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WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 09:55:46 2016  1013 spotted at United Iron & Metal, Inc. Baltimore Maryland 02 09 2016 11:06 AM EST From MJofLakeland1 flicker photo stream. For those that are interested, extruded aluminum is going for just under $2,000 a ton. Somebody is going to make a hell of a lot of soft drink and or beer cans out of that car. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Feb 12 10:22:29 2016, in response to WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 09:55:46 2016. Nice pic,very sad sight.You honestly dont expect to see cars you like go to the Blowtorch. Oh well...the future is here. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 10:38:54 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Edwards! on Fri Feb 12 10:22:29 2016. Nice pic,very sad sight.You honestly dont expect to see cars you like go to the Blowtorch. Oh well...the future is here. Base on the comments that regularly appear at reddit.com/r/washingtondc/ you would be led to believe they are worse then Ford Pintos or Chevrolet Corvairs. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by North Brooklyn on Fri Feb 12 10:50:43 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 10:38:54 2016. Hasn't the scrapping of the 1000s been going on for a while now?Anymore 7000s arrived? |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Jace on Fri Feb 12 12:11:57 2016, in response to WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 09:55:46 2016. Silk Road giveth. Silk Road taketh away. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 14:05:53 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by North Brooklyn on Fri Feb 12 10:50:43 2016. Hasn't the scrapping of the 1000s been going on for a while now?.Yes and no. Most of the scrapping that has thus far taken place has been of cars that are damaged in some way or another. My understanding is the car in the picture was damaged in a collision at Brentwood Yard. You will notice rear corner of the car looks a little jagged Anymore 7000s arrived? 64 in service as of 01 13 2016 with 84 total on property. Don't know but I would hazard a guess there is somewhere around 100 on the property now with with rough 80 in service. 128 are needed for the both phases of the Silver line. Me thinks WMATA will hold off on scrapping in mass until they have put those into services and an equal number to replace the cars that have already been scrapped do to damage or removed from service for use by others. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Feb 12 14:09:30 2016, in response to WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 09:55:46 2016. The end is near for Rohr-built cars, besides the WMATA 1000s, the BART "A" and "B" cars will be leaving in a few years as well. I don't recall if any other property had Rohr cars. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Feb 12 14:15:08 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Edwards! on Fri Feb 12 10:22:29 2016. Yeah. The cars looks so modern. I realize they're nearly 40 years old, but I find it hard to believe 1976 was 40 years ago. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Feb 12 17:17:58 2016, in response to WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 09:55:46 2016. is there a transit museum that will preserve some of these cars? |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 12 17:53:27 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Feb 12 14:15:08 2016. I rode them when then were new from New Carrolton, around 1976 or 1977. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Feb 12 18:26:39 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Feb 12 14:09:30 2016. certainly hope not, although as an historical artifact one of each (Bart A, WMATA 1k) should be preserved restored to as delivered complete w/ the insane carpeting,Captions at the museums should make the point that these junkers were built by typical DOD vendors encouraged to use another Federal trough to market overpriced inferior products. Anyone for a $72 allen wrench? |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 12 19:13:33 2016, in response to WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 09:55:46 2016. They can't get rid of that telescopic, aero-aluminum junk fast enough. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Feb 12 19:29:55 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 12 19:13:33 2016. but getting into the mass transit supply business was supposed to be a great new revenue generator for aero-space vendors during a lull in NASA spending...waah. And then of course they were also guilty of the unspeakable turbo junk--would you like incompletely burnt fuel aroma at your seat? |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 12 19:47:51 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Feb 12 19:29:55 2016. Don't forget the Boeing-Vertol LRV cars, though MUNI seemed to have better luck with them than MBTA. But I believe they built the CTA 2400's, which turned out OK. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Feb 12 20:13:44 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 12 19:47:51 2016. yes, CTA wrote real specs, the SLRVs were a vendor design...draw your own conclusions. As their service at Muni, less said the better. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Express Rider on Fri Feb 12 21:33:26 2016, in response to WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 09:55:46 2016. how old were these cars?wiil any, a married pair or two, be saved for a museum? I hope so. If not are there any people in the railfan community down there who could advocate for this? |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 21:43:57 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 12 17:53:27 2016. I rode them when then were new from New Carrolton, around 1976 or 1977.I road them almost 2 years before paying public. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 22:05:50 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Jace on Fri Feb 12 12:11:57 2016. Silk Road giveth. Silk Road taketh away.Actually it was Atlantic Cost Line, Richmond Fredrick & Potomac and Baltimore & Ohio that gaveth. The cars were shipped from Winder Georgia aboard TTX flatcars. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 22:07:37 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Feb 12 17:17:58 2016. is there a transit museum that will preserve some of these cars?To my knowledge no. