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| (1132164) | |
Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 02:09:13 2012 Before the Snediker Avenue El was torn down, Atlantic Avenue had 6 tracks. IIRC Fulton had three tracks and Canarsie two, so how was the extra track used? |
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| (1132192) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 14 07:56:50 2012, in response to Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 02:09:13 2012. Different ways at different times. Effectively four tracks were for Fulton. I just missed riding Fulton first hand, but after the 1956 closure, short-lined trains from Canarsie or Broadway often terminated at the center of the three platforms. |
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| (1132203) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Jan 14 10:31:05 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 14 07:56:50 2012. The outside (most easterly track) only connected to the J line north of Atlantic Ave. It would have allowed an inbound Fulton St. train to travel down Bway on the J line, the same connection that is used for the K train. Since the Fulton line was only three tracks, I am told there was a switch to add the fourth track as the train curved into Snediker Ave. When I moved into Canarsie in 57, it was all gone (except for the remains around Atlantic.) Switching and all those trains arriving from both directions (not counting the Bway line) must have been a railfans dream location. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1132207) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 10:56:11 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by jabrams on Sat Jan 14 10:31:05 2012. So the center platform was the express and westbound local? Was there a third track east of Atlantic? |
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| (1132211) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 14 11:07:07 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by jabrams on Sat Jan 14 10:31:05 2012. As a Kid, in the early 1950's, my dad had a small, limited hobby of HO trains.The only local store we knew of , was in downtown Brooklyn on Atlantic Ave, towards the area near the "new" Raymond St. Jail. My family would pile into my dads 1949, 4 door, straight six, Chevy DeLuxe, and head west on Atlantic Ave. from South Ozone Park. The highlight of the trip for me, was when we passed Pennsylvania Ave. I would strain to see the activity on the el structure, as we rose up with the roadway, as the LIRR tracks rose to go over the cut. I can not recall ever passing that way, and not seeing a train going in some direction. At the time, I did not know all of the lines, or car types, but I recall Multis, and articulates of some type. It was usually in the evening, so seeing the interior lights blink as trains went over switches, and arching of third rail shoes was always added treats. Now, I guess all of the activity was trains going to the ENY yards. Next, we would follow Atlantic Ave. with the LIRR above us. With luck, a train would roar overhead. If I was lucky the LIRR train would be at the portals, as we passed by. Just waiting for that Time Machine, to travel back, with a Digital Camera. |
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| (1132213) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 14 11:11:02 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 10:56:11 2012. Sadly, I never had the opportunity to railfan there in that time epoch. |
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| (1132217) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 14 12:13:24 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 10:56:11 2012. OK, here's the story, pretty much, Based on the 1941 track arrangement.To answer your last question first, the third track on Fulton extended through and past Hinsdale Street, BUT no access to either local track from points east of Atlantic Avenue over Van Sinderen. This eastern part of this track apparently was used mainly for off-hour storage of Canarsie trains. There are pictures of Standards on this track, and they couldn't operate through on Pitkin. So dealing JUST with Fulton Street services in and going west of Atlantic Avenue Station: The tracks in Atlantic, going compass east to west were: K2-P2, K4-K3, K1-P1. Ignore the P tracks, they were for Canarsie. K2 only connected for revenue service with J2 and K2, so this track was only for Fulton Locals and Eastern Parkway. K4 westbound had access to ALL revenue tracks, so could be used for Fulton Locals or Expresses, but was the only track for 14th Street Fulton Street westbound K3 eastbound was for eastbound Fulton Expresses, could also receive 14th St.-Fulton Street trains. K1 eastbound was for eastbound Fulton Locals and 14th-Fulton Locals. |
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| (1132229) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 16:19:55 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 14 12:13:24 2012. Thank you. |
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| (1132230) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by jabrams on Sat Jan 14 16:25:52 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 10:56:11 2012. I don't know, as it was gone before I moved to Canarsie, but it sounds logical. |
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| (1132233) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jan 14 17:04:39 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by jabrams on Sat Jan 14 10:31:05 2012. As I think back, the trip also had the benefit of crossing Flatbush Ave, with it's Trolleys, and Trolley Buses. I was fascinated how the buses would go to the curb , and the trolleys remained connect as they turned and seemed to stretch and remain connected to the wires above.That downtown area was a cauldron of activity. avid |
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| (1132259) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Jan 14 20:16:15 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 16:19:55 2012. You're welcome. I also want to clarify something I said. I didn't mean that there were NO switches from the Fulton express track east of Atlantic Avenue. I meant that the switches there were over Van Sinderen and that the express track east of the last switch to the end of track north of Hinsdale Street was isolated. |
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| (1132316) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jan 15 13:14:19 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by jabrams on Sat Jan 14 10:31:05 2012. Are there any videos/photos showing the track structures between Rockaway Ave and Hinsdale Street? |
