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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 12 20:46:34 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 12 20:40:32 2017.

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That's why it isn't done. No one is going to do that subway backtracking and bus shit.

Nilet is wrong as it is.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 12 20:52:33 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 12 20:35:12 2017.

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First of all, the true CDOT trains (1st stop Stamford) do skip Fordham. They don't skip 125th because there is a lot of demand for 125th to Stamford.

Second, on the Stamford locals, there is incredibly heavy demand for Fordham. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 busiest stops after GCT are 125th and Fordham.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 12 21:13:01 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 12 20:36:47 2017.

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Used to be that Newark was the first stop out of NYP. No Secaucus and certainly no Kearny or Harrison. And for Amtrak, NWK was (and still is, for some trains IIRC) board-only outbound and discharge-only inbound for westbound and southbound trains out of NYP; will NJT or Amtrak cops start arresting conductors now for enforcing such a rule?

Used to be stops in between GCT and 125th Street too. If they were still open today, would they be board-only outbound and discharge-only inbound?

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 12 21:30:07 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 12 21:13:01 2017.

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Amtrak trains are all reserved now. The system won't sell you a NYP-NWK ticket for train #151 and many others. Gate Dragons in NYP would catch you using the wrong ticket. I don't know Amtrak conductors do with anyone with a ticket for the wrong train. If there were Inspectors on board, he could get in trouble, and every e-ticket he scans is easily auditable.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 12 21:30:07 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 12 21:13:01 2017.

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Amtrak trains are all reserved now. The system won't sell you a NYP-NWK ticket for train #151 and many others. Gate Dragons in NYP would catch you using the wrong ticket. I don't know Amtrak conductors do with anyone with a ticket for the wrong train. If there were Inspectors on board, he could get in trouble, and every e-ticket he scans is easily auditable.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 12 21:31:22 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 12 20:40:32 2017.

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Fordham-ers will unfortunately need to take the 60/61/62 bus from New Rochelle.

As I mentioned previously in this thread, back in 1967 I had to do that because Stamford locals didn't stop at Fordham.

The Fordham stop isn't going away anymore than the M will ever stop going to 6th Ave now that it does. It's a life saver to thousands of people. It's very important to the economy of eastern Westchester.




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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:06 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Aug 12 20:40:32 2017.

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It's a small price to pay to make Nilet wrong, but as someone who does not live in the affected area, I think it's worth it.

HA! XD

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:08 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Italianstallion on Sat Aug 12 19:17:20 2017.

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LOL!

Since SubChat's culture of toxic masculinity forbids anyone from admitting they're wrong about any issue, however inconsequential, people who are demonstrably proven wrong have only a few outs to reclaim some semblance of "honour" before they depart.

The usual option is to shriek insults at the person who proved you wrong, desperately hoping to impugn their honour and thus recover yours.

But the other option is to accuse them of "obsession." Say, essentially, "the fact that you're right proves you have no life and are therefore dedicated to the incredibly difficult task of winning" even when there's no difficulty involved. Why? Because it's not about "winning," it's about SubChat's bizarre honour culture. If you can prove your opponent went to excessive lengths to win, their victory is Pyrrhic because the lost honour of "having no life" or whatever the argument says exceeds the honour of winning.

So what you're really saying is that you lost the argument and are trying to exit in a manner that obeys the dictates of SubChat's odd ideas of honour.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:10 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 12 19:14:36 2017.

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The "R" and the "D" have a real meaning.

That meaning does not entail "you can be arrested for theft of service if you ride the wrong train."

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:11 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 12 20:52:33 2017.

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First of all, the true CDOT trains (1st stop Stamford) do skip Fordham.

There are trains that stop at Fordham and then run express to Stamford.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:14 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 12 18:47:45 2017.

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When the Amtrak NEC was mostly unreserved, southbound, Newark Penn was sometimes an "R" stop. If you got on an NYPS headed to NWK witha NWK ticket on such a train, tough shit, you were charged the step up to Metropark.

