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| Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? (1364263) | |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 10:29:44 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Aug 30 20:41:30 2015. actually, considering the fact that the biggest city in the country has an almost totally useless (i.e., not up to the task of efficiently moving motor vehicles of all types into, around and through the city) limited-access highway system, there should be second thoughts given to the way everybody lambasted robert moses for his highway proposals. a real west side highway? cross-manhattan expressway? hell yes. basically, zeeing "the world as it is rather then the way it should be" thing. this, from a train-bus-el-subway-lrt-ferry-slidewalk luvin' screwball. but new york city highways are despicable. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 31 12:17:08 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 10:29:44 2015. there should be second thoughts given to the way everybody lambasted robert moses for his highway proposalsDepends on the consideration of alternate routes. The CBE is a disaster even today, for example, and could have been done differently. I would have liked to see a Mid-Manhattan Expressway (at least), but also an above-ground Union Station where all diesel trains could terminate without having to worry about "dual mode" nonsense and which could be shared with electric trains. It's more Moses' opposition to rail that he gets criticism for, and his big-government approach rather than free market. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 31 12:38:02 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 10:29:44 2015. highways within built up cities are despicable per se. why should we encourage more auto usage? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Aug 31 13:11:28 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 10:29:44 2015. I wonder if NYC remains the biggest city because the highways do not really intrude on its primary CBDs. No matter where you put highways, they will take up space, whether it be vertical or horizontal space, the actual roadways or just the pillars/foundations, and whether it be full streets or just exit-ramp intrusions. That means less space for the rest of the stuff within the CBD. A city's size is not known by its highway mileage, but by the amount of people around and activity going on.A person in a car takes up more space than a person on public transit. No matter how quickly a city adjusts to population growth by developing highways, you will run out of room with highways faster than you will with public transit. A city will always be able to "fit" more with a good public transit system than with a good highway system. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 31 13:55:34 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Aug 31 13:11:28 2015. YES! |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 14:40:59 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 31 12:38:02 2015. ...because, a city thrives on internal and external mobility. to shut out or minimize one transportation node, that most of the nation uses, seems foolish. afa concern about quality of life issues related to urban highways...tough beans. how dare one group of citizens block something that greatly benefits the entire country. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 14:46:21 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Aug 31 13:11:28 2015. still a narrow minded pov.to remain competitive we would really benefit from having a highway system that's made for today's driving conditions, not the 1930's to 1960's-era highway design standards we have now. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 31 15:07:03 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 14:40:59 2015. those benefits are in the main illusory. If you think uprooting orchards and farms for huge suburban shopping malls benefitted this country, you need to recalculate. If you think those citizens damaged by nearby highways have no right to be considered, then obviouly an el should be rammed down the street you live on because you (equal rights before the law) have no right to complain either.As to most of the nation using cars, yes, currently true, needs to be changed. And before anyone yells socialengineering, that is what the Federal Shild and later Interstate Highway systems were. Streetsblog http://sf.streetsblog.org/2015/08/28/in-1954-turning-market-street-into-a-parking-lot-seemed-like-a-good-idea/ has a story ofa plan to replace streetcar tracks with parking spaces. Dumb ideas have few limits, unfortunately too many are implemented. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 31 15:15:13 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 14:46:21 2015. no, we need both a massively rethought and reconstructed transit infrastructure, and major changes in land use policies. "todays driving conditions" need to vanish--not by wasting more land under tarmac, but by providing better options and moving the rurally located job centers back within easy transit access by urban dwellers. