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| FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. (1308922) | |
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| (1308922) | |
FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 00:04:41 2014 For those who keep saying it's a 60 foot R-211 subway car order, you're wrong. They already made the decision back in 2013. It bears repeating AGAIN.Source: page 43 of MTA Twenty-Year Capital Needs Assessment 2015-2034, October 2013. |
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| (1308926) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order |
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Posted by The Silence on Sat Aug 23 01:08:51 2014, in response to FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 00:04:41 2014. it is assumedkey word. There is nothing stopping them from changing their minds. |
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| (1308939) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 08:12:31 2014, in response to FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 00:04:41 2014. Or, can be used to expand C consists, thereby cascade R160's/R179's from there toward fleet growth of the L and M lines. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1308940) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 08:13:58 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order, posted by The Silence on Sat Aug 23 01:08:51 2014. Right. Can you say Orange M ? Who would have thought that 6+ years ago ? |
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| (1308941) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Andy on Sat Aug 23 08:14:42 2014, in response to FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 00:04:41 2014. 75 footers are a poor choice. Station dwells are increased because a full length train of 75 foot cars has 32 doors per side versus 40 on a 60 foot car. That's why the R143s and R160s are 60 footers. Plus,60 footers can run anywhere on the IND and BMT. 75 footers cannot operate on the J/Z, M, or L lines so equipment flexibility is not 100% as would be the case with 60 footers. |
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| (1308943) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 08:22:15 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Andy on Sat Aug 23 08:14:42 2014. 60 foot cars in 5 cars sets cannot operate anywhere, or one of the middle cars has to get cut out and made useless.Now if they ran some 9 car L trains and 6 car G trains, there you'd have something, swapping Alstom R160's around. |
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| (1308944) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Aug 23 09:04:22 2014, in response to FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 00:04:41 2014. There is an all powerful, loving God! |
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| (1308947) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sat Aug 23 09:48:45 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 08:22:15 2014. 60 foot cars in 5 cars sets cannot operate anywhere, or one of the middle cars has to get cut out and made useless. Why is this? Is OPTO limited to 4-car trains? |
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| (1308954) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Aug 23 10:14:13 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 08:12:31 2014. That was my thinking, as 75 ft. cars would be a challenge on the L and M lines. |
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| (1308957) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Andy on Sat Aug 23 10:31:47 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 08:22:15 2014. If ordering 60 footers just have some of them built as single units much like the odd 62As on the #7 Line that permit 11 car trains. Then you can have a consist of any length from 2 to 10. |
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| (1308958) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Aug 23 10:40:04 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 08:22:15 2014. 60 foot cars in 5 cars sets cannot operate anywhere, or one of the middle cars has to get cut out and made uselessHow so, they can fit on any 8 car platform and the CR can use the rear cab to operate from. Now if they ran some 9 car L trains I can see a 5 car set and a 4 car set joined to make your 9 car set, but for purpose's of conformity, the sets of all 9 cars would have to have the 5's all on the north or south to line up with the platform markers. 6 car G trains Would you accomplish this by dividing 4 car sets in half, to be coupled to other 4 car sets, or order A+A sets? Myself, I would have gone with R-110B type 67 ft. cars with all of the bells and whistles, in the 3 car, 2 car, and single car setups, for diversity. |
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| (1308961) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Aug 23 10:55:37 2014, in response to FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 00:04:41 2014. If the decision has already been made to purchase 75 foot cars, how do you reconcile that with the statement that they are seriously considering articulated cars? They never said it was only being considered for the A division and the decision for the B division has already been made. |
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| (1308963) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 23 11:04:22 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Andy on Sat Aug 23 08:14:42 2014. Do you realize the cost when you have to replace every 8 cars with 10? |
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| (1308965) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 23 11:08:11 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by K. Trout on Sat Aug 23 09:48:45 2014. OPTO is limited to a 300' train. |
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| (1308971) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 11:49:38 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Aug 23 10:55:37 2014. They are not doing articulated or open gangways cars in the R-211 order. More likely during the R-62/R-62A and R-68/R68A replacement timeframe if they are consider it. |
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| (1308972) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 12:04:08 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Andy on Sat Aug 23 08:14:42 2014. There's already enough of 60 footers that MTA has replaced. The J, M, L, and Z lines will stay 60 footers. There's no need to move the fleet around since the R160 cars are performing very well. |
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| (1308973) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 12:06:02 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Avid Reader on Sat Aug 23 10:14:13 2014. There's no need to since those lines already have the new fleet. |
