|
|
| What color should a future CTA rail line be? (1329116) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
| (1329116) | |
What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Pink Jazz on Fri Dec 19 20:24:44 2014 I previously did a thread for MARTA in Atlanta, now I will do one for CTA in Chicago. Chicago has several colored rail lines (Red, Blue, Green, Orange, Purple, Brown, Pink, and Yellow), so if they would have to choose another color for another line, what should it be?Here are some thoughts: -Black and White Line are out due to possible racial stigmas of such designations, and it would be quite difficult to route such lines to avoid majority black or white neighborhoods. -Gray Line is also out since there is a touring company called Gray Line. -Gold Line is a possibility, but may be too similar to Yellow. -Silver Line is another possibility, as it was one of the alternate proposed names for the Pink Line. -Bronze Line is another possibility, but may be too similar to Brown. -Other possibilities include Lime Green (could be shortened to Lime Line), Sky Blue (could be shortened to Sky Line or Azure Line), Tan, Turquoise, Mauve, and Teal. I think Teal Line would be the best choice. What does anyone here think? |
|
|
| (1329126) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 20 00:25:26 2014, in response to What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Fri Dec 19 20:24:44 2014. CTA's Blue Line kind of is a turquoise/cyan shade of blue, so maybe a future CTA line could be a shade of blue more like our A, C and E lines. |
|
|
| (1329128) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 20 00:28:47 2014, in response to What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Fri Dec 19 20:24:44 2014. Indigo. Magenta. Cyan.Or just declare the new service to be a branch of an existing line. Before Pink came around, that service was a branch of the blue line. Even now, the green line has two branches. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1329132) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 20 00:58:23 2014, in response to What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Fri Dec 19 20:24:44 2014. Black and White Line are out due to possible racial stigmas of such designationsTotal nonsense. Besides, the liberals say that white is only "privileged". And now you have to kill the Red, Brown and Yellow Lines if you buy that premise at all. Any "future CTA line" will be colorless because it'll be nonexistent. WYSIWYG. |
|
|
| (1329133) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 20 01:01:00 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 20 00:28:47 2014. So the Gray Line is the proposed name for a restructured Metra Electric Division. |
|
|
| (1329158) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by TUNNELRAT on Sat Dec 20 14:57:26 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 20 01:01:00 2014. how about brimsy brown? that's the colour of a mouse,s tit! |
|
|
| (1329163) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sat Dec 20 15:35:06 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 20 00:25:26 2014. Navy? |
|
|
| (1329164) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 20 16:18:28 2014, in response to What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Fri Dec 19 20:24:44 2014. The existing colors need to change first. The Brown and Purple coincide from uch of their routes, yet I have trouble telling the two colors apart, whether Mylar or LED, until the train is close up. |
|
|
| (1329166) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 20 16:24:47 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 20 00:58:23 2014. Liberals or not, KK was not considered a politically correct designation for a local train that ran though a mostly Black area in the 1970's. |
|
|
| (1329172) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Pink Jazz on Sat Dec 20 18:00:58 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 20 16:24:47 2014. At least the Red Line isn't routed through a Native American reservation, the Brown Line isn't routed through a Hispanic area, and the Pink Line isn't routed through a gay area. In Chicago I think it would be quite difficult to have a Black or White Line that would be routed to deliberately avoid black or white neighborhoods, respectively.However, the Yellow Line serves Skokie which has a significant Asian-American population. When MARTA in Atlanta named the line serving the Asian-American communities the Yellow Line, the residents protested and thus the line was renamed the Gold Line. I wonder why there was no such reaction by the Skokie residents when CTA designated their Yellow Line. |
|
|
| (1329173) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 20 18:03:32 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Sat Dec 20 18:00:58 2014. Skokie is very Jewish. (They have a nice thrift shop across from the Dempster station).Ravenswood is Asian. |
|
|
| (1329174) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Pink Jazz on Sat Dec 20 18:34:48 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 20 18:03:32 2014. According to Wikipedia, Skokie has a 25.5% Asian population. Not a majority, but pretty significant. |
