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| Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly (1351660) | |
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| (1351896) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu May 14 10:10:12 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by AlM on Thu May 14 08:06:02 2015. I like the engineering explanations, center of gravity, centripetal force...My work career only took me as far as a design/draftsman, mechanical, never had the "smarts" to be a mechanical engineer, but I worked with some engineers and learned a lot. From an average layman's view,it just looks like you couldn't keep that train on the rails on that curve at anything over 60 mph. Just my two cents. |
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| (1351901) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu May 14 10:25:27 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 09:11:22 2015. The bill, which also funded housing, was rejected because it violated President Obama's "spending cap" which mandates no new [spending] without equal cuts elsewhere.Because the right had always lavished money on Amtrak prior to having such restrictions... How about reducing some of the proposed $612 billion defense spending bill (which itself violates the spending cap)? |
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| (1351905) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by AlM on Thu May 14 10:36:53 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu May 14 10:09:39 2015. He is getting very good advice from his lawyer. |
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| (1351906) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by AlM on Thu May 14 10:39:40 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu May 14 10:10:12 2015. Jersey Mike points out that the curve is strongly banked. That increases the speed that a train can take the curve at, since it reduces sideways forces on the rails. But I guess 102 to 106 failed. |
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| (1351908) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 10:58:17 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu May 14 08:52:36 2015. I sense a certain lack of common sense here. Isn't PTC also supposed to be used when you want to limit a train's speed on things like curves? |
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| (1351909) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 10:59:36 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu May 14 10:25:27 2015. Defense is one of the few legitimate expenditures of the Federal Government. |
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| (1351910) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 11:00:40 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 07:39:01 2015. Yeah, privately owned railroads never had crashes. |
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| (1351911) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 11:01:17 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 10:59:36 2015. Still has to be paid for, though. |
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| (1351912) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 11:03:16 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 09:12:57 2015. Or, Congress can try raising taxes. Or getting rid of unnecessary tax cuts. |
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| (1351913) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu May 14 11:10:47 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by AlM on Thu May 14 10:39:40 2015. Jersey Mike knows his stuff, and taking that into consideration, it still comes down to 102 to 106 was too fast. |
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| (1351918) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Thu May 14 11:52:34 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu May 14 08:52:36 2015. That doesn't make any sense. There's some serious blood on Amtrak's hands. On the Shore Line, it's been protecting every single signal and speed restriction since 1999. PTC is such an obvious no-brainer. It's sad that we had to have Chatsworth and now Spyuten Dyuvil and now this. It should have been done at least on the NEC 15 years ago. You can make the technological argument for the rest of the country, since ACSES doesn't scale on low-density freight lines, but we know it works on dense passenger-centric lines. |
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| (1351919) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Thu May 14 11:53:23 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 10:58:17 2015. Serious lack of common sense. That's exactly what ACSES does between NHV and BOS. |
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| (1351925) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 12:37:31 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 11:00:40 2015. And when they didn't, they at least had the common sense to call it ... "The CONGRESSIONAL."
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| (1351926) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 12:43:25 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 09:11:22 2015. Are you serious?I really don't want to drag OTchat onto the main board but "hell's bells" here. We've waited for a budget for three years and they're nowhere near done on it. They had to do this before 24 hours had passed since the wreck? This is the epitome of brass clangers here! They could have at least waited a few days. This is spitting in the eye of those who died and were injured in this wreck, throwing them all the middle finger. Has your side no shame at all? :( |
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| (1351929) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 12:46:47 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 07:51:57 2015. Yep. |
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| (1351930) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 12:49:11 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R30A on Thu May 14 07:59:43 2015. The SEPTA train did report apparent gunshots. Something else might have been going on there as well, but as others point out, that wouldn't have made the train speed up since it takes a while to gather that speed.If it was terrorism of any sort, they'd prefer to put a bomb on the rails or open up the joints instead of shooting at it. |
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| (1351931) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu May 14 13:02:23 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 07:50:45 2015. THe train came from Washington. Was there a crew change at Philly??If that was the case, An exhausted engineer should not be a factor unless he was on a "short swing" as in just came in & went right out. |
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| (1351934) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 13:48:30 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 11:03:16 2015. Tax cuts bring in MORE revenue.You raise the taxes and the people with the money simply take it out of the country. ROAR |
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| (1351935) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 13:52:01 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu May 14 13:02:23 2015. NOPE. The engineer went on duty in NYC he took the train to WAS and was now on his return trip.ROAR |
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| (1351936) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 13:55:57 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 13:48:30 2015. They've been doing that already, tax cuts or no. |
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| (1351937) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by R2Chinatown on Thu May 14 13:59:24 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 12:43:25 2015. Are you serious? First, PTC was funded. It has been installed in that area on the southbound track but not the northbound track. No one spit in anyone's eyes. You seem to be deliberately misrepresenting the facts. Wasn't PTC one of those shovel ready jobs that we threw $billions at? |
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| (1351947) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by displaced angeleno on Thu May 14 14:50:57 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 13:48:30 2015. Tax cuts might bring in more revenue or they might not. A review of the Laffer Curve is in order.Particularly this section: "In 2005, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) released a paper called 'Analyzing the Economic and Budgetary Effects of a 10 Percent Cut in Income Tax Rates'....In the paper's most generous estimated growth scenario, only 28% of the projected lost revenue from the lower tax rate would be recouped over a 10-year period after a 10% across-the-board reduction in all individual income tax rates." 
