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| Re: Penn Station (1331964) | |
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| (1333965) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 16 18:57:20 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Fri Jan 16 00:15:39 2015. So why doesn't everyone just head down from the LIRR concourses when Amtrak is on Track 13 or greater ?Because Amtrak has no presence there, nor will they in the upper concourse assuming Moynihan happens. Because 98% of passengers now load from the west and east gates on the upper concourse as they were instructed, not from the arrivals concourse, not from West End concourse, not the LIRR concourse. Because passengers are not foamers like you and they will head to the established boarding area, which is Moynihan, like it or not. |
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| (1333973) | |
Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 16 19:45:30 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 16 13:45:13 2015. Doesn't Penn Central still exist today as some other name ? (American Premier Underwriters ?)If 2 PP and MSG were to be gotten bulldozed, yes, build a new station that reflects current traffic patterns, has some natural light, fibre optic lights, climate controlled, is ADA compliant, and has some commercial air rights. It has to be designed from scratch by people who know what they are doing, or we will wind up with another abortion like Fulton Transit Center or Secaucus Junction I (go up to go down, and vice versa). I don't know if that is possible to do that anymore. That does not mean replicating what was there. It won't work and nobody care anymore what was there 50 years ago. |
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| (1333991) | |
Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 17 01:15:57 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 16 19:45:30 2015. Nah, it's not "Secaucus Junction" by itself, but "Frank Lautenberg Station at Secaucus Junction". |
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| (1333998) | |
Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Jan 17 04:14:03 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Michael549 on Fri Jan 16 02:35:01 2015. Mike:What I have been talking about and has been suggested elsewhere for a new MSG is a stretch of land from 28th-30th streets and 9th-10th Avenues that currently is I believe used by the Post Office for the most part that they are expected to vacate in the next decade. This would be not too far from the original MSG, and while not quite as transit-friendly a location as the current MSG, it is one that is within reasonable walking distance of quite a few options along with one that can be built if a new MSG is: The new option would be extending the (7) one stop to a new terminal that would officially be 28th Street, but would run from 28th-30th streets with exits at 28th, 29th and 30th Streets, designed that way to handle crowds to and from MSG with two side platforms instead of an island one in an area that is supposed to be tail tracks. Otherwise, you would have by the time a new MSG opened in all likelihood Moynahan Station also open, and that could include an entrance on 9th Avenue and 31st Street and even an underground passageway between a new MSG that would have its northeast entrance on 30th Street and 9th Avenue and Moynahan Station, which would keep being able to not deal with the elements coming from Penn Station in tact with a new MSG. Even if neither was done on 31st and 9th, you'd still be talking about a MAXIMUM three-block walk between that entrance and the southwest entrance of Penn Station at the current MSG on 31st Street and 8th Avenue. From that location you also could have the 25th Street entrances to the 8th Avenue line also open on event days at a new MSG that would give people using the 23rd Street station on 8th Avenue a quarter-mile walk to the 25th street exit to the southeast entrance on 28th Street and 9th Avenue. You also would have people in some cases walking to/from the 7th Avenue and 28th Street entrance to the (1) train. Between those, it 28th-30th and 9th-10th Avenues would not be a bad spot for a new MSG and that could allow for a rebuild of the old Penn Station to subsequently happen (though that I would do as noted as a smaller version of the old station, keeping 2 Penn Plaza and the existing 7th Avenue entrances with the grand entrance moved to 8th Avenue). |
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| (1334003) | |
Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 17 07:48:46 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 17 01:15:57 2015. I'd be embarrassed to have my name associated with that station. |
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| (1334069) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Jan 17 18:48:28 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 16 18:57:20 2015. So why doesn't everyone just head down from the LIRR concourses when Amtrak is on Track 13 or greater ?Plenty of people do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Especially riders of NEC trains. Not so much for riders of LD trains. Because Amtrak has no presence there, nor will they in the upper concourse assuming Moynihan happens.WRONG! See above. Because 98% of passengers now load from the west and east gates on the upper concourse as they were instructed, not from the arrivals concourse, not from West End concourse, not the LIRR concourse.WRONG! 98% DO NOT board from there. For NEC trains, I would say at least 20% board from the lower level. Because passengers are not foamers like you and they will head to the established boarding area, which is Moynihan, like it or not.No they won't. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Have you spent any time at all in Penn Station? Have you ever boarded an NEC Amtrak train??? |
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| (1334070) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Jan 17 18:49:17 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 16 18:36:48 2015. I know A LOT MORE THAN YOU. It said "primary boarding area". |
