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(1261911)

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Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Dec 2 23:04:56 2013, in response to Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Dec 1 12:45:21 2013.

Add two others to the list: 6345 and 6440.

wayne


(1261916)

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Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side

Posted by kew gardens teleport on Mon Dec 2 23:31:45 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Dec 2 10:46:11 2013.

I think all hasmat and pax trains should have track brakes activated hydraulically for emergency use only.

Why not electromagnetic brakes? :-)

(1261918)

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Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Dec 2 23:45:15 2013, in response to Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Dec 2 23:04:56 2013.

Add two others to the list: 6345 and 6440.

Wayne:Here's the consist so far

1st) 6222
2nd) 6288

7th) 6156
8th) 225

6188, 6440, 6445 and one other which may be a Comet. I don't know the order.

Larry, RedbirdR33



(1261922)

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Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 2 23:58:11 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by kew gardens teleport on Mon Dec 2 23:31:45 2013.

I kinda prefer Ferrovie dello Stato's solution myself ...



(1261924)

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Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Dec 3 00:13:58 2013, in response to Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Dec 2 23:45:15 2013.

One of the blue trimmed cars (did not get the number) was shown to have some considerable batter damage all along one side, with all windows out. No body penetration or deformation, but abrasion the entire length of the car, with a gash just above the bottom of the carbody. I thought I saw one of the cars with a 63xx number; not sure as the clip went by in the blink of an eye. 6440 I am sure of.

wayne


(1261925)

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Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Dec 3 00:16:03 2013, in response to Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Dec 2 20:55:20 2013.

.or if the railroad was wired with cantenary. Can you imagine if one of those shoreliners came at a cantenary support pole sideways at 70+MPH ? The car might have been sliced in half with the resultant monumental carnage.

Like Pennsy coach 1860 in the Congressional wreck of 1943 in Phila.

wayne



(1261935)

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Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side

Posted by Bill West on Tue Dec 3 01:22:32 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 2 23:58:11 2013.

Oh no, not one of those!! ....I have an interest in ships too, this is a lousy safety device. I've seen them jammed in the harbour bottom and the ship takes two hours to wiggle it out. Or I've read of four hours to cut the chain with a flaky torch. Then there is the joy of being on the bridge going through a narrow spot on a freighter and the rust cloud up forward suggests the anchor winch has forgotten its grip and the anchor is suddenly going the opposite direction in a hurry. The captain who relayed that story greatly appreciated his Polish engineers who were able to bring the ship to a stop before his bow got ripped out. British Petroleum even started tying off their anchor chains with bailing wire because losing the anchor and the chain cost less than repairing the rip in the chain locker bulkhead from a shackled chain being torn out.

In the hands of landlubbers this is a horrible solution, go back to open floorboards and thick soles on the engineer's shoes. Please!

Bill

(1261937)

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(NTSB press conference 2) Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Gold_12th on Tue Dec 3 01:52:33 2013, in response to NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Dec 2 16:34:24 2013.



(1261938)

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(2 MTA videos on the recovery) Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Gold_12th on Tue Dec 3 01:54:57 2013, in response to Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Dec 1 07:55:15 2013.





(1261940)

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Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 3 02:09:50 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by Bill West on Tue Dec 3 01:22:32 2013.

Aw c'mon Unca Bill ... you of all people should be grateful that it was ME who took that plunge here instead of someone who might actually have considered that a reasonable solution. Now pipe me off this car, gotta change ends. :)

(1261946)

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Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side

Posted by Bill West on Tue Dec 3 02:57:06 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 3 02:09:50 2013.

Now wouldn't seaborne traditions like piping off slow up a turnaround! Just need to add that tot of rum each day then we'll keep schedule.

Bill

(1261947)

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Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 3 03:06:30 2013, in response to Re: PHOTO - Genny on its side, posted by Bill West on Tue Dec 3 02:57:06 2013.

Heh. Sailor? Bring me my BROWN pants! :)

(1261951)

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Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Dec 3 05:34:26 2013, in response to Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Dec 3 00:13:58 2013.

Wayne: Here's the consist so far correcting my typo.

1) 6222
2) 6288
3) 6345
4) 6440
5) 6188
6) coach
7) 6156
8) 225

The number six car has no center door and I did not see any name on the side. If that's correct its either a Comet 2A or 2B that was re-patrioted from New Jersey.

