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Re: SAS Use This Week |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 19 19:07:33 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Sun Feb 19 16:32:19 2017. I still get my fix every fall. |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 19 19:40:03 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Michael549 on Sun Feb 19 17:55:10 2017. I have the large copies for all of the boroughs that were given to me. I love looking at them. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 19 20:06:21 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 19 17:29:43 2017. One of the TA's practices has been to have its computer operations perform exactly what used to be done manually. This guarantees that computer systems will perform no better than the manual operations it replaced.The computer system accumulates turnstile counts every six minutes. However, the outputs are available in 4 hour chunks. This way the public has no easy way of gauging whether the TA is making any effort to have service meet demand. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: SAS Use This Week |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 19 20:06:21 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 19 17:29:43 2017. One of the TA's practices has been to have its computer operations perform exactly what used to be done manually. This guarantees that computer systems will perform no better than the manual operations it replaced.The computer system accumulates turnstile counts every six minutes. However, the outputs are available in 4 hour chunks. This way the public has no easy way of gauging whether the TA is making any effort to have service meet demand. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 19 20:14:20 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 19 18:01:54 2017. Several things make that murky. NYCTA has shifted what should be operating expenses into capital costs. The useful life of rolling stock and other equipment has been shortened by lack of adequate maintenance.Regarding sharing of costs. New York State assumed the responsibility for capital costs, when the Transit Authority was formed back in 1953. New York City also lost effective control over the NYCTA. The mayor appointed only 1 of 3 board members. You will have to go back to the TA's predecessor, the Board of Transportation, when NYC was financially responsible for and had control over subway operation. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 19 20:20:52 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Michael549 on Sun Feb 19 17:55:10 2017. It was Edwards who made that comment. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Feb 19 20:21:17 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 19 20:14:20 2017. another tale opf unintended results. My vision of why control was "lost" was to decouple Mayoral elections from fare increases. |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 19 20:25:35 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 19 20:14:20 2017. Are you completely sure of that? My understanding was that while the NYCTA was a state “created” agency charged with operation of the transit system, the actual ownership of the subway infrastructure and rolling stock remained with the city of NY. The original property plates on the NYCTS rolling stock indicate them to be property of the City of NY with the exception of a portion of the R-32s (designated R-32A I believe) which were specifically purchased by the NYCTA and not the city. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 19 20:25:44 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 19 20:14:20 2017. If that was completely true,Abe Beame would not have been able to shut down SAS subway construction in the 70s in the manner he did. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 19 20:40:53 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 19 02:10:40 2017. No Manhattan north terminal.Through service from Brooklyn through Manhattan to Queens via 63rd st. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 19 22:46:58 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 19 20:25:44 2017. The TA became part of the MTA, under Lindsay. This removed what little influence the mayor had because the MTA was answerable only to the governor.The Financial Control Board (controlled by the governor) made the mayor only the bearer of bad tidings. The mayor could not open his mouth without approval from Carey. |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Feb 20 00:21:50 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 19 20:06:21 2017. Do you believe it is still possible to improve operations to max service to meet demand if its not currently? |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 20 03:30:10 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 19 16:30:59 2017. "Not while the MTA spends what little capital money that's available on costly and unnecessary projects. Among these are CBTC, the Fulton Hub, South Ferry and the SAS."Please note that the funds that supported the construction of the Fulton Transit Center, the new South Ferry #1 Terminal, and new the World Trade Center complex all came to New York City because some freaking terrorists decided to plow two airplanes into two skyscrapers killing thousands of folks. A couple of victims lived in my building. The downtown area was a complete mess for years afterward. Those federal re-construction funds could only be used on projects within downtown Manhattan - a fact that was well known. Yes, I know that some transit fans and others complained, moaned and groaned that those funds could not be used on other projects located elsewhere in the city - but it is provider of the funds that gets to set the rules. Yeah, plenty of folks have complained over the years about the decisions made or not made since those events. Reflection upon the many lives that were lost, the many folks that were damaged, and the destruction to our city is needed and useful. Just my thoughts. Mike |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 20 03:32:50 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Union Tpke on Sun Feb 19 19:40:03 2017. Good To Know!Mike |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 20 06:24:33 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by BusRider on Mon Feb 20 00:21:50 2017. The physical structure that permitted 33% higher peak hour service levels is intact. There's no reason why similar service levels could not be achieved today, using the same physical structure. The major physical impediment is the lack of rolling stock. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 20 06:34:20 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 20 03:30:10 2017. Both South Ferry and the Fulton Transit Center were outside the World Trade Center damage area. The expenditure of federal funds to cover WTC damage was a stretch.Ironically, opportunities were lost in not improving tracks within the WTC site. One major omission was not providing turnaround and stub tracks south of Chambers for the local. This could have been incorporated into the rebuilt Cortlandt St station. Instead, the MTA opted to dust off the 1910 Dual Contract blueprints and restore the original geometry. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Feb 20 08:16:54 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 20 06:34:20 2017. They should have used the 9/11 funds to renovate Nassau/Chambers instead of new South Ferry. |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Feb 20 08:55:19 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 20 06:24:33 2017. So from a schedules point of view, there's still hope? Wishful thinking MTA gets more trainsets. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 20 09:41:49 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 20 03:30:10 2017. If they wanted to do something useful with the WTC bathtub exposed, they could have extended the Lex local tracks from the City Hall loop as tangents and be adjacent to a new stub end terminal for PATH at the WTC.The new WTC PATH station and FTC does nothing to improve train operations. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 20 09:56:04 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by BusRider on Mon Feb 20 08:55:19 2017. There are plenty of ways today's limited rolling stock could be better utilized. I mentioned only the physical impediment to restoring service levels to what they were half a century ago.The major impediment to better service is managerial. The perception is that the MTA can get away with what they currently provide. Any questions regarding more service are met with requests for $$$$. That usually quiets the malcontents. Very few people have investigated whether the MTA's denial of service improvement is factually based and by how much. The problem isn't limited to MTA management. Their reward for improved service is usually a cut in funding from NYC or NYS. Their income streams are siphoned off like Cuomo's $64 million cut in state aid in this year's budget. This means their management has been populated by time servers who are waiting for their pensions to kick in. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Feb 20 09:59:08 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 20 06:34:20 2017. Or...in the same vein rework/rebuild the Broadway,8th ave locals to provide through service.Not only is such a option Obvious,it kills two bottlenecks limiting service. |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 20 10:48:54 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 20 06:34:20 2017. "Both South Ferry and the Fulton Transit Center were outside the World Trade Center damage area. The expenditure of federal funds to cover WTC damage was a stretch."The Fulton Transit Center was justified for federal funds due to the Dey Street connection between the FTC and the WTC. This was the chance to improve transit in the downtown area affecting millions of riders. The South Ferry Terminal construction was justified due to the number of deaths of Staten Islanders, and for improving the transit for Staten Island residents. The destruction of the WTC severed the #1 Cortlandt Street station in half - cutting off the #1 train to the ferry terminal - impacting Staten Islanders and others daily. Plus having powerful politicians ready to argue your case is so much better than having fat-cat politicians ever ready to turn approved transit projects into highway spending (see NJ). The money again could only be spent in the downtown area. The debates on-line were furious with various ideas of this or that proposal. There were folks who wanted to connect a direct line to the airports. Others wanted to rebuild the J-train line for a better transfer at Fulton Street. There were those who did not WANT anything built at the WTC site. Some folks wanted to do some very "interesting things" to the PATH, while others argued about the proposed new South Ferry terminal. There were lots of ideas, debate and discussion. One of the local downtown newspapers did nothing but devote itself to the years long debates and issues. I do not think that this is one of those times to argue that after stuff has been built and is in operation that the stuff should not have been built in the first place. Nor is it healthy to always, always argue about the costs. There are folks at another transit on-line forum that practically do nothing but argue about the costs of public works. Public works are expensive - get over it. There are a variety of issues and goals that go