And if you didn't pay, then tough shit for them.

That fact you intended to get off at NWK was completely irrelevant.

The fact that you did get off in NWK, on the other hand, was entirely relevant. Or at least it would have been if anybody had been arrested for theft of service.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:17 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Sat Aug 12 19:02:57 2017.

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Some express bus routes duplicate local ones for long stretches. If I board the BM3 at say Ocean Avenue and Avenue W in Brooklyn, dump $2.75 in the farebox (instead of the $6.50 I'm supposed to pay for a trip I'm supposed to take to Manhattan), take a seat and get off a couple of miles later at Glenwood Road

Is the bus $6.50 flat fare, or is it $2.75 to Glenwood Road and $6.50 to Manhattan? If the fare to Glenwood Road is $2.75, then you only have to pay $2.75 to Glenwood Road. If the fare is $6.50 flat, then you have to pay $6.50 flat.

(a pick-up only stop in that direction, but hey, maybe the door will open to receive intending passengers)

Does the bus definitely stop there or are you just hoping it does?

I've paid for a local trip

If the fare is $6.50 flat, then you haven't paid for a local trip; a local trip is $6.50 because that's the fare regardless of destination.

and my coins were "accepted" at the box

Were they accepted by the driver? If you put $2.75 in the box and the driver, knowing you have paid $2.75 because you have made no effort to conceal the amount of your payment, indicates you are good to go, then you can't be arrested for theft of service.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:19 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 12 18:41:05 2017.

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I never claimed that. I asked you to provide a citation that it isn't.

Can you provide a citation that it isn't illegal to walk from 59th and 5th to 57th and 7th while juggling two oranges and a toy hedgehog?

That's not how anything works. Anything not banned is legal; it's relatively rare to find laws specifically declaring something isn't a crime.

You might actually be correct. I just contend that you haven't established it.

How does one "establish" that it's legal? I can post the applicable penal law for theft of service, but you can easily move the goalposts and claim it doesn't specifically authorise the use of a valid ticket for travel on a train which has a letter in the timetable.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:22 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 12 18:37:18 2017.

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No, you proved yourself to be quite stupid in calling something a subsidy that was not with that idiotic land grant discussion, having no understanding of the revenue lost by the railroads, which had nothing to do with Buffalo Central Terminal anyway.

As I explained to you then, any consideration given to an industry by the government is a subsidy, whether it be cash, land, debt forgiveness, or anything else.

You tried to defend the asinine claim that only cash counted as a subsidy.

You stole services by not paying the minimum fare.

You did pay the fare. You bought a ticket from Grand Central to 125th, and then made that trip.

Also, it's nice to see you start by whining about what a big meanie I am for proving you wrong. Since that's how SubChatters admit they've lost a debate, you clearly understand from the outset that you're wrong.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Italianstallion on Sat Aug 12 22:55:54 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 12 21:31:22 2017.

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And the Fordham station has been expanded and improved as a consequence.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Italianstallion on Sat Aug 12 22:59:58 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:08 2017.

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Nah, I'm just bored.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Aug 12 23:08:47 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 17:41:36 2017.

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"It's called a "joke."

I apologise for misunderstandng. Upon re-reading, it now seems to me to be weak sarcasm rather than humor.

"...swears it's a crime for me to travel to. "

On this, I'm inclined to agree with you.NO, its not a "crime" to travel to travel to 125 on a train that you are not supposed to be on based on the public timetables and per se, its not an arrestible offense.
BUT it is a crime to refuse to pay the fare requested for passage by the conductor and if applicable, the appropriate penalty, based on the rules he/she has to follow and that he/she could be subject to discipline .
If that fare request is justified, it must be paid, straight answer. If you feel that the fare is unjustified, you still must pay the fare requested & take your beef to commuter relations for a ruling.
Thats where the arrest issue comes in. Not for riding or detraining, but for refusing to pay for passage requested by the conductor. It seems to be a splitting hairs deal, but the bottom line is this, you can get on and off a train without getting arrested, providing you pay what you are supposed to.