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| (1334072) | |
Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Jan 17 19:16:57 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by pragmatist on Fri Jan 16 13:53:00 2015. What are they going to do with an Arena that they can't operate? |
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| (1334073) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Jan 17 19:17:57 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Jan 16 02:42:08 2015. bump |
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| (1334078) | |
Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 17 19:54:18 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 17 07:48:46 2015. Frank's not around to complain, unless his ghost haunts the secaucus corridors! |
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| (1334079) | |
Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 17 20:01:06 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Jan 15 16:45:50 2015. A big help would re-route some #4 trains on game days to run on the west side IRT line to run to Woodlawn so Yankee Stadium patrons leaving LIRR or NJT trains could hop a train at Penn without having to schlepp the shuttle to grab the #4 at GCT & Lex.Logistical nightmare I know...but theres a down side to everything I guess. |
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| (1334088) | |
Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 17 21:00:10 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 17 20:01:06 2015. This is not possible. |
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| (1334089) | |
Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 17 21:11:08 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 17 21:00:10 2015. Really? I thought there was crossovers at 149 that could make a move like that possible. |
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| (1334090) | |
Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 17 21:16:33 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 17 21:11:08 2015. You can go from E 180th to either the west side or the east side. From Woodlawn you can only go to the east side. |
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| (1334093) | |
Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by Concourse Express on Sat Jan 17 21:21:43 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 17 21:11:08 2015. The connection at 149 only exists on the lower level; Jerome trains can only access the Lex.That said, a (3) extension to Yankee Stadium (or better yet, to Kings Bridge via the Put) would better fulfill this function; you'd probably have to build a new 145 St station and "abandon" 148 St (but not the yard) to do this though... |
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| (1334110) | |
Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat Jan 17 23:12:50 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Jan 17 20:01:06 2015. Before the north terminal change on the C or CC trains, during the rush hours CC trains ran along Eighth Avenue direct to the Bronx as the local counter-part to the rush hour D-trains. Meaning there was a direct path to Yankee Stadium during the rush hours for decades. The Eighth Avenue and Grand Concourse CC local train existed for about 40 years, long before its current setup was adopted.In the 1930's, there was a regular C-train Concourse/Eighth Avenue express train, as well as the rush hour CC local trains. Being able to get to Yankee Stadium from Penn Station was never seriously a problem. Currently if one is traveling from Penn Station to Yankee Stadium, it is really simple to take the A-train to 125th Street, and stay on the same platform for the D train (as well as rush hour B-trains). On the former IRT lines, the #2, the #4 and the #5 - the setup at 149 Street-Grand Concourse is very simple. A set of curving tracks rises from the lower level #2 and #5 2-side-platform station to meet the #4 train tracks from Jerome Avenue. There are ZERO tracks (as in NONE, ZIP, NADA) from the upper level 3-island-platform station that are lowered down to meet the #2 tracks that are about to enter an underwater tunnel that crosses the Harlem River to get to Lenox Avenue. In fact on the southern-most part of downtown #4 platform one can look down the trackway and see downtown-bound #5 trains joining or being switched onto the downtown #4 tracks. Mike |
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| (1334117) | |
Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 18 00:47:18 2015, in response to Re: Madison Cylindrical Garden, posted by Concourse Express on Sat Jan 17 21:21:43 2015. After the 9 Av el was shut down S/O 155 St, there was a proposal to connect the Lenox Line to the remaining portion of what became the Polo Grounds Shuttle and I have heard that a scale model the connection was actually constructed. The problem came in with the clearances in the Anderson Av tunnel which was built to only clear elevated type 3rd rail shoes. AFAIKL, it was decided that modifying the tunnel to clear subway 3rd rail shoes would be too costly so the plan was ultimately dropped. It is unfortunate that the city opted out of the expense since such a connection would be useful now not only to provide #3 service to/from Woodlawn but for use in case of either a GO or a service disruption. Of course had it been built, the new Yankee stadium would either have to be relocated or the old one torn down and replace with the new one on the same location with the Yankees possibly having to temporarily use Citifield strong construction. |
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| (1334141) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 09:04:18 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Jan 17 18:49:17 2015. Where did it say "secondary boarding area " ? ? ?What part of "RELOCATED " do you not understand ? Since you can site no sources, you know NOTHING. |
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| (1334142) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 09:05:26 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Jan 17 18:48:28 2015. "WRONG! 98% DO NOT board from there. For NEC trains, I would say at least 20% board from the lower level."That would be NJT passengers, not Amtrak passengers. |