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| (1308977) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 13:09:07 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 12:06:02 2014. We know that, but it may not be sufficient in size in a few years. |
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| (1308978) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 13:12:00 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Avid Reader on Sat Aug 23 10:40:04 2014. The TA does not run consists with closed cars. You would also have a problem with a 600's long train where there are stub tracks intended for 8 car trains, like Metro Ave.6 car G train would come from making 4 and 6 cars sets from the current 5 cars sets. |
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| (1308987) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 13:54:46 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 13:09:07 2014. Those cars will stay at East New York yard FOREVER. |
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| (1308989) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 14:06:10 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 13:54:46 2014. I know that too. But other cars may need to join them. |
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| (1308995) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by The Silence on Sat Aug 23 15:02:29 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 13:12:00 2014. Your statement still doesn't make a lot of sense.A 5 car R160 unit can operate across the entire B division except for the Franklin shuttle. As a matter of fact, borrowing 5 car sets for the M short turn makes a fair deal of sense. OPTO is limited by actual footage, not car count. a 300 foot unit would still platform wonderfully and be within the rules. And would give M riders more capacity. Not much different from when the M barrowed 143 sets for the weekends. |
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| (1309003) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by d to e to jamaica on Sat Aug 23 15:53:09 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by The Silence on Sat Aug 23 15:02:29 2014. opto is limited to 300 feet, so it's either 5 60 footers or 4 75 footers |
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| (1309007) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 16:12:39 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by The Silence on Sat Aug 23 15:02:29 2014. No I am afraid your propsoal is the one that does not make sense.What is the M going to do with a 5 car train during rush hours, and make short turns where ? We don't need to send any more trains to Chambers Street. |
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| (1309012) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order |
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Posted by gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 16:29:18 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order, posted by The Silence on Sat Aug 23 01:08:51 2014. Of course, there's nothing wrong when they are continue to operating a mixed fleet. |
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| (1309017) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Aug 23 17:36:25 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Andy on Sat Aug 23 10:31:47 2014. The car needs to be equipped with some form of odometer for CBTC operation. That could take the form of the R143's rail imaging system. But after the failure of that system today it would require an unbraked idler axle on one of the trucks. Losing power and braking on one axle of 20 in a five car set is not going to be a problem, but losing 25% of the traction in a car is an untenable proposition. There's also a lot to be said for sharing traction power systems, compressors, and other components amongst a five car set rather than maintaining five of each item. |
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| (1309018) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Aug 23 17:40:27 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Andy on Sat Aug 23 08:14:42 2014. When they were contemplating 75' R179s there were plans afoot to order those cars with five doors per side and longitudinal seating before someone decided they needed to "hurry" the R179 and make them R160 clones. |
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| (1309022) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 18:49:58 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by WillD on Sat Aug 23 17:40:27 2014. With the 480' C trains from failure of Congestion Pricing, then retaining some R42's with the 2010 cuts of the V takeover by ENY, they did what they had to do. |
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| (1309023) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order |
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Posted by The silence on Sat Aug 23 18:53:48 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order, posted by gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 16:29:18 2014. Not unless they ever decide to install platform doors and do not want a more complicated, expensive system. |
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| (1309038) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Aug 23 22:38:17 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 18:49:58 2014. If the transition from the transverse seating of the existing 75' cars to a full longitudinal seating arrangement allows an additional 15 passengers per car then a 6 car set of 75' cars could hold as many passengers as an 8 car set of 60' cars. |
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| (1309041) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Aug 23 23:24:35 2014, in response to FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 00:04:41 2014. There were various people here who proclaimed MTA would never buy any more 75 foot cars. |
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| (1309044) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Aug 23 23:27:46 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 23 11:04:22 2014. The change in cost is not that great. You'd end up swapping 2 sets of 4 cars, each set sharing components, with 2 sets of 5 cars, each set sharing components. |
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| (1309048) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 23 23:54:21 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by italianstallion on Sat Aug 23 23:24:35 2014. Some of them could have been high placed MTA officials.....who are no longer here. |