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| (1351962) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Dave on Thu May 14 15:50:48 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2Chinatown on Thu May 14 13:59:24 2015. What's that you say? Selkirk deliberately misrepresenting the facts? Say it ain't so! |
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| (1351980) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 16:14:38 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2Chinatown on Thu May 14 13:59:24 2015. Where did you hear that PTC is fully funded for Amtrak? Amtrak is still requesting funds for it, and they aren't getting what they're requesting. |
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| (1351981) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Jace on Thu May 14 16:20:50 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 13 18:11:16 2015. Agreed, but the big difference here is the catenary. There was a four track H type catenary support right at the point of derailment. The locomotive probably clipped it, the first car then speared it. That's the only way I can see how that first car got so totally destroyed. |
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| (1351988) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu May 14 16:56:48 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 13:52:01 2015. Ok thanks! |
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| (1351990) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 17:15:41 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 16:14:38 2015. So then your contention is that PTC was funded for virtually the entire NEC except for the section of track where this accident took place. Is that what you are claiming?FACT: The bill that was rejected was a multi-facet bill that also funded airports,highway,housing and rails. Blaming the house now because this 2 decades old technology which was mandated 7 years ago to be installed but has not been completed is just exploiting this tragedy to support liberal political rhetoric. Get your facts straight |
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| (1351992) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 17:24:52 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 17:15:41 2015. So then your contention is that PTC was funded for virtually the entire NEC except for the section of track where this accident took place. Is that what you are claiming?No, that is what you're claiming, among other unproven claims that PTC has been fully funded. FACT: The bill that was rejected was a multi-facet bill that also funded airports,highway,housing and rails. Blaming the house now because this 2 decades old technology which was mandated 7 years ago to be installed but has not been completed is just exploiting this tragedy to support liberal political rhetoric. Get your facts straight No, I'm just blaming the ones who are currently trying to have Amtrak defunded or at least as unfunded as possible. Strangely, the vast majority of them consider themselves "conservative". |
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| (1351998) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 17:34:57 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 17:24:52 2015. Yes, I see your point. That's why AMTRAK was fully funded and PTC was completed while the liberals had both houses and all that stimulus money. Maybe the democrats didn't see it as so important when they had control of all that money and used it to buy votes for democrats. |
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| (1352002) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 17:45:01 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 17:34:57 2015. Yeah, I'm sure Amtrak has been getting everything they request for God knows how long now. And PTC for Amtrak was the only shovel ready project in the country for that blank check stimulus in 2009, so that got fully funded right off the bat.*rolls eyes* |
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| (1352005) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 17:57:01 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 17:45:01 2015. Childish arguments even for you. Do you think that AMTRAK actually needs or even believed that they would get everything that they asked for?As for "shove ready", PTC was deemed important enough 7 years ago. If you actually believe that PTC was not fully funded, why wasn't it when the democrats controlled both houses. What is different now that was not in existence then. Politics? |
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| (1352006) | |
Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 18:03:49 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 13:52:01 2015. Surprising information about Engineer Bostian.Amtrak Engineer |
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| (1352007) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 18:10:28 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2Chinatown on Thu May 14 13:59:24 2015. LOL!Much flailing. So uninform. Very President Jeb. Wow.  Cab signalling is not PTC. PTC has only been installed in a handful of locations in states that don't vote your way. Here's a map where it's PARTIALLY implemented. Look for the Philadelphia area on the map and get back to us.  Playing major blowhard when you've got nothing ... Fail. |
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| (1352008) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 18:12:00 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 17:15:41 2015. Then WHY did they have to do this when not even 24 hours has expired since the wreck? You mean to tell us the entire budget bill was finished and passed yesterday? |
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| (1352009) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 14 18:12:51 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu May 14 17:57:01 2015. Do you think that AMTRAK actually needs or even believed that they would get everything that they asked for?And who was it that just decided what Amtrak doesn't need? If you actually believe that PTC was not fully funded, why wasn't it when the democrats controlled both houses. What is different now that was not in existence then. Politics? Politics, the stimulus wasn't backed up by unlimited funds, and the whole project wasn't shovel-ready? Tell you what, if conservatives are so pro-rail and pro-safety, why haven't THEY proposed fully funding PTC in the YEARS they've been in control of the House? Hell, considering how many Democrats want to fund Amtrak, it should blow right through the Senate in a filibuster-proof majority. |
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| (1352010) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 18:20:41 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Jace on Thu May 14 16:20:50 2015. Very likely the first car T-boned the pillar and the cars behind it wrapped it around it. :( |