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| (1334173) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 18 11:22:12 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sat Jan 17 18:48:28 2015. The number is certainly lower than 20.It is also certainly higher than 2. |
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| (1334260) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 14:24:10 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 18 11:22:12 2015. And there is the occasional Amtrak cop with nothing to do but to plant himself in the arrival concourse waiting to turn you back. |
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| (1334273) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jan 18 15:20:04 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 09:05:26 2015. As far as NJT passengers boarding from the lower level, that number would be WAY higher than 20%... |
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| (1334283) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 15:43:19 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jan 18 15:20:04 2015. Yes. The regulars know all the shortcuts.The trick for Amtrak is to pose as an NJT passenger with an NJT train across the platform. That takes some skill. |
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| (1334295) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:20:50 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 15:43:19 2015. Wrong. You don't need an NJT train across the platform. |
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| (1334296) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:21:00 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sun Jan 18 15:20:04 2015. haha pwn3d |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:22:09 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 09:05:26 2015. That would be NJT passengers, not Amtrak passengers.Wrong, they are Amtrak passengers, because when the track number gets posted, all of us run down to the platform from the Exit Concourse to board the AMTRAK TRAIN. You've obviously never done it. Why are you even posting? |
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| (1334298) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:22:51 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 14:24:10 2015. I've never had that problem. NEVER. Nowhere close to "occasionally". More like "slim to never". |
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| (1334299) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:23:25 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 18 11:22:12 2015. For regular NEC/Acela/Keystone trains? I'd say it is as high as 20%. |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:24:54 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 09:04:18 2015. It didn't need to!!!!! It said the primary boarding area will be relocated and that's 100% true! The secondary boarding areas WILL NOT BE RELOCATED. G-d, you're dumb. The source is the article we're all discussing!! |
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| (1334303) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:25:49 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Jan 16 02:42:08 2015. bump |
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| (1334320) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 17:01:39 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:20:50 2015. Care to take you chances without them ?Just hope an Amtrak cop is not encountered. |
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| (1334321) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 17:02:03 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:23:25 2015. Source ? |
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| (1334322) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 17:04:35 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:24:54 2015. There is no "secondary" boarding area, stupid.Are you deaf ? Do you not hear the announcements that passengers should not board from the lower concourses ? Why are you inserting words in the article that do not exist ? |
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| (1334336) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 18 18:53:15 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 14:24:10 2015. The only times I have been turned back have been by the conductors of the train. Every time has been 2190 or 2290. |
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| (1334338) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jan 18 18:58:53 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 17:04:35 2015. I have never heard such an announcement in my life.In 2011-2012-2013 I rode Amtrak roughly one global circumference a year. NYP is by far my most commonly used station. While not so much as of late, I still take Amtrak a lot, and am in NYP for LIRR a great deal as well. I suspect if such an announcement were made with any regularity, I would hear it. |
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| (1334406) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jan 19 00:10:44 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 17:01:39 2015. Yes. I've done it every time. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO BOARD FROM ANY STAIRCASE. I've never encountered an Amtrak cop who stopped me. |
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| (1334407) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jan 19 00:11:02 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 17:02:03 2015. Um...? |
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| (1334409) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jan 19 00:11:27 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 18 18:58:53 2015. OWNED!!!!!!!! |