Larry, RedbirdR33

(1261956)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Charles G on Tue Dec 3 06:59:38 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Dec 2 18:08:35 2013.

That's not something to celebrate.

If it were to come out that he was under the influence while on the job -- then, sure, rip him to shreds and charge him as a criminal.

If he's just a guy who screwed up by being 12 MPH over MAS and also losing track of where he was then I'd go a bit easy on the crucifixion.

(1261957)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Dec 3 07:12:12 2013, in response to NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Dec 2 16:34:24 2013.

How smart is it to have a posted speed limit of 70 MPH followed by 30 MPH? There should be a gradual reduction in posted speed, especially in advance of a curve. 70, 55, 40, 30 MPH.

(1261958)

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Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 3 07:17:11 2013, in response to NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Dec 2 16:34:24 2013.

http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20131203/spuyten-duyvil/metro-north-train-driver-dozed-off-before-crash-sources-say

This sounds like the most logical explanation.

(1261959)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Tony Clifton on Tue Dec 3 07:20:03 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Dec 3 07:12:12 2013.

what's the problem?

(1261960)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 07:37:19 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Dec 3 07:12:12 2013.

There seems to be no enforcement of speed limits on MN that differs from the Garden State Pkwy. Posted speeds would mean nothing. Unlike the LIRR, there seems to be no ASC except to prevent collisions or taking diverging routes.

What happens when Amtrak approaches this area for the Empire Line - Are they forced to slow down ?.

(1261964)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 3 07:55:00 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 07:37:19 2013.

When AMTK is on MNCR tracks, they are under MNCR rules. I doubt that their equipment will read the road any differently.

ROAR

(1261967)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 3 08:25:59 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Charles G on Tue Dec 3 06:59:38 2013.

It's hard to imagine him losing track of where he was. He didn't forget to stop for all his scheduled stations. Also, if he was deliberately speeding to have more time to go Christmas shopping or soemthing, he would probably have been paying extra close attention.

I just don't see any obvious explanation other than falling asleep.


(1261968)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 3 08:27:49 2013, in response to Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 3 07:17:11 2013.

Definitely.


(1261969)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 3 08:29:41 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Dec 3 07:12:12 2013.

Why?

On a highway with speed limit 70, an exit ramp may say Exit Speed 30. Everyone knows you can't wait until the last second to slow down.

It would be different if there were automatic equipemnt that forced a gradual slowdown if the engineer failed to do it, but there isn't, at the moment.



(1261971)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:34:02 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 3 08:29:41 2013.

Your last sentence describes what LIRR has an MN does not.

(1261972)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:35:13 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 3 07:55:00 2013.

Difference being switching off onto the Empire Line may be regarded as a diverging route, therefore system enforces speed limit. That's why I asked the question.

(1261973)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Dec 3 08:36:10 2013, in response to Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 3 07:17:11 2013.

I figured that as soon as I heard about the accident. As tragic as it was I honestly don't think it warrants any criminal charges and feel bad for him. It's an accident. Unfortunately it's going to be handled by the Bronx DA and I feel he's going to go for blood because of all the publicity, just like that bus driver last year.

(1261976)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Dec 3 08:44:08 2013, in response to Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 3 07:17:11 2013.

That would explain the 82 mph in the 70 zone, the idle throttle and delay in hitting the brakes?

(1261977)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 08:44:33 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Dec 3 08:36:10 2013.

As tragic as it was I honestly don't think it warrants any criminal charges

Sentries that fall asleep at their post are subject to summary execution. No criminal charges for falling asleep at the throttle? You're further left than the POTUS.

(1261978)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Dec 3 08:47:56 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 08:44:33 2013.

DILLIGAF

(1261981)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Dec 3 08:53:06 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Joe V on Mon Dec 2 19:19:54 2013.

That still may not have been enough if he was in deep sleep or if it was intentional. Remember the train crash of Amagasaki some years back. That line had a similar system without automatic train control (Automatic Train Protection in the US, or Positive Train Control, handling not just BIEs but speed control.

Oh now they are saying on NY1 that he fell asleep, heard the warning and applied the BIE, but it was too late. We might see full ATP/PTC in the region sooner than the mandate.

