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| Re: New rolling stock for NJT (1495675) | |
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| (1495820) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 08:39:59 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 13 11:55:43 2018. I'd rather have the Arrow III's than more bi-level crap. |
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| (1495832) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 09:49:30 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 08:39:59 2018. Can't destroy the Dinky if we had those, could we. |
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| (1495833) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 09:50:23 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 08:38:35 2018. They're probably thinking "standees". |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1495834) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 09:52:00 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 08:36:39 2018. Yes. Comparable to split-level houses in some ways. |
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| (1495837) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Dec 14 10:15:14 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 08:38:35 2018. I believe they went 2+2 to get away from the middle seat, so it doesn't seat that many more, but passengers may be happier... |
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| (1495838) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 10:51:50 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Fri Dec 14 10:15:14 2018. It's a mixed bag. If you don't want to sit next to people, the three seater with the empty middle seat is the best option. In 2+2 there is little to discourage someone from just sitting next to you. |
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| (1495839) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Dec 14 10:58:50 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 10:51:50 2018. I agree with that, but focus group and surveys done by commuter rr have generally shown a preference for 2+2 |
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| (1495869) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 14:53:25 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Fri Dec 14 10:58:50 2018. Why is that a thing they should choose? NJT needs to maximize capacity and minimize costs. The bi-levels should be 3-2 on both levels. If passengers want 2+2 NJT should have first class cars as existed in France. |
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| (1495871) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 15:15:50 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 10:51:50 2018. They have the 2 single seats at each end of the upper level for that.The 2x2 seating is nice because while you are more likely to get a seatmate, the seats are wider so you're not squished against them like you would be if you sat in one of the seats on the 2 side of a 2+3. Finally, there's more window seats on the multilevels. |
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| (1495872) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by pragmatist on Fri Dec 14 15:25:52 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 14:53:25 2018. At a certain point, public transit systems, like most businesses, are responsible to their customers, and knowing what they prefer is important. You certainly can't always give them that, but having the information makes sense. Most agencies take public input on interior design, and industrial engineers for private carriers don't operate in a vacuum either. |
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| (1495874) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 15:30:01 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 14:53:25 2018. I'm sure you remember how the negotiations went:Union on behalf of conductors: Ok we'll accept the same amount of crews for these larger cars, but no more reversible seats. NJ-ARP: Whoa whoa, no more reversing seats? Only if they're 2x2, no more middle seat! If there were 3x2 seating the result would have been off-peak Hoboken division trains with only one car open. |
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| (1495886) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Dec 14 17:28:35 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Dec 14 08:39:59 2018. I'm thinking more like a version of the Silverliner Vs but with all the bugs ironed out. |
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| (1495891) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:03:01 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 21:21:39 2018. The BRT thing is dead, but NJT still has fantasies about killing the Dinky. |
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| (1495892) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:03:33 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 21:20:20 2018. Plans come and go. |
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| (1495893) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:05:01 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 13 20:56:17 2018. No. I'd go with high level doors that are double width, like the LIRR cars. For that matter, LIRR cars have wider stairs that are also less steep. They still need trap doors on the ends. |
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| (1495894) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:05:33 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 21:18:51 2018. MARC's generally run only on the Brunswick line |
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| (1495895) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:06:25 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Dec 13 18:44:47 2018. Eating less causes the body to determine it is in a famine, and metabolism slows, which uses less calories. |
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| (1495898) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 18:10:01 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:05:33 2018. Well, that sure makes no sense. |
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| (1495899) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 18:10:40 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:03:33 2018. They sure do. |
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| (1495900) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 18:11:19 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:03:01 2018. Well, they sure look very close to realizing that fantasy. |
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| (1495901) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:11:48 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by pragmatist on Fri Dec 14 10:15:14 2018. I don't think they are happier if you told them the MLV cars have caused the schedules to be stretched. The tip-up seats at the ends of the car are awful. Then there are 32 regular seats arranged in facing pairs that are seldom all occupied. |
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| (1495903) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:14:53 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 15:15:50 2018. I once took out a tape measure and compared the NJT seat with the LIRR seat.1/3rd the width of a LIRR 3-seat bench is the width of the NJT MLV seat cushion, which have a steel bar between them. It is also 2" shorter, despite both cars having the same seat pitch. NJT seats suck. |
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| (1495912) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by zuckie13 on Fri Dec 14 19:20:16 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 18:10:01 2018. The mid point doors are generally useless (except maybe at union station), but the low level end doors that work with the traps up are a nice change. |
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| (1495913) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 19:22:57 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by zuckie13 on Fri Dec 14 19:20:16 2018. How many high platforms are on the Brunswick Line? From the fact that gallery cars run there, I presumed zero, and that such trains operated to/from Union Station's low platforms.Not to mention, the Kawasaki bilevels that came from VRE are supposed to have automatic trapdoors that lift and lower at low platforms with the push of a button. |
