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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 11 00:39:28 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 10 18:55:22 2017.

Correct. They needed the BT sets to replace the A cars that were put into the former BX units to add to 2 B units to make 8 car trains.

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(1457838)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 11 00:51:04 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Dec 10 19:39:47 2017.

That might have been possible, but I remember an article from ERA Headlights in 1956 that seemed to indicate that the removal of the “skirts” was not an easy operation and that’s why they weren’t modified or use on Myrtle.

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(1457839)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 11 00:52:17 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 10 18:51:25 2017.

I wasn’t thinking about them being operated in service so much as coupled together for shop moves like for example from CIYd to 36 St Yd.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 11 01:26:45 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 10 18:58:08 2017.

Even though many NYCTS cars have lasted longer like the Hi- Vs which made it past 50 years and the R-32s which are doing likewise, the powers that be determined that the ideal maximum life span would be 35 years even if it couldn’t be accomplished so they based their scrapping schedule on that.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Dec 11 02:29:15 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 11 01:26:45 2017.

That's what happens when "the powers that be" take over the railroads and pull them out of the private sector.

There were EMUs on the commuter railroads that lasted into their 70s (longer if you count their time spent as trailer cars prior to conversion), mostly because the takeover of commuter rail by the public sector happened later than that of the takeover of the NYC subway lines.

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(1457856)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Dec 11 05:29:47 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 10 23:00:41 2017.

Or for that matter, the BMT standards.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Dec 11 07:29:16 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Dec 10 13:50:40 2017.

There was even thought of running Standards on the IND- some had GG signs installed. But the consensus seems to be that this plan was never actually put into effect...

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Dec 11 10:04:02 2017, in response to [PHOTOS] The D-Type "Triplex" Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Dec 9 19:10:10 2017.

Cool!

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 11 10:30:11 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Dec 11 10:04:02 2017.

Thank you

Bill Newkirk

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(1457925)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 11 15:40:16 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Dec 11 07:29:16 2017.

There were reports of the steels running as a trial on the F Line.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 11 18:26:46 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Dec 10 23:00:41 2017.

Had they repainted them in Roan colors, Dr Ronan himself would have dropped dead of a heart attack right then and there, rather than die as he did at around 100 years old.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Handbrake on Mon Dec 11 18:27:08 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 11 15:40:16 2017.

I have read, on an Internet site, that A/B's were run on the F to calculate their running times to determine if A/B's could be run as rush hour intervals on the QBL.

Makes sense to run A/'s on the QBL express, compared to the GG local, because of all the station stops. Interesting though, is that A/B's ran as locals on the QBL after the 11th Street cut was placed into service. I recall a set o A/B's running fast into Steinway Street station one evening on my way in to Manhattan in the early 60's. I guess a 600V contact rail helps as well.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Dec 11 18:27:29 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Dec 11 07:29:16 2017.

My BMT standard sign box has a GG LOCAL sign on its route curtain.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 11 18:31:45 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Dec 11 07:29:16 2017.

I think that was just a contingency should an Arnine have died at Forest hills, and they could grab a Standard in the yard to fill in.

A 9 car Standard, given that most were in 3 car sets, could operate on the F, but would not likely ever go that fast when on the xpress tracks..

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Dec 11 18:36:21 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Handbrake on Mon Dec 11 18:27:08 2017.

They became souped up standards on the I Love Lucy line.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Dec 11 18:59:30 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 11 18:26:46 2017.

LOL!

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Dec 11 19:07:15 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 11 18:31:45 2017.

"but would not likely ever go that fast when on the xpress tracks.."

The Standards were generally thought of as being underpowered. That said, it might have been struggle to keep the schedule with a rush hr load going up the hill to & from by 67th Ave.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Dec 12 06:56:16 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by randyo on Mon Dec 11 15:40:16 2017.

Yes, I've heard that- but IF it happened, I thought it was completely different from the never-implemented 1966 plan to run them on the GG. I thought the F run (if it happened at all..) was in the 1950s..and was not a success.

As for the plan to run them on the GG- Greller's BMT book shows one with the signs installed.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 07:19:02 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Dec 11 18:27:29 2017.

My BMT standard sign box has a GG LOCAL sign on its route curtain.


Location: Coney Island Yard...Car: BMT A/B-Type Standard 2830...Collection of: David Pirmann...Date: 3/28/1965...from nycsubway.org

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by BMRR on Tue Dec 12 08:50:19 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 07:19:02 2017.

If you look through the window under the sign, it appears that
the car retained its flip up/down extra seat by the door.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by BMT Standard on Tue Dec 12 09:53:57 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 07:19:02 2017.