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| (1352011) | |
An Acela Express Was Also Hit By a Projectile Shortly Before Crash ...Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before: |
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Posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 19:16:27 2015, in response to Re: Incident to SEPTA there minutes before:, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 13 15:45:45 2015. Another Amtrak Train Was Hit in Philly around 9:05PM |
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| (1352012) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 19:27:15 2015, in response to Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 18:03:49 2015. Here's a New York Times piece on Engineer Bostian.More about Brandon Bostian I'm beginning to feel that the engineer was not responsible for the accident. He may have been knocked out by an object striking the locomotive. |
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| (1352026) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu May 14 22:04:03 2015, in response to Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 18:03:49 2015. He was also a SubTalker back in the day.your pal, Fred |
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| (1352030) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 22:18:11 2015, in response to Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Fred G on Thu May 14 22:04:03 2015. I didn't know that.Fred... What do you think caused the derailment? |
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| (1352031) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu May 14 22:23:48 2015, in response to Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 22:18:11 2015. Paul I really don't know and not only am I not speculating but I'm not even discussing it. I can wait for the federales to do their work.your pal, Fred |
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| (1352032) | |
Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by nostalgia on Thu May 14 22:28:39 2015, in response to Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu May 14 13:52:01 2015. Engineer's Tuesday assignment is to work the 2PM Acela to Washington and return to New York on #188. |
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| (1352035) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 22:38:27 2015, in response to Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Fred G on Thu May 14 22:23:48 2015. Okay, Fred, I understand how you feel.I'll just talk to myself about it. On the surface, it seemed that the engineer was at fault. The train was going 106, into a curved section that had a restricted speed of 50. He must have been nuts. But the the reports of a SEPTA and AMTRAK being hit within 20 or 30 minutes nearby seems to be a strange coincidence. I would think the camera recording out the front would show if the train was struck. The NTSB report this afternoon focused on the speedometer readings. I wonder if the police have been investigating the projectiles thrown at the 2 other trains? |
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| (1352045) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 23:22:49 2015, in response to Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 22:38:27 2015. FWIW, FBI and DHS are also looking into it. On the night of the wreck, they examined the train and dismissed "terrorism" as a potential cause. |
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| (1352051) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu May 14 23:38:50 2015, in response to Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Fred G on Thu May 14 22:04:03 2015. Do you know what his handle was? |
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| (1352052) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 23:40:12 2015, in response to Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu May 14 23:38:50 2015. I'm wondering if it was that "HHP" guy. Seemed to be a real good guy too. |
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| (1352054) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu May 14 23:41:17 2015, in response to Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 23:22:49 2015. I have to think it was probably the same as the Metro North derailment, that he dozed off. |
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| (1352056) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 14 23:45:21 2015, in response to Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu May 14 23:41:17 2015. Well, now that the "projectile" thing has come up, I was watching channel 10 out of Philly up here and when Nutter held his first press conference, he stated that FBI and DHS had examined the locomotive because of the cracks in the windscreen and determined that there was no "terrorism" connection that they could establish because CNN beat FOX to running the terrorist flag up the pole as soon as the story was "breaking". FBI and DHS said "nope" to that.I agree, it does look like it might just turn out to be another undiagnosed case of apnea behind this one too. |
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| (1352058) | |
Re: Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by Easy on Thu May 14 23:51:49 2015, in response to Engineer Bostian Is a Long Time Railfan Who Loves His Job...Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by heypaul on Thu May 14 18:03:49 2015. Wasn't the Metrolink engineer that caused the crash while texting also a railfan? |
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| (1352060) | |
Interesting new development: Re: Major Amtrak derailment in Philly |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 15 00:54:54 2015, in response to Major Amtrak derailment in Philly, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 12 21:35:00 2015. In the latest revelation of circumstances surrounding the crash, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said the train had inexplicably sped up from about 70 mph to 100-plus mph in the last 65 seconds before the crash, according to video from the locomotive's front-facing camera.Quoted from story here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/15/us-usa-train-derailment-idUSKBN0NZ18Z20150515?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews This almost seems to suggest that the engineer might have been incapacitated right before the crash, and could have possibly fallen on the throttle, causing the "mystery acceleration" possibly. Here's a view of the cab:  And details:  The controls in these locomotives are digital, so the possibility could be there that either the engineer fell forward and accelerated wildly or there could have also been a failure of the digital control system. Just thought I'd bring this up because the sudden acceleration headed towards the curve is quite abnormal. |
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