|
|
| (1329175) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 20 18:35:49 2014, in response to What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Fri Dec 19 20:24:44 2014. Yellow was fought against by the Asian community in Atlanta.Only a fool will consider Red after the Washington Football Team debacle. How about Fuchsia or Mauve? |
|
|
| (1329176) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Pink Jazz on Sat Dec 20 18:36:58 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by randyo on Sat Dec 20 15:35:06 2014. This reminds me of Power Rangers Ninja Storm, the first season of Power Rangers with a female Blue Ranger. Tori (the Blue Ranger) wore a lighter shade of blue than most male Blue Rangers, and later in the season they introduced Blake the Navy Ranger, whose shade of blue was only slightly darker than most male Blue Rangers. |
|
|
| (1329177) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Pink Jazz on Sat Dec 20 18:40:10 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 20 18:35:49 2014. Fuchsia may be difficult to distinguish from Pink. Mauve however is light enough to distinguish from Purple, as CTA's shade of purple for the Purple Line is quite dark. |
|
|
| (1329178) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 20 18:47:49 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Sat Dec 20 18:40:10 2014. Or we could assert LITERACY by using actual names or Letters. |
|
|
| (1329179) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 20 18:47:53 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Sat Dec 20 18:40:10 2014. There you go! We have a solution |
|
|
| (1329180) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 20 18:50:33 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 20 18:47:49 2014. Ah but due to multi-culturalism, that might be considered exclusionary. Be prepared for a letter from eric holder's people. Perhaps icons. We could have the "baseball" line or the "skull & Crossbones" line or the "sailboat" line. You get the idea. |
|
|
| (1329182) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Dec 20 18:57:26 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by randyo on Sat Dec 20 15:35:06 2014. Take the Navy line to Navy Pier. |
|
|
| (1329184) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sat Dec 20 19:03:10 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 20 18:50:33 2014. When letters were considered for CTA, the Ravenswood Asian population did not like it.If you look at "L" maps from around 1980, they refered what became the Blue Line as "DM" and "CM" (Congress, Douglas Branch, Milwaukee). There was also an "E" (Evanston) and "H" (Howard). |
|
|
| (1329185) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Dec 20 19:04:06 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 20 18:50:33 2014. There you go. The Red becomes the Baseball line. |
|
|
| (1329189) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 20 19:23:14 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 20 18:50:33 2014. icons are problematic for low vision folks like me. Even not very literate folks seem to be able to deal w/ letters/## in NYC and Boston as well as all of the various bus services in multiple cities. |
|
|
| (1329190) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 20 19:37:41 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 20 18:50:33 2014. San Diego does both colors and icons for its three Trolley lines. Blue has an ocean wave, Orange has a sun and Green has a palm tree. |
|
|
| (1329192) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 20 19:47:28 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Sat Dec 20 18:00:58 2014. No one's pushing for the N, Q and R lines to get a different color, either. |
|
|
| (1329193) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sat Dec 20 19:55:16 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 20 18:35:49 2014. Yellow was fought against by the Asian community in Atlanta.Only a fool will consider Red after the Washington Football Team debacle. Can't be yellow or red because there already are yellow and red lines. Next straw man, please. |
|
|
| (1329201) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sat Dec 20 21:55:31 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Sat Dec 20 18:34:48 2014. True, but probably not at the time the color was selected. |
|
|
| (1329204) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sat Dec 20 22:01:32 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by R36 #9346 on Sat Dec 20 18:57:26 2014. You noticed! |
|
|
