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Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 12 08:09:00 2017 Tuscarora Almanac - May 12, 1955 - The Book of Last Runs New York City Transit Authority IRT Division This is May 12, 1955, a Thursday and one of the very dark days in the history of the New York City Transit System. It is the last day of service on the 3rd Avenue El between the 149th Street Station in The Bronx and the Chatham Square Terminal in Manhattan. The last train left from the Chatham Square Terminal at 6:00 PM. It consisted of six MUDC motor cars; 1662, 1778, 1753, 1780, 1668 and 1671. A Look Back May 12, 1955 was a sad, sad day for New Yorkers with the closure of the last of the Manhattan Els. The last train left Chatham Square a little after 6:00 PM and arrived at 149 Street about 7:15 PM, about 45 minutes late. The train consisted of six MUDC cars and was marshaled as follows; (n) 1662-1778-1753-1780-1668-1671 (s). It was crowded with railfans and other last riders. The 3 Avenue El originally extended from South Ferry north to 129 Street with a branch on 42 Street to Grand Central Depot and another branch on 34 Street to the East River. There was also a branch to City Hall. Service began between South Ferry and Grand Central on August 26, 1878 and was extended to 129 Street by December 30, 1878. The line north of 129 Street was built by the Suburban Railway Company and was actually the fifth el. It ran as far north as Bronx Park and its also had a branch that ran to the Willis Avenue Station of the NY,NH and Hartford Railroad. Due to the fact that this el ran along 3 Avenue between 149 Street and Fordham Road it quickly became identified with the Manhattan El of the same name even though it was also used by 2 Avenue El trains. Service from 129 Street north began on May 17, 1886 and reached 149 Street by June 16, 1887. At its peak 3 Avenue El trains ran all the way between East 241 Street-White Plains Road and South Ferry. With the closure of the southern portion of the 2 Avenue El on June 13, 1942 the 3 Avenue El became the last el line in Manhattan. It was the sad fate of the 3 Avenue El to suffer “the death of 1,000 cuts.” The branch lines went first. The 42 Street Spur closed on December 6, 1923, the Harlem River Branch on or about April 14, 1924 and the 34 Street Branch on July 14, 1930. The mainline itself was closed between Chatham Square and South Ferry on December 22, 1950 although the very last train may have run in the early am hours of December 23. On this date also all el trains where cut back to Gun Hill Road from East 241 Street. The spur between Fordham Road and Bronx Park closed on November 14, 1951 and the line between Chatham Square and City Hall closed on December 31, 1953. The surviving portion of the el in The Bronx between 149 Street and Gun Hill Road lasted until April 28, 1973. (The last regular train actually ran in the early hours of April 29.) Sources: ERA Headlights , July 1955 NYD Bulletins (various issues) ERA All-Time Map of IRT Routes My own records. Tuscarora Almanac – May 12, 2015 – The Book of Wrecks Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Amtrak Northeast Corridor Line Northeast Regional Train No. 188 derails at Frankford Junction. The engine and seven cars leave the tracks. Eight people are killed and two hundred injured. The engine, a brand new Cites Sprinter ACS-64 No. 601 was heavily damaged. The seven Amfleet coaches were 81528, 82776, 82644, 43346, 82761, 82797 and 82981. Source: ERA Bulletin /June 2015 Thanks to Bzuck for the consist information. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 12 08:12:20 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 12 08:09:00 2017. Seriously sad indeed. The Third Ave El remains unreplaced even to this day. While I'm glad we have 3 stations on the SAS, it's nowhere near a true replacement. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 12 11:14:50 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 12 08:09:00 2017. Indeed a sad day for New York. A sad day for all those who used the El & now had to cram into the Lex Av line. I know its a subject beaten to death here and on other forums, they should have left the line up until the 2nd Av Subway was built to its full length. But anti El sentiment coupled with Robert Moses' desire to strangle the city with highways w/o any transit improvements, the El's fate was pretty much sealed.Not everyone was sad however. Enter real estate speculators & developers who were about to cash in big time with the El's demise. Knowing that real estate values were about to go thru the roof, makes me wonder if & how much $$$ was exchanged under the table to get the City to rip the line down. One may never know. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri May 12 14:00:10 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 12 08:09:00 2017. I would love to go back into time to ride the Third Avenue El. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Fri May 12 18:33:28 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 12 08:09:00 2017. One of the biggest transit-related blunders of all time. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 12 18:41:08 2017, in response to Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 12 08:09:00 2017. Why a Thursday? |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri May 12 20:50:27 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 12 18:41:08 2017. I asked the same question, years ago. The answer I was given was that some of the TA workers from the 3rd Ave el would be laid off or bump somebody with less seniority. Payday, at the time, was on Thursdays. I have to accept that because nobody else had another explanation. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri May 12 22:06:11 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Union Tpke on Fri May 12 14:00:10 2017. I'll never forget the 3rd Ave el ride I had with my great-uncle. We walked from Hull Ave to 204th Street station, got an AM rush hour set of Q cars, and rode to Chatham Square. As soon as everyone got off, it left the terminal empty. The view of lower Manhattan from the south end of that upper platform was beautiful- and scary. We then took a train of vestibuled MUDS back to 204th Street. It was Easter vacation in 1955 and, one month later, the el was closed forever. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by zac on Sat May 13 05:12:01 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 12 11:14:50 2017. But until the last few years, the midtwon east area was basically undeveloped from 43st up to around 47th. I had an office on a high floor and you could see the wall of buildings that started at Lex. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Sat May 13 10:46:13 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Elkeeper on Fri May 12 20:50:27 2017. At the lecture yesterday (5/12/2017) in the Transit Museum, Andrew Sparberg said if the NYCTA had chose to, it would have been on Friday the 13th! He claimed that would have been superstitious if had been done back then, particularly if the notice was to have printed for that day.-William A. Padron ["149"] |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 13 14:08:36 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by William A. Padron on Sat May 13 10:46:13 2017. I know that the circumstances were different, but the 9th Ave el and the 2nd Ave el, north of 60th St, both ended service on Tuesday, June 11th, 1940. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by randyo on Sat May 13 15:20:35 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 12 18:41:08 2017. Until sometime in the early 1960s, the IRT payroll week ran from Friday to Thursday so all IRT service changes would go into effect on a Friday. With Thursday being the last day of the IRT’s payroll week, it made sense for the 3 Av El to cease operations on a Thursday. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat May 13 20:25:05 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 12 11:14:50 2017. That guy whom the city's first Real airport is named after had a serious haye on for elevated trains.If it was up to him,All of those lines would be gone. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 13 21:27:17 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Edwards! on Sat May 13 20:25:05 2017. Between building the IND 6th Ave subway, buying out the BMT, IRT, and Manhattan Railway, demolition costs, and legal fights, LaGuardia almost bankrupted NYC. He never considered the costs of the whole Unification process. Laguardia liked Thomas E Murray Jr's theory that the IRT could be debt free minus the Manhattan els. But it cost a lot more. Murray was the very capable receiver of the bankrupt IRT, who, in 1938, almost succeeded in spinning off the MER els. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 13 21:30:03 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by randyo on Sat May 13 15:20:35 2017. Now, I remember it! |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun May 14 20:16:56 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 13 21:27:17 2017. LaGuardia was simply a very overrated mayor. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 15 15:03:06 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun May 14 20:16:56 2017. Most of the memories that people have of LaGuardia are the videos of him reading the funnies during the newspaper strike. Nobody wants to discusshis sinister side. Like how he made sure that one of his top campaign contributors, Albert A Volk, got the lucrative demolition contract (10.24 miles) to take down the 9th Ave el. That was the largest single route demolition in NYC history. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon May 15 20:17:47 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri May 12 11:14:50 2017. That was in hindsight a real mistake:What those in real estate failed to take into account was those properties were likely going to become just as valuable anyway had the 3rd Avenue EL remained and if anything might have become more valuable with the EL still there in my opinion, especially with the density the UES now has. My view as noted before on this is had the EL remained, it would have likely seen two rebuilds: The first in the late 1950s-early 1960s after the Park Row branch is redirected and becomes the Chambers Street Branch, This would have likely strengthened the line considerably to allow for 10-car trains and with it, consolidation of stations like this in Manhattan: 47th & 53rd Street both eliminated and replaced by a new stop at 50th Street 59th Street becomes an express stop if possible 76th Street moved three blocks north to a new stop 79th Street 84th & 89th Streets both eliminated and replaced by a new stop at 86th Street and that make into an express stop if possible. There also would be some consolidation in the Bronx. Tranfers would also have been made possible with other lines at varying stops. What would be then have likely been the Chambers Street Branch I suspect would have seen two extensions southward: the first around 1971 when the World Trade Center opened to Liberty Place and Church Street and a second extension around 1982-'83 or so to Battery Park City, ending by going to Battery Place and after going west actually going a little north at the very end to West Thames Street. With the extensions, this also would become the main branch of the line by 1971 and be the (8) with South Ferry becoming the (9). The second rebuild would have been after 9/11 and would likely have included moving the 59th Street stop north to 60th-63rd Street so it included transfers to both the Lex & Broadway Lines at 60th & the (F) (and now (Q)) at 63rd. At this point, a third branch is possibly added that would have followed the (8) along Worth, but staying on Worth all the way to West Broadway and eventually winding up on West Street and ending at what is now Brookfield Place (then the World Financial Center). This to me is what would have happened if people had the foresight to see the future need for the line. Of course, we first would have had to get through the financial crisis of the 1970's and so forth. |
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Re: Correction |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 16 07:59:24 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon May 15 20:17:47 2017. I said:>>My view as noted before on this is had the EL remained, it would have likely seen two rebuilds:>> >>The first in the late 1950s-early 1960s after the Park Row branch is redirected and becomes the Chambers Street Branch, This would have likely strengthened the line considerably to allow for 10-car trains and with it, consolidation of stations like this in Manhattan:>> >>47th & 53rd Street both eliminated and replaced by a new stop at 50th Street>> That should have been changed to 47th simply being eliminated and 42nd moved north with a new exit at 44th Street (but also at the south end with a transfer to the (7) and all the other lines there). Likewise, 53rd would have been rebuilt to include a transfer to then the (E) and (F) (and now (E) (M) and (6)) at 53rd. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue May 16 14:59:46 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon May 15 20:17:47 2017. I would suspect that had the 3 Av El been rebuilt to ore modern (dual contract) standards that when the time came for the subway to Queens, it might have been located at 61 St rather than 63 which is, by the way what the local population of the neighborhood actually wanted and unsuccessfully campaigned for. As for the rest of it, The stations on the line would have been lengthened to accommodate full 10 car trains and the resulting platform extensions would have of course necessitated the elimination of some stations and the consolidation of other ones. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 17 08:22:49 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by randyo on Tue May 16 14:59:46 2017. That would have made more sense:With what we have known as the 63rd Street tunnel on 61st, it would have meant simply adding a transfer to that station and if necessary moving the 59th street station far enough north to include both that transfer AND the 60th Street transfers (meaning the OOS transfer between the (F) at 63rd and Lexington Avenue lines at 60th would technically have not been needed since that transfer would have been available via the 3rd Avenue EL platform and likewise an easy transfer to both Queensbound lines (as well as the lines at 53rd from that stop). That would have been part of the second rebuild post-9/11 that also would have brought the line up to CBTC and allowed for the heavier NTT trains to use the line (and would have likely been the first IRT line to be CBTC, with what likely would have been a new third branch to Brookfield Place being CBTC from the get-go). The Manhattan Stops now would probably be this on the part where both or all three lines (depending on whether Brookfield Place would have been built post-9/11) would be: Chatam Square (Canal Street eliminated) Grand Street (likely rebuilt if possible to include transfers to the B, D and J) Houston Street St. Mark's Place (9th Street stop moved south and no longer express) 14th Street (Transfer to (L) and now an express stop) 23rd Street 34th Street 42nd Street (express stop, Transfer to 4/5/6/7/S, north exit at 44th Street) 53rd Street (47th Street eliminated, new express stop and Transfer to E/M/6) 60th Street (New express stop, Transfer to 4/5/6/F/N/Q/R/W) 68th Street (moved from 67th Street with north exit at 70th) 79th Street (moved from 76th Street with south exit at 77th) 86th Street (84th & 89th Street stations eliminated and new express stop) 96th Street (moved from 99th Street) 106th Street (no longer an express stop) 116th Street 125th Street (could have been rebuilt to be short-turn terminal) |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 17 09:05:10 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 17 08:22:49 2017. Forgot to note in the previous post:28th Street would have been eliminated and 34th Street would have had a south exit at 32nd Street to compensate for that. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 17 13:20:53 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 17 08:22:49 2017. The 2nd Ave. el should have been retained, not 3rd. It was newer, better built and had the ability to connect to all the Bronx 3rd Ave routes as well as Queens. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 17 13:49:29 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 17 13:20:53 2017. Except that non-rush hour ridership was light, between 57th St-129th St.The section from Queensboro Plaza to Chatham Square was kept open mainly for the 1939 World's Fair. When that closed on 10/27/40, ridership on the remaining section began a decline. After May 19th, 1941, all Sunday and daily services, from 9:30PM-12:30AM, were eliminated. At that time, the ridership just wasn't there. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 17 15:46:11 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 17 13:49:29 2017. The lack of ridership may have been a factor, however if the 3 Av el were eliminated first,east side ridership would probably have shifted to the 2 Av as the only other alternative to the Lex. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 17 15:49:34 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 17 08:22:49 2017. Actually if I had to eliminate any station, it would be Chatham Sq and retain Canal. I might move Canal a bit south with a S/E entrance closer to Chatham Sq to compensate. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 17 16:54:55 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Wallyhorse on Mon May 15 20:17:47 2017. Wally, this is interesting speculation. But given the politics of the day, there was no way whatsoever the el could have survived. As I'm sure you know, it survived the 1940s on the premise that the SAS would replace it. Then, in the 1950s, the powers that were said, essentially, "F*** that. Tear it down now".62 years later, we're still waiting for a real SAS. Yes, I'm grateful we got the Stubway. But we all know it's not enough. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 17 17:00:54 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by randyo on Wed May 17 15:49:34 2017. That makes sense. Those locations are so close together that 2 stations are unnecessary. One properly situated one would be more efficient. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 17 17:35:41 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by randyo on Wed May 17 15:46:11 2017. Yep. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed May 17 18:09:54 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Elkeeper on Mon May 15 15:03:06 2017. There have been a number of books about LaGuardia and his terms as Mayor - did you find this fact in one of them? If so, could you tell me the title and/or author please? It sounds like it would be one of the better books to read about him.Thanks. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 17 18:22:37 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 17 13:49:29 2017. Without the 3rd Ave el, the 2nd Ave el's ridership would have gone way up. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 17 19:58:06 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 17 17:35:41 2017. Interestingly, there was no significant uptick in 3rd Ave el ridership, when the 2nd Ave el, from 57th St-129th St was closed on 6/11/40. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 17 20:23:27 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 17 16:54:55 2017. The entire Manhattan 3rd Ave el, from City Hall to 149th St, had been slated for closing on 12/31/1953. Public outcry was so loud that the TA just amputated the City Hall spur, on the premise that new aproaches were needed for the Brooklyn Bridge. However, they tested the waters on Sept 24th, 1954, when they eliminated the center track at 149th/3rd, in anticipation of the el's closure, south of there. I have never read anything about protesting the changeover at 149th St in 1954. So, it was closed less than 8 months later.As for rebuilding the 3rd Ave el, that was never in the cards. Most of the monies from the impounded 1951 transit bond issue had been earmarked for other projects and for new equipment. But, assuming there was money for that, most New Yorkers wanted a subway under 2nd Ave, not a rebuilt traffic hazard on 3rd Ave. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed May 17 21:50:06 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 17 20:23:27 2017. However, they tested the waters on Sept 24th, 1954, when they eliminated the center track at 149th/3rd, in anticipation of the el's closure, south of there. Elkeeper: I recall seeing the workman building the platform over the express track. It was right after Hurricane Hazel hit NYC in early October. My mother, great aunt and I where enroute to LGA to meet my great uncle who was flying in from the coast. My aunt wanted to take one last ride on the el because she heard that it was closing When we got to the airport we found that the parking lots where under about three feet of water. My uncle ended up landing in Newark. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Thu May 18 01:50:55 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 17 17:00:54 2017. Exactly:One or the other, not both were needed, especially with 10-car platforms. Canal probably would have made more sense in retrospect, especially if you by say 2003-'04 had THREE branches on the 3rd Avenue EL as I suspect they would have used a post-9/11 rebuild to add a third branch to Brookfield Place that would have likely been known as the (10) line. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 18 06:58:30 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 17 20:23:27 2017. Yeah, they killed it bit by bit, making an individualized excuse each time. Until the remnant was hardly worth defending. |
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Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12 |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu May 18 07:09:17 2017, in response to Re: Tuscarora Almanac for May 12, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun May 14 20:16:56 2017. I agree. He sold, or maybe even gave away, the City to Moses. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 18 11:12:34 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Wallyhorse on Thu May 18 01:50:55 2017. LOL! |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu May 18 17:29:16 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 17 18:22:37 2017. Was the 2nd Ave el structure more rickity than the 3rd Ave ?No matter, Mayor LaGuardia wanted them all gone don't matter what. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu May 18 19:14:57 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Elkeeper on Wed May 17 19:58:06 2017. Where did the 2nd Ave el passengers go then ? |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 18 20:04:20 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Joe V on Thu May 18 19:14:57 2017. The 2nd Ave el, as I said, had good ridership during rush hours. But, that would have been mostly people from the Bronx, north of 57th St. And also from Queens, via the Queensboro Bridge to 57th St to/from South Ferry and City Hall. Remember, there were only 2 car trains mid-day, to/from 129 St. After closures, some of them went to the 3rd Ave el, TARS streetcars, or buses on 1st and 2nd Ave. The 2nd Ave el carried about 30 milion fares per year. After June 11th, 1940 (el abandoned north of 57th St) and June 13th, 1942 (abandoned south of 57th St), those riders did not gravitate to the 3rd Ave el, en masse. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu May 18 20:15:13 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 17 18:22:37 2017. I think a lot of riders would have gone to the Lexington Ave subway. laguardia wanted to keep the 3rd Ave el and lower 2nd Ave el, until the SAS could be built. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 19 13:21:07 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Joe V on Thu May 18 17:29:16 2017. Actually, the 2 Av structure was stronger than the 3 Av. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri May 19 20:26:18 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by randyo on Wed May 17 15:46:11 2017. Had they done that shift to the 2nd Ave el, would it have run late nights? The approx 12:30AM-5:30AM daily closure dates back to its opening. It never ran 24/7, like its counterpart on 3rd Ave. |
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Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 21 18:20:03 2017, in response to Re: If the 3rd Avenue EL had been rebuilt/Queens transfer, posted by Elkeeper on Fri May 19 20:26:18 2017. If the 2 Av had been the last el standing then I suspect it would have started running all night since it would have been the only east side el. |
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