into the formation of transit policy and the building of public facilities - besides "costs." The way some of these folks argue - they would not be satisfied if every one was provided with cheap canoes to float across New York Bay! Mike |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Feb 20 12:06:09 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 20 09:41:49 2017. That wasn't the point.Replacing connections, rebuilding what was lost... Problem is,like most things open to public opinion but actually controled by fat cat law makers and lobbying fools,NOBODY ACTUALLY LISTENED TO ANYBODY with Ideas that made sense or suited the Public in viable ways. Look at the WTC...REALLY look at it. Look at the Fulton Center.... Steel and concrete icons of greed and opulence both high end and low. Not ONE DIME SPENT to extend one inch of rail...purely palaces and monuments dedicated to the Egos of everyone involved. Billions of dollars spent to say to the world...Look what we can do. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 20 12:13:32 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Edwards! on Mon Feb 20 12:06:09 2017. Then what I was saying was the point - they should have built side-by-side terminals for PATH and the #6. Rails do get extended for better connections.PATH's Oculus, FTC, and that Moynihan Station thing are glorified shopping malls. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Feb 20 12:24:55 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 20 12:13:32 2017. Sorry..I was truthfully responding to a Diffent point within this thread, got caught up in something else. We are in agreement concerning your comments, however. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Feb 20 12:25:05 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 20 12:13:32 2017. Sorry..I was truthfully responding to a Diffent point within this thread, got caught up in something else. We are in agreement concerning your comments, however. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 20 12:31:26 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 20 09:56:04 2017. Did the fare hike replace the $64 million ? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Feb 20 12:36:27 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 19 19:06:56 2017. And the Only way that will change, is when the MTA finally admits cutting the 24h QUEENS R service was a mistake,And reinstates it. |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Feb 20 13:48:11 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Feb 20 09:56:04 2017. Where did you find that service level diagram from that long ago? It also appears less cars to a trainset was far common back then until now ehich could also influence the spare factor and current lack of resources.From a scheduling perspective, I say the first step to any of this is to have the ability to determine how many vehicles you have on the road and work from there. Just looking at the statistics from the MTA website, an uneducated guess I would say take the yearly count totals dividie it into days for weekday and weekday, get the percent change from a year ago and 3 years ago to get an estimate of typical ridership and as you mentioned they also orovide 4 hour counts. So do this for all stations, populate it into line segments, compare it to the levels a century and I would say thats a solid starting point. |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 20 14:21:00 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Michael549 on Mon Feb 20 10:48:54 2017. About excess costs. We spend vastly more pre KM or mile than western European countries do. They have similar or stronger unions, real health care, decent safety regs, but apparently not as much corruption. As long as the US can burn money in the five sided pit in VA, and build actually useful infrastructure one might not complain. The problem is that given our tax the workers to give welfare to the already too rich economics, there just isn't enopugh money to pay for all of the infrastructure we need. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 15:44:40 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 19 20:40:53 2017. Queens would not have had the capacity for an additional Manhattan trunk line service. The Qns to 2 Av service was contingent on the construction of the Qns super exp bypass. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 16:15:16 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Edwards! on Mon Feb 20 12:36:27 2017. Back when I was still working 20 years ago, the director of Rapid Transit Service Planning stated that the MTA was committed to restoring full 24/7 R service to Ctl once the work being done in the 60 St tunnel at the time was completed. We’re still waiting! |
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Posted by BusRider on Mon Feb 20 16:24:27 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 16:15:16 2017. What is the problem with Queens Blvd it seems like its always plagued with GO's and why is capacity limited for it to handle another Manhattan trunk? |
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Posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Mon Feb 20 18:33:15 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Feb 19 16:43:10 2017. Get it out of there Bill. Use your power with the MTA if you have any. I can remember when it first when it there in 1990; it didn't get our until Feb. of 2004, and, hell, I had to fly into New York to take that first ride to make sure it wasn't just a canard put out by those dip shits in the MTA. |