| (1329222) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Sun Dec 21 01:39:44 2014, in response to What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Fri Dec 19 20:24:44 2014. Chicago shouldn't build another L line. They're slow, undersized, and needlessly expensive for the pittance of capacity they provide. All the CTA's expansion proposals focus on making the L network more extensive without looking to add capacity in the city or eliminate bottlenecks other than the Belmont crossover.Instead they need to pursue major upgrades to inner suburban/city commuter rail and also look toward light rail or streetcar service to provide better connectivity in the loop. Chicago Crossrail would be a great place to start. It'd provide express service to O'hare, something the Blue Line is completely unsuited to accommodating, but local service on the line would also fill in the gap between the Kennedy Expressway and Lake St L lines. Electrification of the Rock Island line would accomplish much the same with the Red and Orange lines on the South Side. And a Clark St Streetcar would be a good place to start introducing LRTs or streetcars to Chicago. I just don't see why Chicago would want to invest in the L system when it's woefully inadequate to their future needs. Leave that network alone, and attempt to ease the burden on it by improving links between the existing heavy rail lines. |
|
|
| (1329242) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Sun Dec 21 08:20:32 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by WillD on Sun Dec 21 01:39:44 2014. That's utter nonsense.The Brown and Red lines on the North Side are packed and run every 3 to 5 minutes, more than a "pittance of capacity". There is no way an upgraded UP-North line can pick up the slack, and they don't stop every half mile. You are also on a private Class I railroad, and they are not selling it, and that goes for most Metra Lines. Chicago Crossrail will be shot down by the greater desire to rip down the St Charles Airline for real estate development. Union Station connectivity to the the Loop area sucks becomes of its poor connectivity to CTA. Factor in the time it takes you to get to Union Station to take a commuter train to OHare, and you might as well have taken the Blue Line anywhere along Dearborn Street to OHare to begin with. |
|
|
| (1329329) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Pink Jazz on Sun Dec 21 17:40:06 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Nilet on Sat Dec 20 00:28:47 2014. Indigo may be too similar to Purple, and Magenta may be too similar to Pink. Both are also too long to pronounce (four syllables total including the word "Line"). Cyan however may be workable as long as it is light enough to be easily distinguished from Blue. However, I think Teal would be even more distinguishable from Blue than Cyan, and also distinguishable enough from Green. |
|
|
| (1329330) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Pink Jazz on Sun Dec 21 17:43:44 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sat Dec 20 19:47:28 2014. But nobody in NYC refers to subway lines by color. The colors were merely created for the benefit of mapmakers to group lines in Midtown Manhattan. You never here anyone call the N/Q/R the "Yellow Line". |
|
|
| (1329375) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sun Dec 21 23:53:23 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Sun Dec 21 17:43:44 2014. Actually, when colors were first introduced with Chrystie in 1967, each line had its own color. The problem was that there were so many lines, the TA ran out of colors and there were some duplications which is why the color scheme was changed to only delineate the trunk lines. |
|
|
| (1329380) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 22 00:36:27 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by randyo on Sun Dec 21 23:53:23 2014. yup. |
|
|
| (1329409) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by snarf368 on Mon Dec 22 11:29:02 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Dec 20 01:01:00 2014. Jackson Park B Train said "So the Gray Line is the proposed name for a restructured Metra Electric Division. As to other colors for new lines, when CTA can find the money for them, the color issue will be the least significant one. "Do you think the Grey Line will come to fruition? If so, will it be run by Metra rather than CTA? |
|
|
| (1329420) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Alan Follett on Mon Dec 22 13:22:15 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by snarf368 on Mon Dec 22 11:29:02 2014. The Gray Line proposal contemplates operation of the portion of Metra Electric within the city, including the South Chicago and Blue Island branches, by CTA, with greater frequencies, and integrated with CTA’s fare structure. Metra would continue to operate main-line service to points beyond Kensington, but most stations north of Kensington would be CTA-only. There would still be a couple of Metra stops in Hyde Park, and of course at the three downtown stations; possibly also at McCormick Place, at least for special events. Perhaps the weakest part of the proposal is the use of modified Metra Electric bi-levels, which seem to me to be ill-suited to transit service. There are also some problems with fare control and passenger separation at the shared stations.Do I think it will happen? Not really; this is a rail enthusiast/ community activist project, with no apparent support from the city administration, and no funding in prospect. Also, many of the Metra Electric stations have very low passenger boardings, in some cases just in double digits per day. See the Electric District station summary at Page 6: http://metrarail.com/content/dam/metra/documents/Planning/2014Count_T-B-T10.pdf ... though this might be expected to improve if the low-ridership stations were folded into the CTA system. Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
