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| Re: 1939 World's Fair spur (1286289) | |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Apr 18 21:50:06 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:56:21 2014. sure there was..but NOT in the MASTER BUILDER'S WORLD.. |
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| (1286462) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Fri Apr 18 22:01:23 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 20:10:22 2014. "wonder what WP-SS did in 64/65...."Wonder no more. 1964 11,524,700 1965 9,375,747 Source: Transit Record, February 1966 |
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| (1286464) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 22:09:30 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Edwards! on Fri Apr 18 21:50:06 2014. The evil Robert Moses is once again taken to task! Good! |
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| (1286465) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Apr 18 22:09:44 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by jailhousedoc on Fri Apr 18 08:41:57 2014. Address it?have you kept up with the latest MTA line of goods? they plan on doing NOTHING,when it comes to new routes in the "outer boros"...except put in place a number of SBS bus lines. the claim is subway building is WAY too expensive,using the SAS as an example of cost annalist. using the SAS is a terrible example,considering the techniques used to build this short stretch,and the cost over runs plus chronic delays associated with this project. |
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| (1286467) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 22:15:34 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 18 18:43:52 2014. That is only three stations. |
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| (1286468) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 22:24:10 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by X-Astorian on Fri Apr 18 22:01:23 2014. so a lot of folks did take the subway to the 64/65 WF - plus the Mets drew like 1.5 million to Shea its opening year. Lot of folks riding the Flushing those years!Would be interesting to see the passenger counts for the LIRR for both fairs - the special service they had in 39/40 was apparently pretty popular, |
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| (1286470) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Apr 18 23:59:12 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:56:21 2014. Not with the political "influence" of Robert Moses. |
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| (1286496) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Randyo on Sat Apr 19 03:56:45 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 21:27:02 2014. The documentation I have seen indicates Ave M. At approximately the same location on Nostrand Av, the proposed extension to Sheepshead Bay was also supposed to become elevated. |
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| (1286497) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Randyo on Sat Apr 19 03:58:46 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 18 20:44:01 2014. Actually, in the late 1940s, when some R-1s were transferred to the BMT for 4 Av Lcl service those cars received wipers for use on the Astoria El. |
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| (1286498) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Randyo on Sat Apr 19 04:00:25 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 18 20:44:01 2014. Actually, in the late 1940s, when some R-1s were transferred to the BMT for 4 Av Lcl service those cars received wipers for use on the Astoria El. |
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| (1286507) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Joe on Sat Apr 19 07:12:24 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by X-Astorian on Fri Apr 18 22:01:23 2014. Many thanks, X-Astorian for those figures. I would never have guessed that the 1964-65 figures were so much higher than the pre-war fares. In 1940, I was underage, so I didn't count, nor do I recall the car numbers, but we almost certainly rode the Interborough from Marble Hill.--- In 64-65, teachers could buy group entrance tickets to the fair ($6.25 for 25 students, if memory is correct), so my Friday-after-school outings could have boosted the token count when we met at 10 p.m. for the return trip to Staten Island. --- Thanks for finding the figures. Joe |
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| (1286515) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Apr 19 09:19:08 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Joe on Fri Apr 18 17:24:56 2014. On opening day 28,629 passed through the IND turnstiles. IRT-BMT was about 40,000. |
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| (1286523) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Apr 19 10:38:18 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Apr 18 22:24:10 2014. I can still remember the tv commercial shot from the inside of an R-36 with the camera panning thru those big picture windows showing residential Queens, promoting subway service...Cue the singers... Follow the fun to the Worlds Fair... ...On the subway special that takes you there; Theres' a good time feeling in the air...etc.etc. Or something like that. |
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| (1286526) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Sat Apr 19 10:59:55 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Joe on Sat Apr 19 07:12:24 2014. You're very welcome Joe. It's interesting that the Transit Record gave a proportion of ridership on the Queensboro Line (Astoria and Flushing Branches) to the BMT and the Second Ave. El (1940 only). This allocation was for the line and not by station. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Apr 19 12:01:18 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by X-Astorian on Fri Apr 18 22:01:23 2014. Can I get the Transit Record for various years online? |
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| (1286538) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Apr 19 12:40:29 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Apr 19 10:38:18 2014. You mean this one? Cute commercial! |
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| (1286539) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Sat Apr 19 12:57:20 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Apr 19 12:01:18 2014. "Can I get the Transit Record for various years online?"I've never found them but there are probably those on this board that are more knowledgeable about that. I have several mostly from the 60s and 70s but one as late as 1981 and copies of a couple from the 40s. If there is some specific year you're looking for, I wouldn't mind scanning a few pages. |
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| (1286546) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Apr 19 14:45:28 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by X-Astorian on Sat Apr 19 12:57:20 2014. I am interested in the last 365 day year of ridership on the 2nd, 3rd, 6th, and 9th Ave els. That would have been 1937, since 6th Ave el closed on Dec 4th, 1938. And the Fulton Street el in 1935 and 1939, its last full year. Curious to see how much the IND subway cut into its ridership. If you have those years, that is. |