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| (1132327) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 15 14:35:43 2012, in response to Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 02:09:13 2012. The Fulton el divided into 4 tracks west of Hinsdale. One track met the westbound Canarsie line track over Sneideker (that was that long abandoned trackway) and the other three met the Canarsie bound track and ran over Van Sinderen.Here's the 3 tracks turning into 4 west of Hinsdale:  |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Sun Jan 15 14:46:01 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 15 14:35:43 2012. It is obvious by this picture that this portion of the el was built to dual contracts spec. I have seen pictures of Standards and R10's being stored or turned on the curve. How far east on Pitkin were steel cars allow to go ? |
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| (1132335) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 15 14:58:26 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by seabeachexpress on Sun Jan 15 14:46:01 2012. I'm not completely sure, but I believe the dual contract construction stopped at the west end of Pennsylvania Av station. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 15 15:06:39 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 15 14:35:43 2012. The photo of the old Fulton structure looking south towards the Canarsie Line shows an R-16 in service on the 14 St Line. The only time I rode the Fulton el in early 1956, it was a Sunday and there seemed to be a number of R-16s on the 14 St Line that day which would seem to be unusual for that period since when the Fulton St el was up the principal rolling stock used on the 14 St Line were Multis even to Canarsie. I do know that after the Multis were transferred to Myrtle/Chambers and the 14 St Line was 100% steels, it was SOP in extremely cold and snowy weather to transfer steels to the Jamaica Line and R-16s to the 14 St line where there was more subway than elevated operation. However, the day I rode Fulton which was probably late February or early March of 1956, There were R-16s running on both Jamaica and 14 St and I don't recall seeing any Multis that day at all. |
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| (1132350) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 15 15:36:10 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by randyo on Sun Jan 15 14:58:26 2012. Yes. Hinsdale was rebuilt and looked just like any of the other rebuilt Fulton el stations, complete with middle track. The middle track dead ended about halfway between Hinsdale and Pennsylvania Ave, where the line then retained it's older 19th century structure, all the way to the City Line. |
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| (1132353) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 15 15:38:59 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by randyo on Sun Jan 15 15:06:39 2012. Even on a normal day, did the Jamaica line (15) really need all 200 R16's to meet service needs? |
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| (1132365) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 15 15:59:13 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 15 15:38:59 2012. Usually, some R-16s ended up on the #14 Bway Bkln Lcl. |
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| (1132413) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by jabrams on Sun Jan 15 19:04:47 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by randyo on Sun Jan 15 15:06:39 2012. Did they pull off the R10's when the Fulton line was closed, as I only saw/rode BMT standards on the 14th St. line from 1958 through the late 60's and that picture had to be taken before the 1956 demolition, although there is a six car marker on the eastern track, but it appears that the standards go beyond the terminated section (from 1957 through the late 90's) |
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| (1132448) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Sun Jan 15 21:36:04 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by randyo on Sun Jan 15 14:58:26 2012. Thank you sir |
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| (1132449) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Sun Jan 15 21:37:14 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 15 15:36:10 2012. and thank you too.. always wondered about that section of the Pitkin el. |
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| (1132468) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 15 22:29:23 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by jabrams on Sun Jan 15 19:04:47 2012. FWIW, I started riding the system methodically the last months of 1956, or about six months after the Fulton closed for good. In those days I never saw on R10 on any service except the A. I saw Standards and R16s on the Canarsie.I saw the Pitkin el intact for some time after I started riding, from the vantage points of the A train at the north end and the Canarsie Line at the south end. I don't know exactly when it was demolished, but it wasn't in 1956. |
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| (1132482) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jan 16 00:16:34 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 15 14:35:43 2012. So the point at which the remaining Fulton el was retained was only just west of Hinsdale. Very interesting... |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 16 01:22:14 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 15 22:29:23 2012. I recall seeing but not riding R-10s on the 14 St Line in 1956 after Fulton shut sown but I don't recall how much after that it was. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jan 17 12:45:23 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by 3-9 on Mon Jan 16 00:16:34 2012. What should have been rebuilt was never done! |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Jan 17 12:57:26 2012, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 15 22:29:23 2012. Demolition started near 75th Street, Queens on Jan 8th, 1958. It gradually headed west towards Atlantic Ave. Pennsylvania/Pitkin was still up in 1960, when my great-uncle drove me down penn Ave in his new 1960 Chevy Impala. No one seems to know when the final girder was removed, or where! |
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| (1368661) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 2 17:54:59 2015, in response to Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 02:09:13 2012. NOTE: NECROPOST!When were the various parts of the station built? |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by b1bus on Fri Oct 2 21:00:43 2015, in response to Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 14 02:09:13 2012. Atlantic ave on the L will be closed entirely sometime this month for reconstruction. |