|
|
| (1329424) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Alan Follett on Mon Dec 22 13:43:33 2014, in response to What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Pink Jazz on Fri Dec 19 20:24:44 2014. The three CTA rail extensions least unlikely to be built would not require new color designations:- Extension of the Red Line from 95th to 130th. (This one actually seems to have a fair shot at coming to fruition.) - Yellow Line extension beyond Dempster, perhaps to Old Orchard. Seems to be on the back burner at present. - Orange Line extension to 79th Street. Not in my lifetime. One problem with color-names for transit lines, as systems become more complex, is that for many people there are only about eight or ten nameable shades. A lot of people, especially men, do not have a more detailed color vocabulary. Without reference to Google, I would find it difficult to recognize the difference between turquoise and aqua, or purple and violet, or ecru and taupe. Alan Follett Hercules, CA |
|
|
| (1329464) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 22 17:57:19 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Dec 22 13:22:15 2014. Any chance of copyright enfringement with the sightseeing bus company ? |
|
|
| (1329465) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 22 17:59:51 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by randyo on Sun Dec 21 23:53:23 2014. CTA seems to do the opposite. Each branch is a different color. Otherwise,everything running on the Loop L would be the same color. |
|
|
| (1329467) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 22 18:06:53 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by snarf368 on Mon Dec 22 11:29:02 2014. The major impediment I think is lack of interest at the highest political levels. As to Metra or CTA personnel, I don't much care. The critical issues are increased service levels, full CTA fare integration and the "infill" station @ 130th on the South Shore. The latter is the the sticking point--CTA has long dreamt of extending the Red Line to the same area at huge cost (which means millions in patronage/consultant contracts etc) while the existing South Shore track is very lightly used.In an era of artificial (1% greedhead driven) lack of funds to build all of the needed transit routes in the country, spending billions to replace an existing route already owned by the public is poor policy IMHO. In a more Ideal world, the Rock Island division would be electrified, and integrated w/the MED (IC) with CTA fare Blue Island north. Having 3 N-S rail routes connecting to South Side crosstown buses would make transit way more convenient. |
|
|
| (1329474) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 22 18:33:05 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Dec 22 13:22:15 2014. You are mostly right, but the abysmally low ridership between 59th and 115th mirror unemployment distribution and semi ruined neighborhoods. South Shore, where I spent some of my youth has still not fully rebuilt from the MLK assassination riots--on the way down Exchange there were boarded up storefronts, on 71st some vacant lots. I rode a So Chicago rush hour train on a weekday evening a couple years ago--train never full. A significant fraction were on all the way to a park n ride lot at South Chicago. |
|
|
| (1329476) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Pink Jazz on Mon Dec 22 19:25:34 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 22 17:57:19 2014. I assume you mean trademark infringement. Company names are trademarked, not copyrighted. |
|
|
| (1329478) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 22 19:46:13 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Dec 22 13:22:15 2014. Well, I just skimmed some of the ##. Amazing and depressing. Of course when I was a kid the So Chgo Br had 20 min headways in base day; today it is once an hour. While I have no actual counts at hand, my memory of rush hour trains @ Bryn Mawr is that the totals today are close to what one or at most two trains worth of passengers. |
|
|
| (1329499) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 23 01:36:47 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 22 17:59:51 2014. That seems to work in Chicago, but the NYCTS has too many lines. |
|
|
| (1329561) | |
Re: further thoughts on South Side transit, was What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 23 14:27:30 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Dec 22 13:22:15 2014. So I did read much of the data on the IC and RI. As I had anectdotally noted the So Chicago Branch is now mostly a park and ride from the south terminal, and indeed the total ridership is tiny all over within the city. That said, having watched some of the real time CTA videos I was struck by the huge areas of vacant lots along the Englewood and Jackson Park up to Garfield. Not only are many former commercial strips abandonned, but stations which would have made them ripe for rebuilt housing or mixed use are gone as well.As acounterpoint, google sat view still shows a platform w/ canopy @ 63rd on what I believe is the C&WI (couple blocks east of Halsted). I rode the last C&WI commuter train to Dolton half a century ago! The empty land reminds me of Richard I's bulldozing further north to make way for the welfare skyscrapers. |
