15:34:08 2019. Then why does Rockefeller Center do it? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:22:37 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by italianstallion on Tue Apr 23 15:34:08 2019. In Rockefeller Center, in New York City, a private street called Rockefeller Plaza is situated between the GE Building and the sunken skating rink. In order to preserve Rockefeller Center's right of ownership of the street, each year the street is closed to all traffic, even pedestrian, for one day — a Sunday in July is usually chosen as interfering least with tenants and visitors. Lawyers for Rockefeller Center believe that this formality is necessary to prevent the public from acquiring a permanent right of way in the street. Dukeminier & Krier, Property (6th Ed. 2006) p. 699, fn. 16. |
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| (1510778) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:24:08 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:22:37 2019. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/nyregion/lever-house-closes-once-a-year-to-maintain-its-ownership-rights.html |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Apr 23 17:50:18 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:22:37 2019. I recall learning about that in school many moons ago as well. |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Apr 23 18:07:40 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Apr 22 07:21:00 2019. Really? Its actually pretty well lit, especially the Jamaica-bound side. And its in very good shape too, with not much graffiti. Much better than closed IRT stations like Worth and 18th Streets, which are in terrible condition. |
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Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 19:14:17 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Mitch45 on Tue Apr 23 18:07:40 2019. I tried to look for it around 20 years ago and then I just never noticed it. I most recently rode through there on a semi-regular (10 trip ticket regular) basis in 2015 but that was the last time I rode it at all. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Apr 23 23:38:27 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by K. Trout on Sat Apr 20 20:30:21 2019. Sometimes I wonder if it would be financially/politically easier to implement these ideas as BRT lines first then eventually make the case to convert them into rail lines if well utilized or into "greenways" if conversely underutilized, but then I read stuff like how it would cost over $350,000,000 to convert North Shore SIRT to BRT and I'm back to square one. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 24 03:58:08 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Apr 23 16:24:08 2019. And at Rockefeller Plaza the street has to be closed to pederastians when they set up and remove that Christmas Tree. Makes only cents.Dad could always walk on it because he was not part of the public, but an employee of the owner. ROAR |
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Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Apr 24 19:21:29 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 23 13:32:37 2019. The 4 tracks ended about 2 blocks east of Pennsylvania Av. From there east it was 2 tracks. The el reached ground level just west of Norwood Av. |
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Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 25 04:56:49 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by VictorM on Wed Apr 24 19:21:29 2019. Nowrwood Avenue - I guess they did not want to be bothered incorporating the Chestnut Street incline with it. That would have been something - el to el connection.None of the LIRR history books I have say anything about that forgotten LIRR el portion. |
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Re: oddball rail transit observations |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Apr 25 06:45:23 2019, in response to Re: oddball rail transit observations, posted by VictorM on Mon Apr 22 13:40:46 2019. I remember that building from when I lived in Brooklyn in the 60 and 70s. Looks like it's gone nowThe rest of the intersection looks about the same. |
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