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| Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power (1348593) | |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by coneyisl on Thu Apr 23 13:51:42 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Apr 23 12:36:13 2015. I'm curious too. I haven't been able to find any discussion into what the thinking was regarding EMU max speeds. Perhaps the restriction was an FRA requirement based on the proximity to freight operations? The number "79" is kind of weird in that it seems to suggest that there was a "below 80" restriction. There is only one stretch along the line where it seems likely they will run at full speed. Well, at least it is above the 65 mph limit road vehicles are restricted to inside the airport (although in practice that is more like minimum speed:). Plus, strangely enough, the right of way takes a more direct approach into the airport along that stretch, which will in essence make the ride quicker if not faster (whatever that means). |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 14:03:42 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 22 07:01:13 2015. Keep dreaming about East Bronx. It'll never happen. No room in Penn even with some LIRR moved into ESA eight years down the road maybe. I don't like public-private partnerships, but they do get things done faster than top-heavy public entities.And why is Denver waiting until next year to open the line when it's essentially completed, besides? Never mind the cost overruns thus far. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 23 14:46:27 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 14:03:42 2015. Plenty of room near Penn. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 23 15:11:55 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 14:03:42 2015. I'm not an expert, but since many folks on here say NYP is at capacity, for the sake of argument, I'll grant that is the case.BUT- with just a little imagination, couldn't that problem be overcome? |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 23 15:12:45 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 22 18:53:56 2015. That's 79mph faster than NYC's direct airport connection. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Apr 23 15:15:56 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 23 15:11:55 2015. Of course it could be. But that's not how Olog-hai thinks. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Apr 23 15:16:44 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 23 15:12:45 2015. Yeah but it means you're in Denver and not NYC. Which would probably suck. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 17:48:53 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Apr 23 15:15:56 2015. Nothing can be solved with mere imagination alone. I can imagine that the ESA is running (it was supposed to be open eight years ago and cost just $4½ billion) and that LIRR would actually give up slots for an imaginary East Bronx commuter service, but I prefer reality. And reality says that all the NY politicians' hot air shall come to naught. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Apr 23 17:51:06 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Apr 23 15:16:44 2015. Have you ever been to Denver? |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 17:52:11 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Apr 23 15:11:55 2015. It's not just "many folks on here". It's the MTA, Amtrak and NJT who say NYP is at capacity. Its 21 tracks and platforms, never mind the tunnels, were not built for the absurd amount of commuter traffic it currently hosts—when it first opened, it was supplemented by the waterfront terminal formerly at Exchange Place, and the contents of two other waterfront terminals were not shoe-horned into it. Even before NJT's wonderful Waterfront Connection, it was evident that more trains would mean slower service—and NJT's NEC trains are 10 mph slower in terms of average speed, never mind the other lines that now feed into it from the Hoboken Division. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Apr 23 18:04:20 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 17:52:11 2015. IAWTP. I don't know all the logistics of Penn Station, but maybe you can squeeze out a bit more by doing more work on the switches, maybe tweaking the operating procedures. After that, it comes down to tunnelling and expansion of Penn Station. Even expanding Hoboken is going to be a pain, because so much of the area it used to occupy has been given over to others. And even if you do divert more trains to the waterfront, who's going to want to take them? The majority of the people want to go to midtown Manhattan and Penn Station, where the action currently is. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Apr 23 18:24:04 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Apr 23 12:36:13 2015. Maybe it has to do with the max speed of the track? What class is it? |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 23 18:58:00 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by coneyisl on Thu Apr 23 13:51:42 2015. I can see those trains running at full speed along Pena Blvd. It's doubtful that they'll go that fast along Smith Rd., given all the grade crossings. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 23 19:30:10 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by coneyisl on Thu Apr 23 11:34:40 2015. Denver (and for that matter, Colorado) has had a reputation for being a just-say-no city and state for years. Voters shot down the 1976 Winter Olympic Games (before my time), the first time the IOC had ever been snubbed. In retrospect, it was just as well, given the concerns over paying for the Games, but on the flip side, we'll probably never be awarded the Games again. The IOC has a long memory. Then in 1980, voters said no to a 77-mile light rail system. I voted yes and just about everyone I spoke with who voted in that election voted yes as well. A lot of people were opposed to DIA, feeling that Stapleton was just fine, overlooking the fact that in bad weather, all incoming flights had to be funneled onto one runway, creating a nationwide bottleneck. Then there were those who didn't want Major League Baseball, saying there were more head of cattle than baseball fans. I'm still a Mets fan - hey, they've won 11 in a row! |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 23 19:33:37 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 14:03:42 2015. It's a requirement that all new cars log 1000 miles of testing before going into service. Denver's LRVs had to log 1500 miles apiece. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 23 19:36:17 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 22 19:13:18 2015. Those gears sounds were quite literally music to my ears. I was mesmerized by them. Let's face it - I had to have something to take my mind off of leaving Indiana, and those old timers were just what the doctor ordered. My mother liked to joke that I forgot all about South Bend after one subway ride on our first visit to NYC two weeks after moving to Jersey 48 years ago at this time. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 23 20:04:17 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 23 19:36:17 2015. Heh. I find the NTT cars annoying to listen to. :( |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Apr 24 00:11:04 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 22 18:58:38 2015. when I asked if commuter rail trains were going to have conductors, I was told yes.Well that's unfortunate. Bad enough they saddled themselves with FRA compatibility at a time when a waiver would have saved a boatload of capital and operational outlay. One day they're gonna be stuck trying to implement OPTO and non-compatible equipment and cursing whoever decided to build a 1940s railroad. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Apr 24 08:13:56 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Apr 23 17:51:06 2015. No. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Apr 24 08:14:32 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 17:48:53 2015. You don't understand reality. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by localacrosstheplatform on Fri Apr 24 09:15:08 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by coneyisl on Thu Apr 23 11:34:40 2015. Fantastic summary. As an aside, DIA was a great example of forward-thinking. Not only did the city annex land outside the city for its new airport, it annexed enough land to expand, and arranged the airport and its environs such a way so that expansions are very easy, rather than having to be shoehorned in.There's a great book, Aerotropolis, that contrasts Denver's approach with that of other cities, namely Chicago. With all this rail coming in, I may have to make a trip out to Denver next year. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by coneyisl on Fri Apr 24 12:00:25 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by WillD on Fri Apr 24 00:11:04 2015. You may be right, but hiring Conductors was considered one of the "Successes" of FasTracks in a case study profile by the Federal Highway Administration. "FasTracks will provide 10,000 jobs at the height of construction, and will bring more jobs to the region even after the project is completed through the need for train conductors, landscaping crews, etc." ....just reporting the news.... |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by coneyisl on Fri Apr 24 12:11:59 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Apr 23 19:30:10 2015. You said a mouthful. Absent of all of the LoDo development that can be directly attributed to Coors Field, the DUS rehab might never have happened.P.S.- I still have the Mets set as my "other Favorite" on my MLB AtBat app (Rockies 1st of course). |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by coneyisl on Fri Apr 24 12:18:45 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by localacrosstheplatform on Fri Apr 24 09:15:08 2015. Come on down. We have two great railroad museums and a Narrow Gauge excursion railroad within a 45 minute drive of downtown.Thanks for the tip on the book! |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Apr 24 12:35:14 2015, in response to Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by coneyisl on Sun Apr 19 19:55:30 2015. EMU? |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Apr 24 16:44:55 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by localacrosstheplatform on Fri Apr 24 09:15:08 2015. With all this rail coming in, I may have to make a trip out to Denver next year.If you're a railfan, it's probably the best place in that region of the country. If you're an transit advocate, it's probably going to remind you of why transit planning in the States is so terrible compared to the rest of the world. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Apr 24 17:52:12 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by coneyisl on Fri Apr 24 12:00:25 2015. It's all fun, games, and "job creation" until it's time to pay the pension or renegotiate a contract. Any idea if they're gonna use POP and leave the conductor to operating tasks, or will the C/R be required to check fares as well? |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 24 19:10:40 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by WillD on Fri Apr 24 00:11:04 2015. Maybe someday it will be extended to Trinidad or Cheyenne (just kidding). |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Apr 24 20:54:24 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by WillD on Fri Apr 24 00:11:04 2015. Each set of doors has a button that allows them to be opened when the light illuminates. Our LRVs have that same feature. Since stations along the way appear to be only long enough to accommodate two cars, and since the platforms at DIA and Union Station can accommodate substantially longer trains (I'd say eight cars, at least), I suspect they may platform only two select cars at any given station and release the locks on those sets of doors that platform. I would say that one of the conductors' jobs will be to open and close the doors or at least release the locks. I would also imagine they will collect tickets. We have fare inspectors on LRVs who will ask you to show your ticket or pass, but they don't collect them - mainly because those tickets and passes are also good on buses. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Apr 24 20:56:31 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by localacrosstheplatform on Fri Apr 24 09:15:08 2015. Those of you who remember Anon_e_mouse may be interested to know that he and I railfanned our light rail system on two separate occasions when he was out here. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Apr 24 20:57:45 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by coneyisl on Fri Apr 24 12:11:59 2015. I've been a Mets fan since 1968 and have never waivered. Naturally, I remember the '69 Miracle Mets very well. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Apr 24 21:36:15 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Apr 24 20:57:45 2015. Not '69, but close enough. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 24 23:19:09 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Apr 24 20:57:45 2015. You need a waiver to be a Mets fan? |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 25 11:15:55 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 24 23:19:09 2015. LOL |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 26 15:58:16 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Apr 24 20:54:24 2015. One other observation: although there is a 4.5-mile single-track stretch along Pena Blvd., there is a provision for a second track. For instance, the bridge over E-470 has room for a second track, as does another bridge over a gulch just before E-470. Plus the entire stretch was graded to permit a second track to be built when needed. However, the long, sweeping bridge over Airport Blvd. and I-70 is a single-track bridge.The bridge over Pena Blvd. as the line approaches the airport is double tracked. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 29 06:50:09 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by coneyisl on Thu Apr 23 11:34:40 2015. Thank you for this it of insight. I have been to Boulder and Denver a few times, so I know what you mean about available land and the major railroad hubs. It's not hard to imagine there would have been ROWs available as well. I'd also think that the lower labor costs and far less need to acquire real estate helped the most.But at the same time, my frustration with NYC near inability to get anything done remains. We also have available ROWs. While construction and operating expenses are far higher out here, I think our biggest problem is f***ing NIMBYs. Because of them, we have NO direct airport connections, and they'd also probably be able to prevent reactivation of SIRs North Shore line if that was ever seriously put forward. And I'm sure that's just 2 out of dozens of worthwhile projects they've killed. Heck, I can remember in 1994, NIMBYs seriously delayed improving an LIRR grade crossing on Stewart Avenue. They thought the new warning light gantry was too ugly. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 29 06:55:00 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 17:48:53 2015. Obviously, imagination (in the strictest sense of the word) can't make anything happen in the physical world.But by "imagination" what I actually meant was "forward thinking", "funding", and "will to make it happen" on the part of the whole community, from the governors of NY & NJ to the mayor of NYC to the poorest rider of the c train to make it happen. When those forces have occasionally come together, enormous things have happened. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 29 06:57:45 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 23 17:52:11 2015. But since I don't work for any railroad or transit system and have no engineering background, I chose not to make an authoritative statement that NYP was at capacity.But from what I've personally observed, I will not dispute or question anyone who says that it's at or over capacity. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by localacrosstheplatform on Wed Apr 29 11:04:36 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Fri Apr 24 16:44:55 2015. Can you elaborate on your second statement? Curious. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 29 11:46:29 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by localacrosstheplatform on Wed Apr 29 11:04:36 2015. I'm heading to Colorado Springs for the USA Hockey Annual Congress the first week of June. Since I'm arriving in Denver and driving down I'm going to have to allow a bit of extra time to see "the sights" |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by coneyisl on Wed Apr 29 13:22:53 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 29 11:46:29 2015. Colorado Rail Museum. 17155 W 44th Ave, Golden, CO 80403 303-279-4591. This is a fun place for several reasons. It is right up against the Foothills and has a great view of the Coors Brewery, but more importantly they run trains on Saturdays! They have an oval track that is double-tracked Standard/Narrow Gauge. They run trains of both variety.Forney Museum of Transportation. 4303 Brighton Blvd, Denver, CO 80216 (303) 297-1113. This one is just north of downtown. Great for Steam lovers. If you are a car enthusiast (especially Cadillac) you will love this place too. Light Rail- The West Line is the one that runs along an old trolley right of way, which you really can't see anymore and doesn't really run very fast at all. Towards the end of the line there is a long flyover bridge that offers a beautiful view of the Front Range. Either of the South Corridor lines will reach top speeds of 55mph. Trains out of Union Station are interesting as they pass Mile Hi Stadium, The Pepsi Center and Elitch's Amusement Park and run adjacent to BNSF right of way and then UP right of way. Trains from Central Denver are interesting if you like street level running. Maybe you'll get lucky and see the EMUs getting tested along the new East Line! |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 29 13:51:40 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by coneyisl on Wed Apr 29 13:22:53 2015. Last time out I used the Light Rail, I will try and fit in the other suggestions, I'm going out Amtrak to see the rebuilt station, even though they would give plane tickets. Thank you for the ideas! |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Apr 29 18:40:38 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by coneyisl on Wed Apr 29 13:22:53 2015. The W line is probably the slowest line in the entire light rail network - mainly because it runs through a lot of residential areas. For instance, the speed limit is 35 along the stretch where it runs down the middle of 13th Ave. The tracks are fenced off, so traffic doesn't intermingle, plus all grade crossings are double gated. Operators don't blow the horn at crossings unless they have to. I've also noticed that about the only time they ever run three-car W trains is during Bronco games. That's when C and E trains grow to four cars. |
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Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Apr 30 00:39:23 2015, in response to Re: Denver EMUs Running Under Power, posted by localacrosstheplatform on Wed Apr 29 11:04:36 2015. Most likely he's referring to the fact that most of the T-Rex expansion of the LRT network was done with highway median and adjacent construction. The highway greatly limits the options for transit oriented development in station catchment areas. |
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