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| (1368681) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Oct 2 21:28:01 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 2 17:54:59 2015. It's hard to date in an ordinary way because the station was built from existing structures under traffic, but use of the station as we knew it until the recent dismantlings began in October 1918.The portion over Snediker Avenue was the oldest original structure and opened in 1889. Is that what you were looking for. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 3 00:38:23 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Fri Oct 2 21:28:01 2015. What about when Canarsie was first elevated? |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by The Silence on Sat Oct 3 10:18:06 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by b1bus on Fri Oct 2 21:00:43 2015. The 12th (a week from Monday).also (at least for the month of October), the L will run with every other Canarsie bound train terminating at Myrtle-Wyckoff during the week mid-day hours, and no service between Myrtle-Wyckoff and Rockaway Parkway on the weekends. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 3 12:10:47 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 3 00:38:23 2015. Canarsie was added to the mix in 1906 by a connection at Snediker and Pitkin to the pre-existing Fulton el, pretty much the same curve as took P2 track onto the KC structure until it was recently torn down. |
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| (1368721) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 3 12:12:48 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by The Silence on Sat Oct 3 10:18:06 2015. You are answering a 2012 question as current in 2015? |
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| (1368726) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 3 12:51:45 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 3 12:10:47 2015. Canarsie was added to the Broadway el in 1906. The track connections were expanded and changed, between Atlantic ave and B'way Jct when the 14th St subway was finally connected to Broadway Junction in 1919. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 3 13:04:14 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 3 12:51:45 2015. Well, your dates and sequence are kind of off. |
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| (1368740) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by The Silence on Sat Oct 3 14:53:01 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 3 12:12:48 2015. no, I'm answering a 2015 question as current in 2015. Re-read the dates. B1bus only made that post yesterday. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by b1bus on Sat Oct 3 16:32:53 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by The Silence on Sat Oct 3 14:53:01 2015. Spiderpig brought the thread back to life. |
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| (1368756) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 3 16:57:35 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 3 12:10:47 2015. So Van Sinderen was built with the Dual Contracts? |
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| (1368766) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 3 18:45:59 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 3 16:57:35 2015. Yes. Formerly Vesta Avenue , in case you look at older maps. |
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| (1368778) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 3 20:09:06 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 3 13:04:14 2015. Where are they off? The Canarsie line never ran on the Fulton St el. In the mid-1890's, the Kings County Elevated RR attempted to buy the Brooklyn & Rockaway Beach (Canarsie line), but were outbid by the BRT. That's the closest the Fulton St el ever came to including the Canarsie line. |
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Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 3 20:42:24 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Fri Oct 2 21:28:01 2015. I date it from August 5th, 1919, when the Standard steel cars first went into service to Rockaway Parkway from Centre Street. |
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| (1368802) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Oct 3 23:45:44 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sat Oct 3 13:04:14 2015. Lol |
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| (1368818) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sun Oct 4 01:30:50 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 3 12:51:45 2015. I don't think the 14th St. line reached Manhattan Junction (or Broadway Junction as it is currently named) until 1928 (according to nycsubway.org) when the last section of the 14th St. line was completed. Mayor Hylan had blocked funding for this line as well as the Nassau St. line while he was in office. |
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| (1368820) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Oct 4 02:00:14 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 3 20:09:06 2015. The steel Standards were able to run to Rockaway Parkway from Centre St on Aug 5th, 1919. On July 14th, 1928, service from 14th St/6th ave began to Rockaway Pkwy. My mistake! |
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| (1368840) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Oct 4 11:00:04 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 3 20:09:06 2015. The Canaries connected to the Fulton Street Line at Pitkin and Snedikerror in 1906. |
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| (1368841) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Oct 4 11:02:22 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sun Oct 4 11:00:04 2015. *Canarsie *Snediker |
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| (1368842) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Oct 4 12:06:46 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by The Silence on Sat Oct 3 14:53:01 2015. What is happening to Atlantic avenue station? |
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| (1368853) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Oct 4 13:56:39 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 3 20:42:24 2015. But the structure was complete enough to be usable in October 1918, which more answers Pig's question. |
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| (1368859) | |
Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Oct 4 14:40:38 2015, in response to Re: Atlantic Avenue (Fulton/Canarsie), posted by SLRT on Sun Oct 4 13:56:39 2015. I believe so, yes. |
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