|
|
| (1329573) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Tue Dec 23 15:52:15 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Joe V on Sun Dec 21 08:20:32 2014. The Brown and Red lines on the North Side are packed and run every 3 to 5 minutes, more than a "pittance of capacity".At around 15mph, which comes to a standstill when a Brown line train crosses over at Belmont. And all for a 6 car train with a a capacity somewhere around half that of a B division car. Also, Brown and Red line trains only serve two stations together, so it's really misleading to claim their headways are additive. Fine, Belmont and Fullerton get decent service, but that's it. And it's worth mentioning that the basic O'hare to McCormick Place line could be built for between 3 and 4 billion dollars. That compares very favorably with the $5+ dollar proposals that have come out of previous plans from the CTA. There is no way an upgraded UP-North line can pick up the slack, and they don't stop every half mile. Why would you want it to stop every half mile? It'd work effectively as an express service. But who said anything about the the CNW-N line? You are also on a private Class I railroad, and they are not selling it, and that goes for most Metra Lines. ... except for the lines I mentioned, the Milw-W and Milw-N lines, and the Rock Island line, all of which are fully owned by Metra and if electrified would serve the gaps left by the L network quite well. The only segment that is a private railroad would be from Franklin Park to O'hare, and then there is plenty of room to segregate passenger and freight traffic. Chicago Crossrail will be shot down by the greater desire to rip down the St Charles Airline for real estate development. You keep repeating this, yet the St Charles Air Line continues to exist. And while their current approach shows an aboveground routing, it could well be tunneled under the Chicago river to McCormick Place station for a slight increase in cost. If they really want to clear the St. Charles Air Line then it'd be a perfect opportunity to dig a cheap cut and cover trench leading to a bored tunnel under the river, and then sell the air rights over the trench. Union Station connectivity to the the Loop area sucks becomes of its poor connectivity to CTA. No, you mean east-west connectivity in the Loop and the immediate vicinity sucks, largely because the L network sucks for east-west travel regardless of whether one is starting at Union Station. That's why private ROW streetcars would be a significant improvement in improving connectivity between the lakefront and Ashland. They'd provide a capacity near that provided by CTA L trains, without requiring the billions needed to tunnel through the heart of the loop. |
|
|
| (1329577) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Dec 23 16:22:57 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by WillD on Tue Dec 23 15:52:15 2014. First, CTA is in the design and NIMBY pushback phase of building a flyover at Clark Jct.Second, CTA cars are similar in size to PATH, and only slightly smaller than IRT cars so comparisons to 75' IND cars are moot. Rush hour trains are 8 cars and IINM the rehab plans for the North Side mainline above Belmont include platforms to allow 10 car trains. In the tunnel the 4 stations north of the Loop Harrison and Roosevelt can all be lengthened--think the B'way BMT in Manhattan in the late 60s. Third, when the rehab N of Belmont is done CTA might be able to return to both the speed and TPH of the 50s--30 TPH and 5+ minutes faster from Howard to Lake (former Washington). FWIW, back then Howard to 63rd Stony Island was 55-56, the 'real time video' linked in another post claims Howard-95th in 63, not bad. All of the above said, forcing Metra to honor CTA fares within CTA service areas (Evanston to Ogilvie, Blue Island to La Salle, MED within city limits) which should be easy once Metra gets with the RFD/tap cards program, will also give riders a better choice. |
|
|
| (1329594) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 23 17:15:39 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by WillD on Tue Dec 23 15:52:15 2014. Red & Brown trains are 8 cars, and they about the size of IRT cars save 3 feet in length. They are also separate routes EACH running every 3 to 5 minutes, and EACH is crowded. Nothing "misleading" there. Go read the schedule.I mentioned the UP-North line because it is closest to the North Side "L". The Milw-North line is much further west on the West side, which has become very depopulated and crime-ridden. I don't see any point of converting that to a higher density commuter rail. The Block 37 proposal for O'hare is dead. Factor in the time it takes to take a trolley car across to Union Station, wait for an O'Hare train, which would be nothing close to rapid transit in intervals,and trip time for a passenger is no better the the Blue Line with skip-stop. They are not going to run anything like San Diego has of 288 feet long trolleys across the Loop to Union Station, whether on a street or across a back alley. There are no plans tunnel under - dream on. |