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Posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Mon Feb 20 18:35:30 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 19 19:06:56 2017. I got that from the last guy who sent me the sad missive. Now I have to sweat it our that they don't take it off the Manny B and off the express tracks. |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Feb 20 20:12:00 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by BusRider on Mon Feb 20 16:24:27 2017. If you listen very closely, you'll hear Ricky Ricardo, moaning, "Aye-aye-aye," every weekend.:) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Feb 20 20:12:53 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Mon Feb 20 18:35:30 2017. Now that the W is back, and with the Q going up 2nd Ave., it's not likely to happen. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 20 20:40:50 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Mon Feb 20 18:33:15 2017. They've had the Q and re-routed F due to a GO via bridge and N/R via tunnel. They did not want 3 services (congestion possibility) via bridge. |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Feb 20 21:26:10 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 20 20:40:50 2017. They've run the N, Q and R trains over the Bridge before for weekend G.O.'s many times before. |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Feb 20 22:21:50 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by BusRider on Mon Feb 20 16:24:27 2017. The plant need work. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Feb 21 15:52:21 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by BusRider on Mon Feb 20 16:24:27 2017. Good question.If you are looking for a serious answer,address your question directly to the MTA Public Relations dept. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Feb 21 17:08:37 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Feb 20 20:40:50 2017. Pre Chrystie, 3 services ran over that side of the Manny B and that was on rush hour headways not weekend service |
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Posted by BusRider on Tue Feb 21 18:27:41 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Edwards! on Tue Feb 21 15:52:21 2017. Thank you. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 21 18:54:10 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Edwards! on Tue Feb 21 15:52:21 2017. They are installing CBTC.The MTA no longer considers injured or killed track workers as collateral damage. Therefore, they shift the burden to the public. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Feb 21 19:00:11 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Feb 21 18:54:10 2017. They also made the express tunnel between 65th and 36th boring: they walled off the cross connects between the two directions, so you cannot see glimpses of what might be going the other way. As they painstakingly alternated which side of the wall the metal sheets were bolted onto, I am guessing this was an attempt to provide workers with a clear-up area that didn't involve potentially encroaching an active ROW for the other direction.That said, they should just do both express tracks simultaneously and make everything local. It would increase safety, speed, efficiency, and simplicity of communication to riders. Once the express is done, do one local track at a time while both express tracks are live. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 21 19:10:17 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by randyo on Tue Feb 21 17:08:37 2017. I know. And 2 in the tube, reaching 3 at the Nassau cut.Their thinking was for this GO was 2 via bridge, 2 via tunnel, all straight rail except at Gold St.where the Q and F would seperate. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Feb 21 19:56:07 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Tue Feb 21 19:10:17 2017. Also, people wanting to continue on the F were being directed to take the N/R to Jay St to grab the D. Having two services was helpful there. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 22 03:15:59 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 16:15:16 2017. And I bet you are going to still be waiting years from now.The TA doesn't like to give anything back after it has been removed. The W was the exception because Astoria complained the loudest. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Feb 22 08:20:31 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Feb 21 19:56:07 2017. Huh.I was on a southbound F train from 57th to 14th on Sunday evening and there was limited information being disseminated to passengers. The display said listen for announcements, and the announcements were only the names of the stations. The posters said a bit more, but I don't recall them saying that to get to the actual F line in Brooklyn, take an R or N to Jay Street. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 22 16:51:31 2017, in response to Re: SAS Use This Week, posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 22 03:15:59 2017. In a sense , the MTA di restore apart of a line that had been removed many years ago. I;m referring to the original myrtle/Chambers service which until 1959 ran 6 days a week, Mon - Sat. Over the years Myrtle service in the form of the M was maintained as a 5 day through service with weekend service operating as a shuttle. Recently Sat and Su M service was extended to Essex St which while not a complete restoration of the long abandoned Sat Myrtle/Chambers service is not only a restoration of a substantial portion of the route but also the addition of a service which did not run at all. Also the extension of the midnight R service to Whitehall St is a partial restoration of the pre Chrystie Midnight 4 Av Lcl service that ran to 57 St. Since 57/7 can no longer be used as a terminal, the service to Whitehall is a partial restoration. There a few other instances of service that have been removed being restored. |
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