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Aug 31 16:09:21 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 14:46:21 2015. I don't see it. If highways were so essential, NYC would have been old news a long time ago. The subway system could be much cleaner and much more attractive and efficent, and perhaps highway funding should go to that. But if the average outer borough resident hops on a bus to the subway to a CBD for work and the city streets are kept clear for commercial vehicles to allow for deliveries and that sort of thing, I fail to see the problem.If we focus on expanding highways, that's money taken away from public transit would means more people inclined to drive, which means more time spent in traffic. If those who insist on driving to the city on weekdays, either because they have their own parking spot or pay for a lot or whatever, want to minimize the traffic they encounter on the way, they should support public transit to keep people there rather than encourage more people to join them on the road. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Aug 31 16:22:39 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 14:40:59 2015. a city thrives on internal and external mobilityYes, railroads and rapid transit have the potential to provide this mobility, if given proper funding. to shut out or minimize one transportation node, that most of the nation uses, seems foolish Yes, right now most of the nation uses the automobile, but take a flight across the country on a clear day and look down. Most of the nation is not skyscrapers and CBDs. I would simply recommend an arrangement that encourages people to leave their cars outside a CBD and there convert to public transit. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 31 17:22:58 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 14:40:59 2015. I see ZERO point in having highways penetrate the CBD for the sake of accessing the CBD. The way midtown has it, with the highways ending on the outter fringe of the CBD (Lincoln/Midtown tunnels, Henry Hudson Pkwy) is the right way. HOWEVER, it terms of crossing thru the CBD to get from the outskirts on one side (Jersey) to the outskirts on the other side (Long Island), then there's some merit to the argument. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 31 19:21:47 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 31 17:22:58 2015. The way midtown has it, with the highways ending on the outer fringe of the CBD (Lincoln/Midtown tunnels, Henry Hudson Pkwy) is the right wayTell that to anyone on 42nd Street or adjacent streets. Just about all of those trucks aren't dropping off locally; they're going from tunnel to tunnel. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 21:58:03 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Michael549 on Mon Aug 31 00:20:34 2015. Also, some metro areas, say Portland, OR, just aren't big enough to justify heavy rail rapid transit, if it were even possible. There are only a few places where light rail would fit into NYC, since it just can't handle the sheer volume of people, which is like nowhere else in the US. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:06:59 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 30 22:53:22 2015. Right. They're underpowered. No need for EMUs there. Just a better power/weight ratio. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:08:08 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by 3-9 on Mon Aug 31 00:00:14 2015. The bathrooms for one. That instantly kicks any FRA heavy rail train out from belonging in a first world country. This is a first world country, and first world countries have crappers on their trains.Secondly, Hyundai-Rotem makes GARBAGE. The T has gotten their garbage, and SEPTA has gotten their garbage. RTA should have learned to avoid Hyundai-Rotem crap. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:10:52 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Aug 31 02:43:51 2015. RTD is the organization doing this whole thing. Claiming that their vendor did such and such wrong means RTD did it wrong. They are responsible for how they structure their contracts, what they specify in them, and how they manage their vendors.They wanted to do high-level boarding, great, it's non-standard in the west for good for them for engineering to the highest standards. That, however, limited their options, but the NJT ALP/ML setup wouldn't be hard to do (or an ACS/ML setup). Or Comets, which have basically been the same design for decades, along with ACSs or ALPs. Or they could have built some whacky custom EMU. Doesn't sound like a great idea. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:12:49 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Aug 31 03:02:16 2015. The trains seem to come into some contact with Amtrak, although at low speeds. The single-tracking was a bad idea, but what's wrong with loco-hauled? At 4 cars, the loco-hauled is going to go the same speed or faster than the EMU sets... |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:20:01 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Mon Aug 31 10:29:44 2015. The highways are terrible because there hasn't been a big enough development of transit, and because of freight traffic. I drive every morning with truck draying containers out of Bayonne and Newark. It's completely ridiculous how we don't have the cross-harbor freight tunnel, and all of the freight for most of New England that comes from out west OR internationally