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| (1334410) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jan 19 00:12:59 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 18 17:04:35 2015. Are you mental? The secondary boarding areas are all the stairs that aren't in the "Amtrak Concourse". And there are no such announcements like what you are saying, at least none that I've ever heard and I've boarded Amtrak at NYP many times. Hell, I've even boarded the Lake Shore Limited from the Exit Concourse!!!!...as well as Acelas, Regionals, and Keystones. |
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| (1334413) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jan 19 00:14:24 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by R30A on Sun Jan 18 18:53:15 2015. pwn3d pwn3d pwn3d |
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| (1334432) | |
Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Jan 19 04:53:41 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 16 09:07:55 2015. Didn't realize that. Growing up in the '70s, I only remembered Gulf + Western as owners of both MSG (and Knicks/Rangers) and Roosevelt Raceway. |
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| (1334433) | |
Re: Madison Square Garden |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jan 19 05:04:09 2015, in response to Re: Madison Square Garden, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 16 09:07:55 2015. Heh. Good old "Engulf and Devour." Got eaten up by Viacom, and their asses deserved what happened to them. |
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Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 19 08:35:38 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jan 19 00:12:59 2015. Can you get it through you little head that the concept of "secondary boarding area" DOES NOT EXIST ?Yes there are such announcements that passengers are not to use any stairs on the lower level. Just because you did not hear them does not mean they do not occur. What YOU do does not make it a policy. I have also headed down the elevator on my own and taken the Lake Shore Ltd once I figured out from Red Cap chatter of where 49 was. That does not make it a "secondary boarding area". |
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| (1334449) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 19 08:36:55 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Mon Jan 19 00:10:44 2015. I have read accounts from other chatboards that people have been stopped.Again, YOUR encounter does not make it a rule. |
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| (1334578) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Jan 19 21:05:41 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Jan 18 16:25:49 2015. Apparently a lot of people don't like you!!!! |
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| (1334948) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Wed Jan 21 23:00:30 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 19 08:35:38 2015. Can you get it through you little head that the concept of "secondary boarding area" DOES NOT EXIST ?No, because you are wrong. If there was not or will not be a "secondary boarding area", then there would have been no need to define Moynihan as the "primary boarding area". It would have simply been "the Amtrak boarding area." But since they called it the "primary boarding area", then explicitly shows that there must be a "secondary boarding area." Can you get that through your thick skull? Yes there are such announcements that passengers are not to use any stairs on the lower level.No, there are not. Or at least I've never heard them in all the time I've spent at Penn Station and no one else here or that I know offline has ever heard such an announcement. So it seems you are mistaken at best and a complete liar at second best. Just because you did not hear them does not mean they do not occur.Wrong, it pretty much does. What YOU do does not make it a policy.I never made such a claim. You, however, have made completely baseless claims. I have also headed down the elevator on my own and taken the Lake Shore Ltd once I figured out from Red Cap chatter of where 49 was.WTF? Why not use the stairs? And why did you need to listen to Red Cap chatter? Why not simply look at the status monitors for the track posting? That does not make it a "secondary boarding area".LOL! So the elevators are just for show???? |
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| (1335069) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 22 19:01:10 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Wed Jan 21 23:00:30 2015. “No, because you are wrong. If there was not or will not be a "secondary boarding area", then there would have been no need to define Moynihan as the "primary boarding area". It would have simply been "the Amtrak boarding area." But since they called it the "primary boarding area", then explicitly shows that there must be a "secondary boarding area." Can you get that through your thick skull?”NO SECONDARY BOARDING AREA MENTIONED – THEN ASSUME NONE. CAN YOU GET THAT THOUGH YOU THICK SKULL? ”No, there are not. Or at least I've never heard them in all the time I've spent at Penn Station and no one else here or that I know offline has ever heard such an announcement. So it seems you are mistaken at best and a complete liar at second best.” DO NOT, REPEAT DO NOT, DO NOT, CALL BE MISTAKEN OR A LIAR YOU FUCKING FOAMING TROLL. I AM TELLING YOU MY EXPERIENCE. “Why not use the stairs? And why did you need to listen to Red Cap chatter? Why not simply look at the status monitors for the track posting?” BECAUSE I HAD LUGGAGE AND THE RED CAP WERE BUSY WITH OLD LADIES AND THAT WHAT THEY SAID TO DO. |
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| (1335070) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 22 19:02:35 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Wed Jan 21 23:00:30 2015. YOUR POSTS ARE ARE WHY 95% OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD WOULD VOTE YOU OFF IF THEY COULD. |
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| (1335112) | |
Re: Penn Station |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Thu Jan 22 21:28:41 2015, in response to Re: Penn Station, posted by Joe V on Thu Jan 22 19:02:35 2015. proff? |
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