|
|
| Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue (1478174) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
| (1478174) | |
Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 13 17:30:26 2018 A few days ago there was some discussion about the proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue. It took me a while but I was able to locate a description of it. Description of the Proposed LIRR East Side Terminal The LIRR will eventually serve Grand Central Terminal. Trains will access Manhattan via the lower level tracks of the 63rd Street Tunnel. Back in 1968 it was proposed to build a separate terminal for the Long Island Rail Road on the East Side of Manhattan. The platforms would have been located on Third Avenue between 48th and 52nd Street. The line itself would extend to 42nd Street. This is a brief description. The line would cross the East River and then turn south onto Third Avenue. At 59th Street it would split into an upper and lower level each with two tracks. About 53rd Street each level would widen to four tracks and each level would have two island platforms. South of the platforms the line would again widen to six tracks and extend to 42nd Street. A trackmap drawn by Mr. Jeffrey Erlitz appears in the January 1983 New York Division Bulletin Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (1478178) | |
Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Jun 13 18:25:03 2018, in response to Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 13 17:30:26 2018. I believe that was to be called the Metropolitan Transit Center. Never built. |
|
|
| (1478180) | |
Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 13 18:28:20 2018, in response to Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 13 17:30:26 2018. It would have been called the "Metropolitan Transportation Center." The tracks and platforms would have fit under the street itself, but office buildings would have been built along 3rd Avenue providing access, along with passages to Grand Central and to the SAS 48th Street station.The connection to Grand Central would be via a north end connection, which was ultimately built in the 1990s. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1478220) | |
[PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018, in response to Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 13 17:30:26 2018. 
|
|
|
| (1478223) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 14 11:34:53 2018, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018. Cool. Cool cool cool. |
|
|
| (1478228) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by chud1 on Thu Jun 14 12:26:50 2018, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars.chud1. :)..... |
|
|
| (1478229) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jun 14 12:50:44 2018, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018. Who drew that?Wallyhorse? All joking aside it is pretty cool. Thanks for sharing. When is it from? '68? |
|
|
| (1478236) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 13:21:47 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jun 14 12:50:44 2018. When is it from? '68?No date on photo. Bill Newkirk |
|
|
| (1478237) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jun 14 13:25:39 2018, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018. Looks like a proposed drawing showing the area after Grand Central endured the same fate as Penn Station! |
|
|
| (1478252) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by FtGreeneG on Thu Jun 14 15:30:45 2018, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018. Interesting concept. What was the Midtown Distribution System? |
|
|
| (1478255) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 16:38:17 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by FtGreeneG on Thu Jun 14 15:30:45 2018. Interesting concept. What was the Midtown Distribution System?Looks like a automated people mover. Perhaps a connection to GCT ? Bill Newkirk |
|
|
| (1478257) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Thu Jun 14 16:47:35 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 16:38:17 2018. As I recall, it was to be an automated people mover going crosstown across 48th St. It would not have connected to GCT, for which there would be a pedestrian passageway instead. |
|
|
| (1478259) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by mtk52983 on Thu Jun 14 17:04:37 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 13:21:47 2018. Yes it is. Bottom left indicates 1976 if I am reading correctly. Makes sense considering renderings of M1 |
|
|
| (1478270) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Jun 14 19:33:03 2018, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018. Even adjusted for inflation, that probably would have cost less than $10 billion. |
|
|
| (1478273) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jun 14 20:16:34 2018, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018. This is all a lot more detail than I ever knew at the time they had actual plans for. That a terminal was planned for 48th and 3rd I knew, but I thought the details were vague. It looks like all of this was going to be near the street level, above the 53rd St. E/F line running crosstown, which seems to be shown on the lowest level. But it must have been below the 60th St. tube, since the 63rd St. tunnel was built pretty much according to the original plan, was it not? And it is deeper than 60th St. |
|
|
| (1478277) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jun 14 20:37:20 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jun 14 20:16:34 2018. OK, I guess that is not the E/F line shown on the left, but a different "people mover" line, which I thought was meant (in 1968) to be an airport-style moving sidewalk, (like a flat escalator). If these plans are from 1976, then that part could have changed since 1968, and maybe the specifics about the number of platforms could have been firmed up in the interim from 1968 to 1976 as well. But this still clearly would all have been done as cut-and-cover, without disturbing the 53rd St. line below. |
|
|
| (1478281) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 21:01:42 2018, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018. Something about that Air Terminal For JFK Airport in the center. Would a reactivated LIRR Rockaway Division come into play for travelers to reach JFK Airport ?Bill Newkirk |
|
|
| (1478285) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jun 14 21:14:01 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 21:01:42 2018. Was that part of the action plan in '68? |
|
|
| (1478289) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Jun 14 21:27:23 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Jun 14 17:04:37 2018. I see that as well.It looks a little dated for 1976 to me but it's only 8 years. |
|
|
| (1478291) | |
Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue/LIRR Forward Commentary |
|
|