...and to all a good night!

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 23:32:14 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Aug 12 23:08:47 2017.

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On this, I'm inclined to agree with you.NO, its not a "crime" to travel to travel to 125 on a train that you are not supposed to be on based on the public timetables and per se, its not an arrestible offense.

Exactly.

BUT it is a crime to refuse to pay the fare requested for passage by the conductor and if applicable, the appropriate penalty, based on the rules he/she has to follow and that he/she could be subject to discipline.

Not necessarily. The conductor is expected to collect the fare appropriate to your trip; nothing more. If the conductor demands in excess of the appropriate fare, you have every right to refuse to pay the excess, and you cannot be arrested for that.

If that fare request is justified, it must be paid, straight answer. If you feel that the fare is unjustified, you still must pay the fare requested & take your beef to commuter relations for a ruling.

So if the conductor demands $10 million, you're obliged to pay $10 million and then go to commuter relations to ask for it back?

Thats where the arrest issue comes in. Not for riding or detraining, but for refusing to pay for passage requested by the conductor. It seems to be a splitting hairs deal, but the bottom line is this, you can get on and off a train without getting arrested, providing you pay what you are supposed to.

Exactly. The trouble is that some people in this thread fail to understand that "paying what you're supposed to" means paying the fare for your trip. If you're going to 125th, you pay the fare to 125th. If the conductor demands a ticket to Mount Vernon, you can simply tell the conductor that you're not going to Mount Vernon.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:25:06 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:14 2017.

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No it isn't relevant.

You didn't pay the minimum fair. Getting off earlier than the fare demanded does not make it OK..

Only in virtual World of Nilet does it make sense.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:25:57 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:11 2017.

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So what.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:27:06 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:10 2017.

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Yes it does.
To you it has no meaning and can be completely disregarded, but you are a foamer that things he can work the system however he wants.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:28:44 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:22 2017.

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You proved my point AGAIN.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:33:23 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:22 2017.

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You also sound like the Turtle - same immaturity and self righteousness.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:47:38 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:14 2017.

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Tough shit for them ? Really.
Refusing to pay the Metropark fare on the train before NWK may have gotten you greeted by Amtrak Police at NWK, depending on the conductor, but with anyone with an obnoxious, know-it-all attitude, like you, most definitely.


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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 13 07:27:50 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 22:10:11 2017.

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True, there are a few. They don't change my point. And obviously they exist because CT wants them.


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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:31:02 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:25:06 2017.

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You didn't pay the minimum fair. Getting off earlier than the fare demanded does not make it OK.

The "minimum fare" is the fare to your destination. If your destination is NWK, you owe the fare to NWK. If your destination is 125, you owe the fare to 125. If the fare is flat regardless of destination, you owe the flat fare.

I'm not sure why you can't understand the simple concept of only having to pay for the services you actually use, but then I wasn't sure why you couldn't understand the concept of a subsidy either so maybe being deliberately obtuse is just your thing.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:31:06 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:47:38 2017.

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Refusing to pay the Metropark fare on the train before NWK may have gotten you greeted by Amtrak Police at NWK, depending on the conductor

Citation needed. Name a case of someone actually being convicted of theft of service for riding an Amtrak train to Newark with a valid ticket to Newark.

but with anyone with an obnoxious, know-it-all attitude, like you, most definitely.

Ah, that's a prime example of SubChat's toxic masculinity honour culture. Since this bizarre culture prescribes a tremendous loss of honour for being wrong about any statement of fact however inconsequential, you find yourself forced to argue a point everyone knows is bullshit in the hope of recovering some of the honour you lost by being wrong.

However, the flip side to this is that correcting someone on a statement of fact, however inconsequential, is by its nature an attack— if I correct you, I am explicitly impugning your honour by saying you were wrong.