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| (1495916) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 20:27:20 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:14:53 2018. LIRR cars are tapered, while NJT cars are flat sided. You have to compare the NJT ML seat with the NJT Comet seats, or the LIRR C3 seats with the NJT ML seat.I rather enjoy the ML seats compared to the Comets and Arrows. As a railfan I prefer the Comet II and Arrow III. |
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| (1495917) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 20:29:11 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by randyo on Fri Dec 14 17:28:35 2018. Silverliner V with no bugs = Denver's variant. But with Rotem closing their Philly facility do they even have a place to build them? |
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| (1495918) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 20:32:07 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:05:01 2018. I'd agree actually, but by still needing the trap doors you end up with the same problem.The best case would be if NJT went 100% high level so they no longer need traps at all. Raise Jersey Ave and the NEC is done. NJCL is almost done. RVL, M&E, and rest of Hoboken Division are barely started. |
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| (1495919) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 20:43:03 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 20:32:07 2018. The high level doors being only single width create a terrible log jam in getting in and out. |
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| (1495920) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 20:46:08 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 18:11:19 2018. The BRT was primarily for US-1. They threw in the Princeton branch to puff up its miserable ridership projections.Alexander Road will be closed starting this summer through Spring 2020 to replace its small bridge over the D&R Canal, which is in awful condition. On days the Dinky is bus'd, which is whenever the Arrows breaks down, it will be hell going those 2.5 miles on detours. |
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| (1495921) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 20:47:00 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 13 21:40:06 2018. When we get over 45, staying 'stop eating" to lose weight sounds rather ridiculous. |
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| (1495922) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 20:49:49 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 20:27:20 2018. I think all NJT seats suck for different reasons. But the seat cushions are all 2" too short, which I find very annoying. The Comet V seat is the least bad. I also don't like narrow head rests on the MLV's. Very hard to take a snooze.There is no comparison between the LIRR C-3 seat and the MLV seat. The C-3 seat is in the lap of luxury by comparison. |
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| (1495923) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 20:51:09 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 20:29:11 2018. Kawasaki will build M-9's even though M-7's were Bombardier. Given they are all rolling CPU's these days, a non-Rotem Silverliner would probably not be compatible. |
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| (1495928) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 21:49:48 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 20:32:07 2018. The best case would be if NJT went 100% high level so they no longer need traps at allThat doesn't eliminate the need for trapdoors, unless they go the LIRR route and use those inane mobile platform flat cars when a local track is closed—and in emergency stops, it's still better to have trapdoors. So no, it's not "best case". Best case is if the NYC metro area went the other direction with all low platforms when those platforms were in the majority. |
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| (1495929) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 21:52:11 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 20:32:07 2018. The best case would be if NJT went 100% high level so they no longer need traps at allThat doesn't eliminate the need for trapdoors, unless they go the LIRR route and use those inane mobile platform flat cars when a local track is closed—and in emergency stops, it's still better to have trapdoors. So no, it's not "best case". Best case is if the NYC metro area went the other direction with all low platforms when those platforms were in the majority. BTW, they are planning to close Jersey Avenue and replace it with a station in North Brunswick adjacent to the old J&J plant. And on the RVL, the CNJ had Cranford and Elizabethport with high platforms for ages; NJT has done Union (Townley), Westfield and Plainfield. Hoboken Division used to be all low, hence the Comet I cars having low doors only. |
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| (1495930) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 21:54:31 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 20:46:08 2018. Don't forget, the original New Jersey RR ran alongside the Delaware and Raritan Canal. IIRC, the original Princeton station was not too far from Alexander Road. |
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| (1495932) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 21:57:05 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 20:27:20 2018. I rather enjoy the ML seats compared to the Comets and ArrowsWhich seats? The Comets have had different seats in the past, save IV and V; the original II seating before the rebuild was the orange seats while IIB had the fixed seats. Arrow IIIs originally had orange and black reversible seats; Arrow IIs had green and blue reversible seats. And of course, Comet Is had the 2-2 reversible seats. |
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| (1495935) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 23:05:14 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 21:52:11 2018. I actually agree Hoboken div should have stayed all low. But, too late now. They did Ramsey 17, Ridgewood, Paterson, Westmont and some other stop on the BCL, and of course Meadowlands and Secaucus.LIRR uses mobile flat cars? Could have fooled me, KG and FH only get one single door (as of a few weekends ago) while Woodside gets 6 cars worth of bridge plates. |
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| (1495940) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 23:46:45 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 23:05:14 2018. I've seen the mobile flat cars in the past, especially on the Main Line. Guess MTA is getting cheaper now.I have also seen similar flat cars in Elizabeth NJ, when the northbound (eastbound) local track was being worked on in the late 1990s. |
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| (1495948) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 15 00:44:52 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 14 23:05:14 2018. The connector in Kearny joined the Hoboken Division to the Newark Division BTW, so NJT would not have stuck with all low platforms anyhow. Before that, they had the Waterfront Connection, and when they ran the Bergen Shore Express they used the little-used Center Street Branch connector, which was quite low speed.I have a PRR commuter rail timetable from 1967 that advertised Jersey Avenue station when it was new, particularly the park-ride feature and the supposed advantage of not having to drive all the way into New Brunswick to fight for the limited parking spaces there. |
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| (1496141) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 16 16:08:32 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 20:51:09 2018. It will be compatible if the contract specs REQUIRE it! |
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| (1496142) | |
Re: New rolling stock for NJT |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 16 16:08:46 2018, in response to Re: New rolling stock for NJT, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 20:51:09 2018. It will be compatible if the contract specs REQUIRE it! |
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