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| MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars (1403129) | |
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| (1403129) | |
MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by gold_12th on Sun Jul 24 14:17:33 2016  SOLICITATION TITLE: R34211 Purchase of 1025 Subway CarsOPENING/DUE DATE: 10/18/2016 DESCRIPTION:. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority, acting by the New York City Transit Authority (NYCT), is issuing a Request For Proposals (RFP) for Solicitation Number R34211 for the purchase of 1025 Subway cars as follows: 1). A base order of 285 cars comprised of 10 open gangway cars (R211T) for the NYCT “B” Division, 75 cars for the Staten Island Railway (R211S) and 200 cars for the NYCT “B” Division (R211A). The Contractor will provide all design, engineering, testing, manufacturing, delivery, warranty, training, spare parts, tools, diagnostics test equipment and other services necessary. Proposals from responsible proposers will be evaluated with respect to the evaluation criteria set forth in the RFP, which are summarized below. Please consult the RFP for a complete description of the evaluation criteria. This Contract will contain Federal Funds Evaluation Criteria: 1). Technical Proposal and Overall Technical Qualifications: Technical features of the Proposal; experience of the Proposer/Suppliers/Subcontractors; demonstrated capability to make or improve on delivery of cars based on Contract delivery schedule; evaluation of major subsystems; systems integration experience; management approach; system support; quality assurance; and a U.S. Employment Plan. All inquiries should be addressed as follows: Marian Murray, Assistant Chief Procurement Officer Goals: TVM Funding: Federal PRE-PROPOSAL CONFERENCE LOCATION: TBD ; DATE: 9/8/2016; TIME: 10:00AM Source: http://web.mta.info/nyct/procure/contracts/R34211sol.pdf Other details on the R211 cars (info from last week)... Reimagined and Enhanced Subway Cars Later this week, the MTA will issue an RFP for the construction of 1,025 new subway cars, which will highlight that the timeline of design and production, as well as cost-effectiveness, will be central factors in awarding the contract. The RFP will also emphasize the need to align with MTA design guidelines, which were established after a review of best practices in a number of major metropolitan areas from around the world, and identified several key elements for use in the New York system, including:
As of right now, no car manufacturers are interested bidding the R211 cars. :) |
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Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by Allan on Sun Jul 24 15:08:39 2016, in response to MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by gold_12th on Sun Jul 24 14:17:33 2016. On a 10 car gangway consist - where is the C/R position???Are we going to have "open" door controls similar to the PATH PA1-4 series? |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by mike nash on Sun Jul 24 15:20:38 2016, in response to MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by gold_12th on Sun Jul 24 14:17:33 2016. can you remind me how many r179's are on order? |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by Mysterious2train on Sun Jul 24 15:27:07 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by mike nash on Sun Jul 24 15:20:38 2016. 300 R179 cars, made up of 260 cars arranged in 4-car sets and 40 cars arranged in 5-car sets. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by Caine515 on Sun Jul 24 15:49:37 2016, in response to MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by gold_12th on Sun Jul 24 14:17:33 2016. I guess this means r32,r42,r46 and the r44 from SIR are history once this order shapes up. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sun Jul 24 16:05:38 2016, in response to Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by Allan on Sun Jul 24 15:08:39 2016. The wording seems ambiguous to me - it could be one 10-car set, or a 10-car train made of multiple smaller sets (5/5, or 3/4/3). I'm not sure any news articles on this have clarified what that will look like.IMO multiple smaller sets is the more likely option considering (1) that's how the TA has been arranging cars for the past few decades and (2) the 300-ft limit for OPTO. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Sun Jul 24 17:06:54 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by K. Trout on Sun Jul 24 16:05:38 2016. If its 3 or 4 car sets they might as well just articulate them. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 24 17:09:18 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by Jersey Mike on Sun Jul 24 17:06:54 2016. As I mentioned in my other post, with either moving the truck centers closer to the ends of the cars or outright articulation, the consequent increase in center excess of the cars on curves has to be considered. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 24 17:11:05 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by Caine515 on Sun Jul 24 15:49:37 2016. I would not be too surprised to see the R-68 and 68As go before the R-46s since the R-46s after GOH have more modern amenities than the 68s. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by mike nash on Sun Jul 24 17:22:16 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by Mysterious2train on Sun Jul 24 15:27:07 2016. thank you |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by The Silence on Sun Jul 24 19:01:50 2016, in response to Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by Allan on Sun Jul 24 15:08:39 2016. IIRC, it won't be a 10 car gangway, it will be two 5 car gangways |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Jul 24 21:43:25 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by randyo on Sun Jul 24 17:09:18 2016. As long as they can negotiate the Crescent St/Elderts Lane S curve on the J & Z lines, they'd be good to go. I'm sure that someone in MTA/TA engineering & procurement is taking this into consideration in a final design. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jul 24 21:45:52 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Jul 24 21:43:25 2016. The curve out of Alabama Ave. also merits consideration, as does the connection between the Broadway and Myrtle els. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Jul 24 22:55:50 2016, in response to MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by gold_12th on Sun Jul 24 14:17:33 2016. I wonder about fleet numbering. I'm guessing that the R-179s will be 3001-3300. If the 179s replace the remaining R-32s, then 3301-5000 is open, more than enough for 1,470 cars (I'm subtracting out the SIRT cars, as they will probably be numbered behind the R-44SI). But MTA has said not all the 32s will necessarily be replaced by the 1792, hmmm... |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars (R211S question) |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Jul 25 07:59:49 2016, in response to MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by gold_12th on Sun Jul 24 14:17:33 2016. RFP says 75 cars for the SI Railway to replace the 64 R44SI cars. The current R44SI fleet provides for 16 4-car sets. Any info on whether the R211S will run in 4 car (18.75 sets) or 5 car (15 sets)? |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Jul 25 08:57:06 2016, in response to MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by gold_12th on Sun Jul 24 14:17:33 2016. The only way anybody is going to get their questions asked is for someone to lay their hands on a set of the Request For Proposal documents.Unfortunately New York MTA requires a formal request for said documents. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars (R211S question) |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Jul 25 09:19:29 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars (R211S question), posted by Dan on Mon Jul 25 07:59:49 2016. Considering that the alternative leaves a remainder, I'd have to assume 5 car sets. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Jul 25 10:53:33 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by randyo on Sun Jul 24 17:11:05 2016. That's because the R-46s as designed were totally gutted for GOH. We all know to blame Rockwell for the faulty truck design. Yes, now that they're SMEE in almost every way possible, they're considerably more reliable. But, regardless, they ARE 40 years old. They're still nearest to retirement age.The R-68s enduring legacy has been because it's a very simple design, just as the R-62s as well. And that they've lasted almost 30 years with just scheduled maintenance and not a full GOH, proves that the design works well. (at least mechanically) |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jul 25 12:26:22 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Jul 25 10:53:33 2016. The older cars got the GOH because they were neglected for years. When the newer cars came in NYCT made a commitment that these would always stay in a state of good repair, making a GOH unnecessary. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Jul 25 12:29:54 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jul 25 12:26:22 2016. And therefore making an "early" retirement for the R-68 unnecessary.I mean, who cares if the insides are ugly because of scratchiti filled mirror panels...they get you from point A to B, don't they?? |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 25 13:35:51 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jul 24 21:45:52 2016. Not to mention that when the next generation of IRT cars is due, IRT clearances will have to be considered since if trains with passageways are in service on the BMT and IND, IRT passengers would demand the same consideration. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 25 13:42:19 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Jul 25 12:29:54 2016. However, unlike the R-68s, the R-46s have Ohio Brass drawheads instead of H2Cs and electric side signs which are less labor intensive. It would be more logical for the MTA to want to have cars with more compatible couplers and more flexible sign changing capability. As for the Rockwell truck problem, I recall a newspaper article from around the time of the truck problem that mentioned that the Rockwell design per se was not the problem but it was the MTA engineers who failed to specify that the trucks be strong enough to withstand the stresses put on them by the NYCTS infrastructure. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Jul 25 14:07:40 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by randyo on Mon Jul 25 13:42:19 2016. Is that the same problem that's being encountered by SEPTA now with their Silverliner Vs?? |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jul 25 14:33:01 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Jul 25 14:07:40 2016. Not sure but it is a possibility. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by mike nash on Mon Jul 25 19:48:53 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Jul 24 22:55:50 2016. where do the r62's start could they start the 211's at 100 |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 25 20:21:25 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by randyo on Mon Jul 25 13:35:51 2016. "IRT clearances will have to be considered since if trains with passageways are in service on the BMT and IND"So why can't IRT cars of the next generation have passageways like B division cars? What do IRT clearences have to do with passageway safety?? Car width should not be an issue. Neither should car length. B division cars with their longer length & overhang had to be far more dangerous than IRT cars. Folks have walked between IRT cars for generations without any more protection than connector chains & lived (99% Ill guess) to tell about it. So with a passageway, it should be safer, no? Where am I wrong?? |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by K. Trout on Tue Jul 26 01:30:26 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 25 20:21:25 2016. If I'm reading Randy's posts correctly, there's nothing to worry about if the trucks are spaced as they are now. There would be an issue if true articulation (instead of open gangways) is considered. Right? |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Jul 26 11:38:32 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by mike nash on Mon Jul 25 19:48:53 2016. R-62s start at 1301. I thought that MTA didn't want any more 3-digit car numbers, but I could be wrong. But that still would not be enough numbers if they take all the options. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Jul 26 11:46:03 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Jul 24 22:55:50 2016. They could start the R211s at 4000, then after they reach 4999, start filling in the 3000s. By the time they reach the 1000th R211, I'd imagine the R32s would be safely retired. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by jrf2 on Tue Jul 26 12:16:23 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Jul 24 21:43:25 2016. The curves between City Hall and Cortland must also be considered. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by caine515 on Tue Jul 26 12:26:35 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by jrf2 on Tue Jul 26 12:16:23 2016. there is one thing nobody mentioned about the new cars. If a homeless person,or someone gets sick in the cars that are articulated design...the smell will permulate the whole train. And believe me, ive seen where homeless people(deleted) and the whole car smells. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 26 16:17:14 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by K. Trout on Tue Jul 26 01:30:26 2016. Even if there were no articulation, in order to make intercar passageways workable, the truck centers would have to be moved closer to the ends of the car bodies, consequently increasing the center excess of the cars on convex curves. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Jul 26 16:44:20 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by jrf2 on Tue Jul 26 12:16:23 2016. They would be no problem since 75 ft cars operate there now. Although I mentioned that the increased center excess needs to be considered, it probably won’t be any greater than the center excess of the 75n footers. The problem would arise if and when open gangway cars are considered for the IRT which has much tighter clearances even with the smaller car bodies. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by K. Trout on Wed Jul 27 01:28:02 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by randyo on Tue Jul 26 16:17:14 2016. OK, upon some thought I can see why: sharp curves would pitch the connector gangway significantly. If not engineered correctly, it seems the gangway would actually limit the possible angle the cars are allowed to turn. Moving the truck centers to reduce the angle between cars makes sense in that scenario. City Hall to Cortlandt is probably the most extreme example of where this could be a problem. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Jul 27 10:25:06 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by R30A on Tue Jul 26 11:46:03 2016. True, I hadn't thought of that. Similar to the R-142s, which started at 6301 and went to (I think) 7180, then there was the final order (the so-called 142S at 1101-1250). |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Jul 27 15:47:36 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by K. Trout on Wed Jul 27 01:28:02 2016. True, but as I mentioned in my post, It probably wouldn’t be a problem since those curves can negotiate 75 ft cars. Even the curves at Marcy, Bway/Myrt, Alabama and Crescent St/ Cypress Hills shouldn’t present any problem as long as the center excess doesn’t exceed that of the BMT steels. The problem may arise if open gangway cars are tried on the IRT since that is the division with the tightest clearances and also has station platforms which may impact on an increased center excess as well. |
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Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars) |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jul 27 23:55:52 2016, in response to Re: Question - (Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars), posted by caine515 on Tue Jul 26 12:26:35 2016. With that much space, people could more easily move away. For example on 75' cars, a stinky homeless guy may make half the car uninhabitable, but the other half is usually good enough.Another option is to just not run them on the E. 75 trains isn't enough for one yard. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jul 27 23:57:49 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Jul 26 11:38:32 2016. They might be comfortable giving the SI ones 3 digit numbers... takes a small amount of pressure off. |
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Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jul 28 10:22:44 2016, in response to Re: MTA's R211 subway car order procurement info (RFP) now online, up to 1545 cars, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Jul 27 23:57:49 2016. I'm pretty sure the R-211SIs will get 3-digit numbers (Starting at 500 or 501?). I was referring to the mainline fleet. |
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