Which is why, of all the many kindergarten playground insults you could have shrieked at me, you quickly reached for "obnoxious know-it-all." In context, there's a certain logic to that— the mere fact that I know something you don't is itself obnoxious according to SubChat's ridiculous honour culture, and "know-it-all" is a fitting insult for the person who has corrected you on an issue of fact in a forum where having been wrong about an issue of fact is considered to devalue you as a person.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:31:11 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:27:06 2017.

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Yes it does.

Citation needed.

To you it has no meaning and can be completely disregarded...

Actually, if you learned some reading comprehension, you'll notice what I actually said is that if you ride from Grand Central to 125th while in possession of a ticket from Grand Central to 125th (or sufficient cash to buy one on board), then you have not committed theft of services or any other criminal offense.

The existence of a "D" or "R" printed in a timetable that few people read in detail does not magically make it a criminal offense to take the journey you paid for.

...but you are a foamer that things he can work the system however he wants.

You're the only one foaming here.

I pointed out the facts and you flew into a frothing rage that reality doesn't work the way you arbitrarily decided it should.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:31:15 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:28:44 2017.

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Only in your delusional little world, where the government giving free land to a private company isn't a subsidy and paying for services is the same thing as stealing them.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:31:18 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:33:23 2017.

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Says the person who is shrieking childish insults because he can't accept he was wrong about a trivial fact, namely that paying for services is not the same thing as stealing them.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:35:23 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 06:25:57 2017.

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So AlM has the maturity to accept a correction on an inconsequential statement of fact without flying into a shrieking rage that the person supplying the correction is a pompous obnoxious know-it-all— a maturity he shares with every adult on the planet.

Perhaps you could learn something from him.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Italianstallion on Sun Aug 13 09:15:40 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sat Aug 12 23:32:14 2017.

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You are going to Mt. Vernon. That R in the timetable means you can't get off at 125th. And that's part of the conditions of carriage, or rules and regs, which are part of the law.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 09:25:36 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Italianstallion on Sun Aug 13 09:15:40 2017.

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You are going to Mt. Vernon.

You are going to 125th. You went to 125th.

That R in the timetable means you can't get off at 125th.

You just did.

If you get off at 125th, then you went to 125th and you need to pay the fare to 125th. Why is this so hard to understand?

And that's part of the conditions of carriage

Which is a contract. Breach of contract isn't a crime, so you can't be arrested for it. In theory, the MTA has the right to sue you, but in practice, suing someone over $2.75 is impossible.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 09:26:16 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Italianstallion on Sat Aug 12 22:59:58 2017.

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So you're amusing yourself by deliberately arguing a point you know is false?

That's called "trolling."

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 13:45:45 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 12 15:13:42 2017.

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What ICC rule? It was a contract between the New Haven and the New York Central. The former rented trackage rights from the latter; the latter demanded a non-compete clause in the agreement.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 13 15:47:36 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 09:25:36 2017.

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Yes, counselor.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:24:47 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:35:23 2017.

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Perhaps you could instead, because you are a pompous, igororant bag of gas.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:27:35 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:31:02 2017.

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The minimum fare is to the trains first discharge stop. You do not get to decide where that is. That is what you can't get through your thick skull.

Since you equate loans to be paid back, as land grants were, with subsidies, which are not paid back, you are hopelessly ignorant, and cannot learn.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:29:03 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:31:06 2017.

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"that's a prime example of SubChat's toxic masculinity honour culture"

And YOU are Exhibit A. Everything you say is WRONG.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:30:26 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:31:15 2017.

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The land grant was not a gift. It has been explained to you many times why it was not.

You are too stupid to learn anything.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:31:06 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 07:31:18 2017.

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I am right, and you are wrong. Nothing childish about saying that.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:32:44 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 09:25:36 2017.