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| (1309059) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 24 06:40:55 2014, in response to FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 00:04:41 2014. This to me is a mistake. If they need to go with longer cars, I would go with 67-foot cars (length of the old BMT Standards) that can also be used if needed in the Eastern Division. That would allow for greater flexibility in car usage, especially if later on the SAS for instance is connected to the Nassau Street Line after all. |
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| (1309060) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 24 06:43:29 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Andy on Sat Aug 23 08:14:42 2014. Which is exactly why I would have gone with 67-foot cars. That would have had the longer length yet be able to be used in the Eastern Division if needed (with the idea to eventually lengthen all stations to 670 feet to allow for 10 67-foot cars). |
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| (1309061) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 24 06:48:58 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order, posted by Joe V on Sat Aug 23 08:13:58 2014. I did and was one of the first to mention it. |
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| (1309062) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 24 06:52:05 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order, posted by The silence on Sat Aug 23 18:53:48 2014. First, you would have to make every platform in the system uniform before you can even think of that.Second, you have to have every car in the system be uniform to do it. Another reason why I would do 67-foot cars. Doing that would be part of a super long-term plan to eventually have ALL stations (in the B division) by 670 feet in length (10 67-foot car trains), which would allow for platform doors. |
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| (1309065) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 24 06:54:08 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by WillD on Sat Aug 23 22:38:17 2014. I think some transit systems overstate the capacity advantages of bowling alley seating. People stick their feet out into the aisle takes up room. |
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| (1309066) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 24 06:56:03 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 24 06:43:29 2014. 7 car trains of 67' cars for the East would mean both 3 and 4 car sets, and still not a universal car. 6 car trains would have meant a severe reduction in capacity or tighter headways requiring more crews. |
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| (1309074) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 24 09:52:53 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by 3-9 on Sat Aug 23 23:27:46 2014. 4 more trucks.4 additional sets of doors 20% more internal EVERYTHING. These things add up to more $$$. And the state will be short on $$$ if Cuomo and the legislature continue on this pace. |
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| (1309076) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 24 10:26:59 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by 3-9 on Sat Aug 23 23:27:46 2014. The additional cost IS great just from the standpoint of building all these additional car bodies and trucks (+their lifetime maintenance). |
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| (1309088) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 24 13:03:36 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 24 09:52:53 2014. Not necessarily. The doors and trucks, yeah, but not 20% more internal everything because in the end, you still end up with a 600' train. Even the air conditioning units don't have to be as powerful on a 10 car train although there are more of them. |
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| (1309089) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 24 13:05:58 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 24 10:26:59 2014. I understand about the 4 trucks and a few other additions, but you're still ending up with 600' of car body, seats, lights, etc., whether it's 8x75' or 10x60'. |
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| (1309091) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 24 13:14:40 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 24 13:05:58 2014. There are economies of scale, though I'm not sure how big. A motor with 25% more power doesn't cost 25% more. Couplers with 25% more strength don't cost 25% more. Etc. |
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| (1309103) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Sun Aug 24 14:34:34 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order, posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Aug 24 06:52:05 2014. You would also have to expand yard space.It will never happen! |
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| (1309114) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 24 15:29:15 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by 3-9 on Sun Aug 24 13:05:58 2014. We're going around in circles here. A 600' train made up of 8 cars is cheaper to build and maintain than a 600' train made up of 10 cars.That's a lot of money saved on a 750 some odd car order........and if it were 60' cars you would need a lot more to replace the R46 fleet. It was announced the cars will be 75' so this discussion is moot. |
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| (1309125) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order |
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Posted by blue8irt on Sun Aug 24 16:57:42 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order, posted by The Silence on Sat Aug 23 01:08:51 2014. Does it really matter since that size is already in use? Just asking, I'm not a wise-ass. Er, well. not always. :) |
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| (1309144) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Neil Feldman on Sun Aug 24 19:22:25 2014, in response to FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by Gold_12th on Sat Aug 23 00:04:41 2014. Glad they are going with 75 footers once again! |
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| (1309150) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Aug 24 19:43:14 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is suppsoed to be a 75 foot car order, posted by Gold_12th on Sun Aug 24 14:34:34 2014. Then what to do with stub tracks, like Metro Ave.How long are the Broad Street stub tracks ? What do you do with Chambers Street ? |
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| (1309166) | |
Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 24 21:38:09 2014, in response to Re: FYI, R-211 order... it is a 75 foot car order. No more 60 foot car orders, for now., posted by italianstallion on Sat Aug 23 23:24:35 2014. There were various people here who proclaimed MTA would never buy any more 75 foot cars.LRG5784 |
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