A few Standards had the "GG Local" route reading and "Smith-9th Sts" destination added to their curtains, probably in the expectation that they could be used on the GG (now G) line, but as far as I know, they never were.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 13:04:49 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by BMRR on Tue Dec 12 08:50:19 2017.

If you look through the window under the sign, it appears that
the car retained its flip up/down extra seat by the door.


Also known as the "drop seat".

The 2800s were never rebuilt, except for #2899.

The rebuilt A-Bs had their drop seats removed.

Bill Newkirk

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 13:08:53 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by BMT Standard on Tue Dec 12 09:53:57 2017.

A few Standards had the "GG Local" route reading and "Smith-9th Sts" destination added to their curtains, probably in the expectation that they could be used on the GG (now G) line, but as far as I know, they never were.

The A-Bs from the 2800 series had those GG signs from what I have learned.

Bill Newkirk


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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 12 15:16:55 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Handbrake on Mon Dec 11 18:27:08 2017.

It’s pretty much well known that the BMT voltage was only 550V instead of the normal 600 even though the rolling stock was industry standard 600V. I imagine that also impacted on the speed of the BMT el cars running on the IRT Queens lines since I believe the IRT power plant supplied a full 600V. That would probably mean that the Qs performed slightly better on the 3 Av el than they did when returned to the BMT in 1958. With the improved voltage on the IND, it’s too bad the Multis never got a chance to run there since as well as they ran on the BMT with 550V their performance on a full 600V would have been outstanding.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 12 15:27:33 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Dec 11 19:07:15 2017.

As I alluded to in my other post, while the steels may have been a bit underpowered on the BMT, they would have performed better on the IND with its full 600V as opposed to the BMT’s 550V. As far as substituting a steel for an R-9 in the event of an equipment failure, at the time the steels operated to CTL IND crews wouldn’t have been qualified on them except for possibly a select few who would have been qualified to operate the test trains on the F. Even after the R-27/30s started to appear on the Brighton and later the 4 Av Lcl, IND crews who didn’t work the A Line weren't even qualified on any SMEE equipment at all and C/Rs who might have been qualified on R-10s would not have been qualified on in cab button door operation.

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(1458033)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Express Rider on Tue Dec 12 15:39:42 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 13:04:49 2017.

how late (years) did the 2800s operate till their withdrawal?

did they operate on the Canarsie line, like the majority of the remaining fleet, elsewhere, or were they withdrawn prior to 1965?
Thanks.

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(1458039)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 12 15:59:07 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Dec 12 06:56:16 2017.

The reports I’v heard indicate that it was done in the 1950s. As for running them on the GG in 1966 while it was proposed, the TA opted instead to transfer some R-16s to the GG and reactivate some of the scrap bound steels for use on the BMT Eastern since at that time the plans were going forward to merge the BMT and IND and the IND crews were being qualified on the R-16s.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 16:06:14 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Express Rider on Tue Dec 12 15:39:42 2017.

how late (years) did the 2800s operate till their withdrawal?

did they operate on the Canarsie line, like the majority of the remaining fleet, elsewhere, or were they withdrawn prior to 1965?
Thanks.


LarryRedBird, care to chime in ?

Bill Newkirk

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Dec 12 18:37:17 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 16:06:14 2017.


Bill: All un-rebuilt Standards were reported as out of service on June 25, 1965. Several units were put aside for possible preservation at that time; 2204, 2390-1-2, 2774-2775-2899. 2390-1-92 did operate to Queensboro Plaza on July 22, 1965 as part of Rapid Transit Day at the World's Fair. She was later returned to service on the No. 10 and possibly on the No. 16 and ran there until the end.

2774-2775-2899 was the last full three car set built by the Pressed Steel Car Company. She fell victim to the infamous October 1980 scraplist. Fortunately 2775 was rescued by Branford.

Larry, RedbirdR33

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 12 19:04:21 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Dec 12 18:37:17 2017.

That means it took the R32's to finish off Southern Division Standards, because the R30's were all delivered by 1961 or 62.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 19:22:43 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Express Rider on Tue Dec 12 15:39:42 2017.

how late (years) did the 2800s operate till their withdrawal?


All un-rebuilt Standards were reported as out of service on June 25, 1965. Several units were put aside for possible preservation at that time; 2204, 2390-1-2, 2774-2775-2899. 2390-1-92 did operate to Queensboro Plaza on July 22, 1965 as part of Rapid Transit Day at the World's Fair. She was later returned to service on the No. 10 and possibly on the No. 16 and ran there until the end.

2774-2775-2899 was the last full three car set built by the Pressed Steel Car Company. She fell victim to the infamous October 1980 scraplist. Fortunately 2775 was rescued by Branford.