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Try shoplifting for something that is worth $2.75. You'll be in the police blotter. A foamer like you getting away with something does not make it legal.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:35:26 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by italianstallion on Sun Aug 13 15:47:36 2017.

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But he isn't, that's just it.

I have a Finance MBA with a 3.4 GPA with course work in business law, real estate fiance, investment banking, managerial accounting, and corporate finance, which is how I know he's a phony, and full of shit. AND this stupid squirt thinks he can lecture me.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 21:58:08 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:24:47 2017.

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1

A

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 21:58:13 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:27:35 2017.

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The minimum fare is to the trains first discharge stop.

Actually, the minimum fare on a New Haven train is $2.75, which is for a one-zone intra-Connecticut trip. If you're in New York, you'll be paying considerably more than that.

So if you board at Grand Central and are discharged at 125th, you owe the fare from which station to which station?

You do not get to decide where that is. That is what you can't get through your thick skull.

Metro-North has decided that the first stop on every northbound off-peak train and most northbound peak trains is 125th Street.

If you board a train at Grand Central and disembark from that train at the first stop, which is 125th Street, then you owe the fare between Grand Central and 125th Street.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that you have to pay for the trip that you take, and not for a trip that you didn't take? If a contract specifies a certain minimum purchase, then you are contractually obligated to pay for the minimum purchase, but breach of contract is not actually a crime.

Since you equate loans to be paid back, as land grants were

Land grants were not loans to be paid back. They were gifts of land to the railroads— the gift came with a string attached, but the cost of the string was less than the value of the land and being allowed to buy something for less than its value is a subsidy.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 21:58:22 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:29:03 2017.

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And YOU are Exhibit A. Everything you say is WRONG.

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about. You made a false claim about a trivial question of fact. You were proven wrong. Now, SubChat's honour culture forbids you to admit it, so you're stuck throwing a temper tantrum in a desperate attempt to reclaim your lost honour.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 21:58:25 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:30:26 2017.

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The land grant was not a gift.

Yes it was. The gift came with a string attached - preferential rates for the government - but (a) that string costs less than the value of the free land, and (b) the government waived their claim to preferential rates in the 40s, thus giving the railroads another subsidy.

It has been explained to you many times why it was not.

On the contrary. The closest to evidence you came up with was the government's decision to subsidise the railroads further in the 1940s by waiving the preferential rates they gained as the one concession for their land grants; you tried to harp on the exact words of the comments one official made about the subsidy to prove that neither it nor the land grants ever happened.

I explained to you exactly why you were wrong. Unfortunately, you are too stupid to learn anything.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 21:58:27 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:31:06 2017.

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I am right, and you are wrong. Nothing childish about saying that.

Ouch, talk about an own goal.

Did you stamp your feet and pout while writing that?

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 21:58:30 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:32:44 2017.

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Try shoplifting for something that is worth $2.75.

What does that have to do with anything? Oh right, in your delusional world, it's "stealing" to refuse to pay for something you never had.

Try walking into my store. Once you're inside, I'll inform you that there's a minimum $2.75 purchase. If you don't buy at least $2.75 worth of merchandise then you won't be allowed to leave— and if you do leave empty-handed, then I'll have you arrested for "stealing" the $2.75 that you owe me because my store has a $2.75 minimum purchase.

In roughly your own words— The minimum purchase is the amount specified. You do not get to decide what that is. That is what you can't get through your thick skull.

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Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested

Posted by Nilet on Sun Aug 13 21:58:33 2017, in response to Re: On-Duty Metro-North Conductor Arrested, posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 13 20:35:26 2017.

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I have a Finance MBA with a 3.4 GPA with course work in business law, real estate fiance, investment banking, managerial accounting, and corporate finance

Why does everyone who loses an argument feel the need to point to their nonexistent credentials in the very subject they just proved they know nothing about?

It's obvious you don't have any of the credentials you're claiming because you don't know anything about law or finance— you don't even know how contracts work.

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