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 22:17:50 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 12 19:13:33 2016. They can't get rid of that telescopic, aero-aluminum junk fast enough.Believe or not, of all of the cars WMATA has had, the 1k cars have been the most constantly reliable. Their crash worthiness would not be an issue had the folks that run railroad they are operated on properly maintained it. The product made by the same manufacture operated by BART are not vilified like the product made for WMATA. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 22:33:36 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Express Rider on Fri Feb 12 21:33:26 2016. how old were these cars?The car pictured was delivered in 1974, production was from 1973 > 1976. wiil any, a married pair or two, be saved for a museum? I hope so. To my knowledge no. If not are there any people in the railfan community down there who could advocate for this? I would likely guess yes. I don't have a clue what WMATA is asking for them. Trucking one of them to a location within 50 miles of Washington would likely cost around $10,000. There are presently about a dozen that are at various security and rescue training facilities. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Jace on Fri Feb 12 22:35:08 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 22:05:50 2016. True but Silk Road giveth the 7ks in exchange for the belly cars. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 22:38:18 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Feb 12 14:09:30 2016. The end is near for Rohr-built cars, besides the WMATA 1000s, the BART "A" and "B" cars will be leaving in a few years as well. I don't recall if any other property had Rohr cars.BART and WMATA were the only properties that had cars manufactured by Rohr. The BART cars were made in San Diego California, the WMATA cars were made in Winder Georgia. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Feb 12 23:25:24 2016, in response to WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 09:55:46 2016. Actually commodities prices are in the toilet. Metro would be wise to store them for a few years. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 23:36:58 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Feb 12 23:25:24 2016. Actually commodities prices are in the toilet. Metro would be wise to store them for a few years.Extruded aluminum is going for just under $2,000 ton. Like I said further up the thread, "128 are needed for the both phases of the Silver line. Me thinks WMATA will hold off on scrapping in mass until they have put those into services and an equal number to replace the cars that have already been scrapped do to damage or removed from service for use by others." John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by North Brooklyn on Fri Feb 12 23:46:13 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 22:33:36 2016. I'm still waiting for WMATA to save an Orion V... |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by North Brooklyn on Fri Feb 12 23:47:02 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Feb 12 23:25:24 2016. They should store the 4000s and 5000s instead. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 13 01:42:06 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 22:17:50 2016. thou sayest. Some of us who live in the Bay Area despise BART's rolling stock. Not to mention the evening when I experienced a "pull apart" as the train left 12th for 19th. The train separated leaving the car I was in and others behind. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 13 06:39:54 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Express Rider on Fri Feb 12 21:33:26 2016. If not are there any people in the railfan community down therewho could advocate for this? As I've jokingly noted, the private museums tend to cater to Boomers, so there's little interest, desire, and funding (in both cash and volunteer hours) for WMATA 1ks. I suspect first gen BART cars are going to end up in a similar situation as well. If NYCTA didn't have the Transit Museum, I suspect the R44/46s would end up being scrapped without much care. Nobody sees any historical value in this stuff even though for a generation of railfans born in the 1970s and 1980s, this stuff was revolutionary top notch mass transit, and it's how some of us grew into being railfans. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 13 07:36:11 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Feb 12 23:36:58 2016. I thought they were going to mostly 8 car trains before commencing scrapping?But so much for that as I heard at least one 7000 is in ABABBA configuration. Any plans for 8 car trains or they'll all stay at 6? |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 13 07:39:02 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by North Brooklyn on Fri Feb 12 23:47:02 2016. You get rid of the oldest cars first unless there is a fleet defect. Plus with the 1000's not allowed to be in the operating position, getting rid of these make life easier for the yard masters. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 08:14:44 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 13 01:42:06 2016. thou sayest. Some of us who live in the Bay Area despise BART's rolling stock. Not to mention the evening when I experienced a "pull apart" as the train left 12th for 19th. The train separated leaving the car I was in and others behind.WMATA had one of those happen for the first time last month. Cars that uncoupled were 3k cars. Metro Green Line train separates on approach to Navy Yard Faiz Siddiqui and Lori Aratani 01 06 2016 The Washington Post John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 08:26:59 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 13 07:39:02 2016. You get rid of the oldest cars first unless there is a fleet defect. Plus with the 1000's not allowed to be in the operating position, getting rid of these make life easier for the yard masters.The so called "bellying" of the 1k cars to protect them from collision is nothing more then "safety theater". The real solution that is almost done is to replace the hardware that created the condition that caused the collision. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 13 09:07:19 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 08:26:59 2016. Damned near had another collision last week.That problem will not go away anytime soon. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 09:20:16 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by North Brooklyn on Fri Feb 12 23:47:02 2016. They should store the 4000s and 5000s instead.They should do the mid life rehabilitation of those cars to increase the size of the fleet. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 09:22:07 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Feb 13 07:36:11 2016. I thought they were going to mostly 8 car trains before commencing scrapping?All 8 car trains during peak was abandoned when certain members of the board argued for the scrapping of the 5k car instead doing a mid life rehabilitation in the name of cutting costs and increasing reliability. The original schema in the 7k procurement was: • Base contract: 64 cars – Dulles Phase I • Option 1: 64 cars – Dulles Phase II • Option 2: 130 cars – Growth 75% 8 Car Trains • Option 3: 100 cars – Mid-Life Rehabilitation (4k) • Option 4: 300 cars – Fleet Renewal (1k Series) • Option 5: 90 cars – Growth 100% 8 Car Trains Then it was decided to scrap the 4k cars and replace with new. • Base contract: 64 cars – Dulles Phase I • Option 4: 300 cars – Fleet Renewal (1k) • Option 3: 100 cars – Fleet Renewal (4k) • Option 1: 64 cars – Dulles Phase II • Option 2: 130 cars – Growth 75% 8 Car Trains • Option 5: 90 cars – Growth 100% 8 Car Trains Then it was decided to scrap the 5k cars and replace with new. All of option 2 and some of option 5 would be used to replace the 192 5k cars reducing fleet growth to 28 cars. Mind you WMATA could change their mind in the future an do the mid life rehabilitation of both the 4 and 5k car allowing a 320 car increase in the fleet size resulting 100 more cars then what was planned for in the original procurement schema. But so much for that as I heard at least one 7000 is in ABABBA configuration. Not sure what you saying. That being said, my understanding is there is nothing technically preventing WMATA from operating 7k cars in 6 car trains. The excuse for not doing so is the fear of having to dead head 7k cars to a yard from the hosteler cab at no more the 15 MPH on the main line. To my knowledge WMATA has never broken up trains out on the main line as the result of equipment malfunction. Any plans for 8 car trains or they'll all stay at 6? Mix of both 6 and 8 for the foreseeable future. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by North Brooklyn on Sat Feb 13 10:43:55 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 13 09:07:19 2016. lol. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by North Brooklyn on Sat Feb 13 10:45:10 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 09:20:16 2016. I know, WMATA is not smart. Just like they should of kept some 1995 Flexible Metro Es before the whole Orion VI mess back in 2012. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by North Brooklyn on Sat Feb 13 10:47:35 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 09:22:07 2016. What ever happened to 4 car trains? |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 13 10:52:41 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by North Brooklyn on Sat Feb 13 10:47:35 2016. Gone for some years now.No matter. Any train under manual control heads to the 8 car marker. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Feb 13 12:14:44 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 13 01:42:06 2016. Not "pull apart;" the correct phrase is "jettison." The manufacturer probably considered that a feature. "Conductor, we're losing power; we need to jettison the last four cars to maintain speed!" |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 14:07:46 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 13 09:07:19 2016. Damned near had another collision last week.That problem will not go away anytime soon. Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades. Even with the screw ups by both the operator and the ROCC controller the possibility of collision was zero. The operator saw the opposing train and stopped well in advance of collision. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 13 14:10:45 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Feb 13 12:14:44 2016. nice. well it does make walking between cars a bit more questionable. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 14:21:51 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 13 10:52:41 2016. No matter. Any train under manual control heads to the 8 car marker.Which I think is a stupid rule. Every operators console has an LED display that shows the number of cars in the train. You get caught operating an 8 car train as if were a 6 car train you become a passenger for a couple of weeks without pay. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 14:25:10 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by North Brooklyn on Sat Feb 13 10:45:10 2016. I know, WMATA is not smart. Just like they should of kept some 1995 Flexible Metro Es before the whole Orion VI mess back in 2012.I'm not much of a bus guy, but I happen to believe the Flexible Metro was the best looking buses made. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 13 14:46:10 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 14:21:51 2016. They opened the doors one time with an 8th car back in the tunnel, hence the new rule. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 13 14:47:25 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 14:07:46 2016. Outside with a slip/slide condition on wet rails, and the chances of collision were much greater. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 13 16:28:05 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Feb 13 12:14:44 2016. In rapid transit terminology, it is either a pull apart or an undesired uncoupling. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 13 16:29:53 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 13 14:46:10 2016. They opened the doors one time with an 8th car back in the tunnel, hence the new rule.That happen because the operator forgot that he was at the controls of an 8 car train. In my opinion there is no excuse for that kind of stupidly. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Feb 13 16:32:55 2016, in response to Re: WMATA: Scrapping has begun, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 13 14:10:45 2016. It isn't supposed to happen, but if it does just while one is walking between cars... some people would have that sort of luck. |
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