(1261982)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 08:53:18 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Dec 3 08:47:56 2013.

YYCD, since you posted about it and replied to my criticism. Never mind showing that you can't take criticism.

(1261983)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:53:53 2013, in response to Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 3 07:17:11 2013.

Oh well. I was hoping it was mechanical failure.

(1261984)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 08:55:05 2013, in response to Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Dec 3 07:17:11 2013.

Metro-North engineer pay so bad that the hogger can't buy coffee? If I had to do that job, I'd rather put up with some jitters and stay awake than risk having something like that happen.

(1261985)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:55:11 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 08:44:33 2013.

The conversations here have been civil until you reared your ugly head.
Go back and watch your mentors on FOX and leave us alone.

(1261986)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:55:55 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Dec 3 08:44:08 2013.

Dead man throttle not effective ?

(1261987)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 08:58:58 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:53:53 2013.

Were you now? That'd sure be a comfort to Messrs. Ahn, Ferrarri and Lowell and Ms. Smith.

(1261988)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:59:22 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Dec 3 08:53:06 2013.

On the LIRR, you got 3 seconds to respond, or the the train dumps. (Obviously it can happen on a Greenport or Montauk train out east).
Just as well they had to get off the Lower Montauk.
If that were so here, that would have happened way back as you got past 70MPH.

(1261989)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 09:00:45 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:55:11 2013.

Nothing uncivil about what I said. Unless you regard mentioning the POTUS itself as an insult? BTW, I don't give Ailes any ratings, so stop stereotyping.

(1261990)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 09:01:33 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:55:55 2013.

There's a difference between a sleeping man and a dead man.

(1261991)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 09:01:49 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 09:00:45 2013.

Obama has NOTHING to do with this.
You are here to pick a fight. Turn off your computer and watch TV.

(1261992)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 09:07:10 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 09:01:49 2013.

I said "the POTUS" and did not mention his name. And it's fair to measure someone against his politics.

You are here to pick a fight

People here are posting offensive opinions. It's fair to criticize and immature to imply that they are above reproach.

(1261993)

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Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 09:08:42 2013, in response to Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Dec 3 00:13:58 2013.

MN took possession of 2 or 3 of their Comet-III Cab cars used in NJT service, now resting in Harmon. Might these be restored to revenue service to replace these wrecks ?

(1261994)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Dec 3 09:11:56 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:59:22 2013.

I think if he was just under 70 mph, it would still have given the same result. It only puts the train in BIE. That wasn't enough to avoid this accident.

(1261995)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 09:14:59 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Dec 3 09:11:56 2013.

If the posed speed were electrically enforced, 70 would step down to 60, 40, and 30 across 3 signal blocks back. In that mileage, the train would have dumped well before the curve.

(1261997)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 09:33:37 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 09:01:49 2013.

I found out the reason for the remarkable defense of falling asleep behind the throttle. Hmm.

(1261998)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 3 09:42:49 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 09:33:37 2013.

He didn't defend it; he said it wasn't criminal. I'm not convinced he's right under the law, but it was an opinion rather than a statement of fact anyway.



(1261999)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Dec 3 09:47:09 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 09:14:59 2013.

That's what ATP/PTC does.

(1262002)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Dec 3 09:57:14 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 08:55:11 2013.

IAWTP.......Olog has become another TS in disguise. Olog wants the engineer to be executed in the worse way.

(1262003)

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Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment

Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Dec 3 09:58:16 2013, in response to Re: NTSB: Train going too fast at curve before wreck Re: Breaking News MNRR Derailment, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 3 08:29:41 2013.

"On a highway with speed limit 70, an exit ramp may say Exit Speed 30. Everyone knows you can't wait until the last second to slow down."

Out here we *do* take exit ramps at 75 mph. They are long enough and free of curves so that this is no problem.





(1262004)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Dec 3 09:59:01 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Dec 3 09:00:45 2013.

YOU'RE A FUCKING BEAST! AND ANOTHER ASSCLOWN LIKE YOUR BUDDY CHICAGOMOTORMOUTH.

(1262005)

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Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle

Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Dec 3 10:00:40 2013, in response to Re: Report: Rockefeller was asleep at the throttle, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 3 09:01:49 2013.

AND HE SHOULD CONTINUE TO PICK HIS NOSE.

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