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| (1286552) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sat Apr 19 15:41:24 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Apr 19 14:45:28 2014. As the 6th Ave closed in December, the 1938 numbers would serve just about as well - 3 weeks won't make that much of a difference.I'd like to see the numbers of the 9th Ave comparing 1931/32/33 - that's the one line that would have taken a big hit from the 8th Ave IND. The 6th Ave line maybe not as much? |
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| (1286554) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Sat Apr 19 16:28:25 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sat Apr 19 15:41:24 2014. Elkeeper and Lou,I'm not sure whether the IRT published these kind of stats. To my knowledge the Transit Record, covering city-run rapid transit and surface lines, began with the New York City Transit System. |
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| (1286563) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Apr 19 19:22:57 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. Years ago at a NY ERA Div. meeting I asked around if anyone knew of movies taken of the IND Worlds Fair Spur. I was told that a rail fan, named Orville White (?last name) had taken movies of it.Has anyone else heard of other sources for movies of the branch? There were probably home movies taken by fair goers that sat (or are still sitting) someone's attic if they haven't already been thrown out. Several years ago, I was in a bookstore (Borders or B&N?) and came across a great photo of the IND station itself, in a book that collected a pre-war photographer's view on NYC. It was taken on the right of way (!) from what looks like the south pocket track looking towards the terminal at an angle - you can just see the beginning of the platform on the left and the catwalk on the right. I printed out the title and the ISBN - have it somewhere, "in my stuff" - wanted to get it from the library and photocopy the picture, but running around life stuff intervened. It was a two page spread, it is still on a list of things to do. |
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| (1286568) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Apr 19 20:58:44 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by 3-9 on Sat Apr 19 12:40:29 2014. Bingo...Thats it.. Thanks for posting!! |
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| (1286571) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by R46 5636 on Sat Apr 19 21:42:46 2014, in response to 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Dave on Thu Apr 17 20:45:39 2014. Can't see the photo. |
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| (1286573) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sat Apr 19 22:04:08 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 21:28:44 2014. that's animal cruelty! |
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| (1286579) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sat Apr 19 22:30:57 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by R46 5636 on Sat Apr 19 21:42:46 2014. Bandwith issues probably |
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| (1286584) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Asgard on Sat Apr 19 22:48:01 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Apr 18 09:28:52 2014. The first incarnation of the Fifth Avenue el in Brooklyn lasted only two days, in November 1888. |
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| (1286586) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Asgard on Sat Apr 19 22:53:24 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by X-Astorian on Fri Apr 18 19:58:29 2014. I seem to recall reading somewhere, but I can't find it now, that the Independent service cost 10 cents; and that they did more business *from* the Fair than to it. People would go via the I.R.T. or B.-M.T. for 5 cents, but being tired at night, and with the Independent station closer to the evening attractions, they'd pay the extra five cents to go home. |
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| (1286603) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Apr 20 00:19:53 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Asgard on Sat Apr 19 22:53:24 2014. I thought I read in "Subway To The World's Fair", that the turnstiles at the IND World's Fair station, were configured to take fares when patrons left the IND as well as entered. So you would pay your second nickel, upon leaving the subway and entering the fair. Wasn't that the same arrangement as originally set up on the Rockaway line, where you inserted a second token in the turnstile when you left? This would mean, when people left the fair at night, they'd be paying the full ten cents. So, were the turnstile slots on the entering side of the fair station configured to take dimes and nickels, or did patrons leaving the fair, just put in two nickels instead to activate the turnstile? The evening attractions, the Amusement area, stayed open later than the rest of the fair, so that would have been a big attraction for taking the IND, not having to walk, as you said, back through the length of the fair grounds to get the I.R.T.-B.M.T. --------------------------------------------------------- I've often thought that the ride back, late at night from the '39 fair on the IND, is another piece of modern NYC history that has vanished - a hot and maybe humid evening getting on towards midnight. A train of R9's, door wide open waits at the platform, the overhead fans are providing the only relief from the heat. Everyone sitting in the cars is tired, but maybe a little overtired and in still in a partying mood, (like when people go out to dinner very late at night) bantering back and forth etc. Couples out on dates, tired and draped over each other (like one of those John Sloan drawings of late night el car interiors with tired passengers). The motorman sounds the buzzer and the train starts, you can hear motors' hum going up in pitch, but somewhat quieter since it's outdoors. And if you look out the window on the left it's pitch dark - no lights in Mt. Hebron cemetery, and looking out of the windows on the right, you can just make out the lake south of the amusement area and the lights of Grand Central. And continuing south, they'd pass, but pay no attention at all (although people on this board would) to the IND yard, with trains layed up, and then entering, (with the passengers not even being aware of) the expansive yard leads underground, before ramping up to 71st & Continental Ave. station. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Apr 20 01:09:06 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 22:09:30 2014. He did show SOME affection for some..by building parks,housing for the disadvantage...all with a drawback,as he only did THAT to push his OTHER programs through. |
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| (1286650) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 20 15:46:41 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 22:09:30 2014. Would we really be better off without him? I don't think so. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 20 15:46:41 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 22:09:30 2014. Would we really be better off without him? I don't think so. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Apr 20 15:46:41 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 22:09:30 2014. Would we really be better off without him? I don't think so. |