|
|
| (1329658) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Dec 24 09:37:07 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 23 17:15:39 2014. Red & Brown trains are 8 cars, and they about the size of IRT cars save 3 feet in length.In trains that are 6 to 8 cars during rush hours. They are also separate routes EACH running every 3 to 5 minutes, and EACH is crowded. Yes, crowded because they run tiny trains. Go read the schedule. Go ride the trains. Nothing quite like sitting 8 or so minutes for a Brown line train at Rush hour. I mentioned the UP-North line because it is closest to the North Side "L". That's the only L line that counts? The Milw-North line is much further west on the West side, which has become very depopulated and crime-ridden. Ah, so it's a matter of those people not deserving quality transit. And incidentally, not depopulated and in fact some of the more rapidly gentrifying areas in Chicago are south of the Kennedy. The Block 37 proposal for O'hare is dead. And that's a great thing, as you've established, the L network is too slow and small to provide an adequate express link to O'hare. which would be nothing close to rapid transit in intervals, Why wouldn't it? I don't see why it couldn't run 6 to 10 TPH throughout the day. trip time for a passenger is no better the the Blue Line with skip-stop. Except that skip-stop service ruins the trip for anyone attempting to make a local trip along the Blue Line. Not everyone is going to the loop, and they do not deserve to have their commute ruined for the sake of airport travellers. There are no plans tunnel under - dream on. We'll see. It's not like there's a plan to do anything to the L network other than a few tiny extensions. So at least someone is looking to improve fixed guideway transit in the Chicagoland area. And I know it kills you that all around the world systems have discovered that commuter rail is the superior means of moving commuters through cities, but I guess you'll just have to face reality someday. |
|
|
| (1329673) | |
Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be? |
|
|
Posted by Joe V on Wed Dec 24 11:21:34 2014, in response to Re: What color should a future CTA rail line be?, posted by WillD on Wed Dec 24 09:37:07 2014. Face it WillD, you are philosophically opposed to rail transit, and think regional rail can handle it all."Go ride the trains. Nothing quite like sitting 8 or so minutes for a Brown line train at Rush hour." I have been at Diversey during the rush plenty of times, and the Browns come packed every 3 minutes. There are also Purples every 12. If you think people should walk over to Ravenswood METRA station instead from Belmont or Addison, you're nuts. The people in Lake Front highrises are taking buses. "Yes, crowded because they run tiny trains." Deal with reality, not your perceptions. According to Wikipedia about the Brown Line, "third busiest 'L' route, with an average of 101,881 passengers boarding each weekday in 2011.[1]. OTOH, The entire UP-North line had an average of 36,400 weekday passenger trips in 2010. So the Brown Line from the Ravenswood terminus loads triple the entire METRA UP-North Line up to Kenosha. And yes Subway to Secaucus has double the capacity of Gateway. I'll trust P-B's studies over your subjective opinion. The density is not there on the West Side, and not worthy of major investment. Evanston and Ravenswood on the UP-North are heavy loaders, by Metra standards, not CTA's. The equivalent stations on the MILW-North are not by any standard. YES, the West Side has de-populated. South Of Kennedy area is not what we are talking about, and even that development is not headed south of 35th Street. " And that's a great thing, as you've established, the L network is too slow and small to provide an adequate express link to O'hare." It died because the crossing menuevers between the 2 subways would be unworkable. "And I know it kills you that all around the world systems have discovered that commuter rail is the superior means of moving commuters through cities, but I guess you'll just have to face reality someday. " Philadelphia does, but 97% of the people don't ride through, and SEPTA's OTP sucks. Now deal with Chicago's reality rather then pretend we're in Paris. As with you love affair with ARC, you are as completely clueless on what to do with people and getting them to and from Union Station or Ogilvie, except with LRT cars on fantasy rights of way across the Loop. You are also obsessed with moving commuter trains around, running them to O'hare every 5 - 10 minutes when you have not established a market, or anyway for people to get to them. Traffic jams on the freeway in and of themselves don't justify it. And you cannot justify Crossrail because of a stupidly situated Convention Center, or for that matter Gary or Hegewisch. Crossrail is an ill-conceived thru-running plan of NICTD to O'Hare, and nothing more. |
|
|