Posted by Transportation Hub on Thu Jun 14 22:21:21 2018, in response to Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 13 17:30:26 2018. Apologies to Larry (RedbirdR33) for disrupting his discussion.Seen here is the commentary for the MTA LIRR Forward Plan. This commentary reflects on specialized actions designed to transform the efficiency of railroad operations while hardening infrastructure as we continuously strive to provide a world-class customer experience to its travelers, as they deserve nothing less. The plan also takes a new new direction that will help us anticipate our problems before they arise, set standards on how to quickly and correctly respond to the challenges we face, to deliver what our ridership expects of us – which is safe, reliable service bolstered by timely, accurate and effective communication." Words from LIRR President Phillip Eng. Please enjoy the commentary. P.S.- For LIRR's East Side Access, it would make reasonable senseto construct tracks via 63rd Street (underneath the (F)&(Q) Lines) and 3rd Avenue, which is where capital construction is taking place right now. |
|
|
| (1478294) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 14 23:51:10 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Jun 14 17:04:37 2018. I think 1968 as part of the "Plan for Action" that never materialized due to the twin recessions of 1969-'75 that led to NYC's bankruptcy. |
|
|
| (1478295) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by FtGreeneG on Fri Jun 15 00:26:56 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by italianstallion on Thu Jun 14 16:47:35 2018. Interesting. Kind of redundant with both the shuttle 7 train six blocks away. Thanks for the info. |
|
|
| (1478296) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 15 01:17:32 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 21:01:42 2018. Yup.Fell apart just like the rest of the PROJECTS. Nimby blockages...and money stopped the Air Train. |
|
|
| (1478356) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Jun 15 15:18:15 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 15 01:17:32 2018. I recall seeing some rather cursory track plans for the extension of the LIRR into JFK utilizing the current N/B tracks of the IND Rockaway Line F2 and F4 tks were to have been transferred to LIRR and F1 and F3 tks would have become the N/B and S/B tks of the IND Rockaway Line. How that would have impacted on the IND’s access to the Aqueduct racetrack platform I don’t know. |
|
|
| (1478369) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jun 15 15:56:28 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 14 23:51:10 2018. NYC bankrupt?I think you're using that loosely. |
|
|
| (1478371) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by pragmatist on Fri Jun 15 15:59:08 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Jun 15 15:56:28 2018. No, there was a period of time where without some very quick and creative financial and political actions, NYC would have been unable to meet its obligations. |
|
|
| (1478383) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Fri Jun 15 17:04:17 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by randyo on Fri Jun 15 15:18:15 2018. Hmm..that would have made sense seeing as the A line enters the branch from the westside of structure.Same as today...the Air train could potentially curve over and use the Eastern side to operate to the Mainline or the much better suited Atlantic branch. |
|
|
| (1478400) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 15 19:49:48 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jun 14 20:16:34 2018. I rather like this better than the ESA that they are now doing. |
|
|
| (1478401) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 15 19:53:22 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu Jun 14 23:51:10 2018. The rumor I heard is that Rockefeller pissed away the 1967 Bond Issue money to build pork barrel freeways in central Suffolk County to get re-elected, tried to pass a 1969 Bond Issue to cover his ass, but the voters rejected it. |
|
|
| (1478402) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by qveensboro_plaza on Fri Jun 15 20:07:37 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 15 19:53:22 2018. What are these pork barrel freeways in central Suffolk County? |
|
|
| (1478411) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by N6 Limited on Fri Jun 15 22:02:30 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by qveensboro_plaza on Fri Jun 15 20:07:37 2018. Probably Nichols Rd, William Floyd Pkwy, etc |
|
|
| (1478420) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 16 01:00:21 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Joe V on Fri Jun 15 19:53:22 2018. More or less,cause the subway saw very little of that money.What got me was the fact they tried to say some of that money was used to buy new cars for the subway...vars that were ordered way before the plam even became public. It was only when that fact was presented to them,that they admitted that statement was in error. The 600 million that was suppose to be used by the Subway was pissed away on the railroads. The rapid transit lines that were begun were already on the books for construction,along with part of the funds to build them. The bond issues that came afterwards was the State's trying the three card monte with the city. 2.5 billion dollars should have built much more than what we got...instead thr LIRR and PCRR got the majority...whatever left over was hijacked by political hacks under the table. The was enough Fed money available to get the SAS built at least in Manhattan...and more in Queens...plus a jump on the Utica avenue subway. Washington DC started Metro around the same time the new routes program began here...and they managed to build an entire system of over100 miles.. While MTA? Not much. |
|
|
| (1478425) | |
Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Sat Jun 16 02:32:55 2018, in response to Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jun 13 17:30:26 2018. ...so, not a simple side-platform station under park avenue and 32nd st? |
|
|
| (1478426) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 16 04:59:52 2018, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Bill Newkirk on Thu Jun 14 10:52:18 2018. Sterile-looking government design. And why do the streets look like they have streetcar tracks on them? |
|
|
| (1478427) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Jun 16 06:41:45 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jun 16 04:59:52 2018. That's what we had, private sector as well, in the 1960's - glass or concrete architecture boxes. |
|
|
| (1478458) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Jun 16 18:40:59 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jun 16 01:00:21 2018. Well, by 1988 they opened a leaky, rat-infested Archer Avenue subway that merely replaced the Jamaica el and diverted half the Hillside subway trains, both of which terminated a half mile or mile west of how far they used to run.By the time every MU car on the LIRR built prior to 1968 was gone (1972) from electric service, 1,000 of the Arnine junk was still running on the B Division. Central Suffolk in the early 1970's was still very rural. It was beyond normal NYC commuting range, yet short of the touristy Hamptons and North Fork. |
|
|
| (1478647) | |
Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue |
|
|
Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Mon Jun 18 15:23:24 2018, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Proposed LIRR Terminal on Third Avenue, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Jun 14 17:04:37 2018. It is from the 1968 Program for Action. Pretty sure it says Rudolph or Randolph Assoc. NYC. Not "1976." |
|
|