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| (1286654) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Apr 20 15:51:19 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sat Apr 19 20:58:44 2014. If you're a World's Fair fan, don't forget that they're opening the New York Pavilion to the public this Tuesday, 11 AM-2 PM. No reservations required and it's free! They provide the necessary hard hats. |
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| (1286665) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 20 17:07:06 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by 3-9 on Sun Apr 20 15:51:19 2014. Thanks for the heads up. There was a guy by the name of David Oats who I went to high school with. Long story short, among many things concerning Flushing Meadow Park, he did a lot to try & save & maintain the Worlds Fair structures left up after the park closed. He also fought for the dismantiling of the USA Pavillion, which was pretty much in a state of ruins when the wrecking ball finally showed up.He would have loved to be here for the anniversary. He passed away in 2008, way too young at 58. Interesting story about him in last Fridays Daily News. Mini Bio available on Google. |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sun Apr 20 18:56:38 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by 3-9 on Sun Apr 20 15:51:19 2014. Thanks for letting us know!I have many fond memories of being in the NY Pavilion with my family during the fair. Also played an afternoon concert there with my junior high band. Didn't they light up the colored panels at the top during the evening? Like others we all enjoyed taking those pod elevators up to the observation towers. My Dad took a lot of slides of the fair. He made a point of taking photos looking down at the fair from each side of the observation towers (North, south, east & west). He wanted to go back a couple of years after the fair and take photos from the same position, but sadly, they never refurbished and reopened the pavilion. What they let happen to the fabulous NY state map on the pavilion's floor, is an absolute crime..... My Dad's fair slides are currently in hose old fashioned Kodak long trays. A future project - I want to transfer them to the circular trays (hopefully they'll be selling those for awhile yet). I certainly want to look at them again and someday will donate them to the Queens Museum. |
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| (1286693) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Apr 20 20:14:28 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Express Rider on Sun Apr 20 18:56:38 2014. Why not have the slides digitized? |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Ray Jules on Sun Apr 20 20:20:53 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by italianstallion on Sun Apr 20 20:14:28 2014. I agree. Nothing would be better at ensuring their permanence. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 20 20:47:39 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Randyo on Sat Apr 19 04:00:25 2014. Must have been pretty hairy in bad weather, between Carroll St and 7th Ave, when the Prospect Park IND subway opened to Church Ave! |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 20 21:37:39 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 20 20:47:39 2014. Just imagine, your commin out of Carroll St with a set or R's with your controller "wrapped around" doin 30-35mph(as a guess, no speedometers then) & you hit the open air & its pitch black with a thunderstorm hurling big toe sized raindrops at your windshield.W/O wipers & sealed beam headlights, you cant see a foot in front of you. Basically its called flying blind. Any last minute track workers who were late to clean up are on their own. No reflectorized vests or helmets .If Something aint right, you have to get to a station & find a pay phone (no radios). You talk to an old school motorman & the'll tell you that they didn't need any of that shit. Speedometers, wipers?? Nah. We're not on a highway. The fundemental job requirement was to just know what you were doing & be know the line your working...& most of them did. 'Nuff said! But that was then... |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Apr 20 22:08:24 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 20 21:37:39 2014. Coming out of the hole into Prospect southbound could be like that too. We HAD wipers, but lol ... they were a couple of inches away from the glass and only got in the way. :)So you ran slow, took your time and honked at anything that looked out of place. We used ... "the force" ... heh. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 21 07:11:14 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by 3-9 on Sun Apr 20 15:51:19 2014. Thanks!!! I'll be in the area, so I may try to get over there... |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 21 16:42:59 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 20 21:37:39 2014. No pay phones. In the subway, there was a phone by the emergency alarm box indicated by a blue light and on the structure, you went to the RR clerk's booth to phone the TMO and request power off if necessary. |
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| (1286861) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Apr 21 23:33:02 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Apr 20 17:07:06 2014. I read the Daily News article. Sounded like an interesting character, I'm glad he fought to maintain the remains of the World's Fair (as much as could be saved, anyway). |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 23 07:16:36 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 17:58:16 2014. I'm amazed it's gotten as far as it has. Back in 2007, I fully expected it to fail- again. But even with all the delays (I'm only referring to the current project), it now seems almost certain to open in the next few years.As for the rest of it- and it is definitely needed- I'm not holding my breath. |
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| (1287120) | |
Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 23 15:42:08 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Apr 18 22:15:34 2014. But that's what the doc was presumably referring to, since that's the only section that anyone can reasonably believe is currently on track to be built. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 23 22:24:18 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Apr 18 21:28:44 2014. No dog is that bad. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 25 08:57:22 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 23 15:42:08 2014. Bump. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 26 16:32:14 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Fri Apr 18 20:20:21 2014. Bad. Very bad. |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 26 16:37:32 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Randyo on Mon Apr 21 16:42:59 2014. Aren't those phones still there? |
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Re: 1939 World's Fair spur |
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Posted by Randyo on Sat Apr 26 16:46:02 2014, in response to Re: 1939 World's Fair spur, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Apr 26 16:37:32 2014. Yes. |
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