Larry, RedbirdR33


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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Dec 12 20:16:02 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by randyo on Tue Dec 12 15:16:55 2017.

Multis on steroids!

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by murray1575 on Tue Dec 12 20:17:14 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 19:22:43 2017.

2390-1-2 did run on the 16 (lousy local). I rode it at least once and saw it several times on that line.

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(1458088)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Dec 12 20:18:30 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by murray1575 on Tue Dec 12 20:17:14 2017.

I may have ridden on that trio at some point in 1967-69, assuming they ran on Saturdays.

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(1458089)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Dec 12 20:19:20 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 12 13:08:53 2017.

As I said, my signbox has a GG LOCAL sign in the route curtain as well several add-on destination signs.

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(1458090)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Dec 12 20:22:23 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by randyo on Tue Dec 12 15:27:33 2017.

They undoubtedly would have loved standing inside instead of having to climb up and climb down at each stop!:)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Express Rider on Tue Dec 12 21:09:20 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by murray1575 on Tue Dec 12 20:17:14 2017.

I rode it on the Oct. 1967 (?) fantrip, and saw it in service the Canarsie line, spring 1968.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Express Rider on Tue Dec 12 21:10:21 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Dec 12 18:37:17 2017.

Thanks for the info.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Dec 12 21:42:12 2017, in response to [PHOTOS] The D-Type "Triplex" Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Dec 9 19:10:10 2017.

No fans??

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Dec 12 21:52:23 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 12 19:04:21 2017.



That means it took the R32's to finish off Southern Division Standards,

I did a quick survey. They were gone from the Brighton Line by January 1965, the Sea Beach Line by April 1965 and the West End Line by the fall of 1965. They stubbornly held onto the Culver and Franklin Shuttles. As late as April 1969 they held down about half of the L and M runs and were still on the Culver Shuttle. (Albeit with some gaps in-between).

Larry, RedbirdR33

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(1458118)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Dec 12 21:59:03 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by murray1575 on Tue Dec 12 20:17:14 2017.



I rode 2390-1-2 on the No. 10 back in 1968 before I went into the service. I did not ride it again until 2015 on the Brighton Line.

Larry, RedbirdR33



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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 13 07:07:39 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by murray1575 on Tue Dec 12 20:17:14 2017.

I remember seeing them on the "10"

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 13 07:15:00 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Dec 12 21:42:12 2017.

No fans??

Good observation.

These were the first units that were rebuilt to what they look like today. Perhaps they discovered fans were needed.

Bill Newkirk

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Express Rider on Wed Dec 13 11:51:52 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 13 07:15:00 2017.

In the 2nd 3rd & 5th photos, it doesn't look like destination sign boxes were installed yet.

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(1458141)

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Dec 13 12:26:23 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by SLRT on Sun Dec 10 15:23:54 2017.

Did the "C" cars have a similar setup?

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 13 15:45:56 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Express Rider on Wed Dec 13 11:51:52 2017.

In the 2nd 3rd & 5th photos, it doesn't look like destination sign boxes were installed yet.

I've noticed that too. Jeff Rosen commented on no ceiling fans.

Since this was the first unit, the BMT probably directed Pressed Steel to install ceiling fans and re-design the front.
Check out the photo below. The route & destination sign box was not mid car like in later units. It's located in the window to the left of the car number.


image host

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 16:43:39 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by murray1575 on Tue Dec 12 20:17:14 2017.

I broke in as a new C/R on 2390-1-2 in August of 1966 when it was laid up midday in Fresh pond Yd. I subsequently rode it on the 14 St Line several times when Traveling between towers as a lunch relief Tw/M. Later in the late fall of 1968 when I was breaking in as a M/M I laid it up to the yard in Canarsie.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 16:44:30 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Dec 12 20:16:02 2017.

Pretty much!

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 16:48:55 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Dec 13 12:26:23 2017.

Yes. When single C units operated on Fulton, C/Rs operated from inside the rear section.

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Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look

Posted by randyo on Thu Dec 14 16:54:30 2017, in response to Re: [PHOTOS] The D-Type ''Triplex'' Original Look, posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Dec 13 15:45:56 2017.

On the first 4 D units, the sign boxes were located as in the Photo and were similar if not identical to the ones on the 2500 and up ABs as well as the 4000 series trailers. They were also non illuminated as they were in the final configuration. As for the lack of fans, I have heard that the BRT and BMT like the IRT ordered car bodies and trucks and installed other equipment in the cars in their shop which at the time was a 39 St and 3 Ave where the present Costco store is now.

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