has to cross the GWB, Trans Manhattan, and Cross Bronx. It creates parades of trucks that clear the GWB before rush hour and midday.The tunnel combined with an intermodal facility in Maspeth, and intermodal shuttles to Bridgeport, Cedar Hill, Davisville, Worcester, and maybe a couple of other places would really help reduce truck traffic. There is nowhere to physically put highways in NYC, so there won't ever be more than there are today. Transit at least can be run on a few existing ROWs, and improved on lines that run today, but are missing tracks or don't use their full capacity. For the roads, the tolls need to go up, and congestion charges need to be steeper. Congestion needs to be priced into people's living and working decisions. That being said, there needs to be more affordable TOD in the city and in outlying cities with rail service so that people who want to live in dense, urban environments can and aren't priced out of the market into the 'burbs and into their cars. It's hard to get from New England past NYC, so hopefully the new TZB, as big of a debacle as that has been, will offer a better bypass route. That being said, the government shouldn't be paying for that ridiculous boondoggle. It should pay for itself through tolls, which would need to be around $11-$12 as opposed to the absurdly low prices that they are today. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:23:35 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 31 15:07:03 2015. The US couldn't have grown the way that it did for decades without suburban development and suburban markets. The problem is that we've taken the policy to too much of an extreme. The same educational, racial, economic, and transportation policies that pushed people out into the 'burbs are still hurting vibrant cities, and most areas in the US never really had development policies, they just let development happen, which has caused the sprawl that we see throughout the Northeast.Today, we need to price in the cost of driving around on highways through tolls, we need to fund transit way more, and we need to limit any more suburban development in favor of densification of urban areas, along with the transit and infrastructure to support urban populations. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:24:28 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 31 15:15:13 2015. In order to have a high-complexity society, we have to have car-based transportation and suburbs. However, our policies have tilted so far towards suburbs, and we need to shift the balance the other direction. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:25:31 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Aug 31 16:22:39 2015. What need to happen is providing a good alternative to car-based mobility for as many uses as practically possible, and then pricing highway driving so that people have to pay for the highways, not just get a sort-of free rid on them. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:27:33 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 31 19:21:47 2015. Where are they going? It sounds like they need some adjustments to the toll structure to penalize trucks doing that. How much do the congestion charges penalize trucks that are out during rush hour? There shouldn't be trucks out during rush hour. Mid-day or the middle of the night. I can see that many already do that (of ones draying up through CT), but some don't. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Aug 31 23:49:53 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 31 19:21:47 2015. Did you bother to read the full post? You're only commenting on one sentence of a much larger thought. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Sep 1 00:10:15 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 30 15:05:09 2015. Well, they were supposed to keep up with the car traffic when on streets. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Sep 1 01:41:29 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:24:28 2015. "In order to have a high-complexity society, we have to have car-based transportation and suburbs" No, we don't need sov driving. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Sep 1 11:03:05 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Aug 31 15:07:03 2015. ahh. well, I've lived next to, in order of appearance:LIRR Rockaway Beach line. Jamaica avenue el train. Sea Beach subway line. New Utrecht Ave el train. Bay Ridge fourth avenue subway. LIRR Babylon branch (Babylon, bellmore and lynbrook. also lived adjacent to the southern state parkway, and the long island expressway. so I'm not the guy who would object to your scenario... |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Tue Sep 1 11:22:17 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:20:01 2015. ...afa NYC bypass routes, don't get me started on the poughkeepsi railroad bridge idiocy. we aughta be ashamed of ourselves. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Sep 1 13:11:36 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:20:01 2015. London charges more for city access even with public transit, that is if you are crossing the city you are encouraged to move in a circular route staying in zone 2 all the way around (rewarded with a cheaper fare if you "check in" to specific spots to identify your route), rather than going through the congested zone 1 which more or less represents a CBD. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Sep 1 13:42:26 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:27:33 2015. Assuming they're trying to get into and out of Queens and Long Island, which is the only thing I can think of, they're alternatives would be:-Goethals to SI Expwy to VN Bridge to Gowanus to BQE to LIE -GWB to Cross Bronx to Throgs Neck/Whitestone to Clearview Expwy or Whitestone Expwy to LIE Going east they have to pay the Port Authority toll no matter what to go from NJ to NY, but then the VN Bridge is free while the Queens Midtown tunnel and the Throgs Neck / Whitestone Bridges are major city tolls. Going west, there's no Port Authority toll but the VN Bridge is double the toll of the other intra-NYC crossings. If of course the Queens-Bronx bridges had their tolls brought down, while the CBD tolls (like the Queens-Midtown tunnel) went up, then it would be more of a slam dunk to companies to avoid Manhattan. Despite it's congestion, Manhattan still represents the shortest distance for lots of routes though and people will go there to save the gas, even if not much time. I regularly drive through Manhattan at all different hours without a destination there. And often enough, I won't pay a dime in tolls. It probably shouldn't be that way though. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Sep 1 15:04:21 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:08:08 2015. Have the Silverliners proven to be dogs maintenance-wise? I haven't heard anything about the cars being problems, though SEPTA may still be coddling them. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 1 17:32:38 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:20:01 2015. There are certainly areas to place more highways in NYC or convert existing roads into grade separated highways. You could deck over the Bay Ridge branch, the center lanes of Linden Blvd east of Kings Hwy can be elevated all the way to the Conduit. That right there could get trucks bound for LI off the Gowanus/BQE. You could build an elevated highway down the median of the Conduit from Linden Blvd to Atlantic Av, and an elevated highway over Atlantic Av from East New York all the way to the Van Wyck. Same goes for a large portion of Kings Hwy, Ocean Pkwy, Queens Blvd. I'm not necessarily saying all/any of these should be done or that they'd be easy, I'm just pointing it out. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Sep 1 18:05:30 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 1 17:32:38 2015. millions for transit, not one cent for highways |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Sep 1 21:29:55 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Sep 1 13:42:26 2015. Yeah, there should be no way to get into Manhattan without paying a hefty toll. As much traffic should be routed away from Manhattan as possible, although with the geography, there aren't a lot of options to get to LI. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Sep 1 21:33:24 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 1 17:32:38 2015. Those all sound like TERRIBLE ideas, and ones that would get legitimate NIMBYism. NYC needs to deal with the streets and highways that it has today. So the only real answer is transit and rail freight. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Sep 1 21:46:39 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Sep 1 01:41:29 2015. Yeah, actually, a lot of businesses don't work well in a city. Like most industrial operations, especially heavy industry. Anything to do with transportation and logistics, warehousing, movie sets, lots of things. We should encourage businesses that consist entirely of people at desks to be in transit-accessible areas, but not every part of the industry is that. America wouldn't be what it is today without the highway system and SOVs. But we need to move away from that as the nearly exclusive model, as it is in many places, including some cities that have no transit whatsoever. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Sep 1 21:52:07 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Tue Sep 1 11:22:17 2015. The Poughkeepsie bridge was a shame, but it likely wouldn't serve much purpose today. That route is twisty and windy, and doesn't really do anything for NYC proper, due to the route to get to the bridge. I suppose it would have helped keep more carload business in CT, but that's about it. It was a feeder for Cedar Hill, along with the car floats, but virtually all of that business is gone, because the industries that supported it are gone. What we need is the Cross-Harbor Tunnel combined with aggressive intermodal services. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Sep 1 21:52:21 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by 3-9 on Tue Sep 1 15:04:21 2015. Everything Hyundai-Rotem makes is garbage. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Sep 1 22:28:34 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Mon Aug 31 22:08:08 2015. "The bathrooms for one"There's actually a decent number of multiple units and locomotive hauled rolling stock that doesn't include bathrooms in Western Europe, so it's not exactly second world railroading. Plus, the Silverliners were specified without bathrooms per SEPTA request. I suspect that anybody else could have secured a bathroom had they asked. FWIW, the Silver IVs don't have bathrooms either... |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 1 22:44:21 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Sep 1 21:33:24 2015. There are definitely chunks that would by NIMBY'd, but roads like Linden Blvd, I don't see much opposition coming out. Bay Ridge Branch/Linden Blvd into the Conduit (which goes into Nassau Expressway and Sunrise Hwy) would actually be a fantastic alternative to getting to LI for drivers. Face it, we need expansion of both our road and rail network, not only one. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 1 22:46:52 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Aug 31 03:02:16 2015. Can we send these down to PR? I'm sure they can get an FRA exemption there at least since there's currently NOTHING |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 1 22:48:23 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Sep 1 22:28:34 2015. That's right, no bathrooms for you Philly! Remember, while this may be a first world country, Philly is a 3rd world city :D |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Sep 1 22:52:23 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Sep 1 21:52:07 2015. "What we need is the Cross-Harbor Tunnel combined with aggressive intermodal services. "That's the secret problem of building that tunnel. It's a high cost capital project, but it's limited in scope given that the ports are more accessible in Jersey, and there isn't a good site on the New York side that's near the expressway in Queens, and the LIRR would probably chase anything resembling frequent freight service. A location out east could work, but again, anything going to Nassau or Queens will still be trucked from Jersey. So again, why should we spend billions on something that may see somewhat marginal use? In other words, is operating another intermodal facility and tunnel cost effective versus the status quo of sitting on the George Washington Bridge and Cross Bronx in traffic. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Sep 1 22:56:52 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 1 22:46:52 2015. Given that they can work as regional and intercity units, they'd be perfect for Puerto Rico. :-) |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Wed Sep 2 01:30:00 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Tue Sep 1 21:33:24 2015. not terrible. simply realistic scenarios. nyc does not exist in a vacuum, as much as we like to think it does. even we need modern, safe highways. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Sep 2 13:49:36 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Sep 1 22:52:23 2015. There's already the facility currently operating in Yaphank or Calverton, no? In Queens or Brooklyn I see only 3 options really1. Bay Ridge. Train emerges of the tunnel then reverses to more or less where the floats are, but that involves reversing a freight and there is no easy access onto the Gowanus 2. NYCT Linden Shop @ Linden Blvd/Rockaway Av/Avenue D. This would require elevating the center lanes of Linden Blvd to the Conduit for easy access to the Van Wyck and Sunrise Hwy. Is there any rail freight traffic that is headed to JFK? The major problems, other than the cost, are that the Van Wyck is already packed out and truckers may opt for Linden Blvd/Church Av to the Prospect Expressway to the BQE for Queens instead, negatively effecting those neighborhoods between the yard and the Prospect Expressway 3. Maspeth/Haberman. Somewhere along 56th Rd with easy LIE access via Maurice Av. I'd say this is hands down the best option available in terms of highway access and minimal impact on the neighborhood, but it would require taking space away from private industry. Even with that though, it's my #1 choice |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Sep 2 13:56:08 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Sep 2 13:49:36 2015. Also possible is the site of the former LIRR Bushwick station, between Morgan Av, Meserole St, Johnson Av, and Bushwick Av. The entrance/exit for the facility would be on Morgan Av so trucks aren't using streets that are more residential to access the BQE. This and Maspeth/Haberman are the best options IMO |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Sep 2 15:16:09 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 1 22:46:52 2015. San Juan has El Tren Urbano. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Sep 2 16:12:37 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue Sep 1 22:28:34 2015. I know that SEPTA screwed up on that. As did RTD. SEPTA is a disgrace to Philly and a disgrace to America. Even the incompetent, pathetic LIRR has a place to take a sh*t on their trains.Where does Western Europe have heavy rail trains without bathrooms? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Wed Sep 2 16:14:26 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 1 22:44:21 2015. No. The problem with road expansion is that, except for some bottlenecks, adding more road capacity just creates more traffic. If anything, streets like 42nd street should be turned into pedestrian-only streets, and other streets should have more bus and bike lanes added. |
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