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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order Express

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Dec 9 19:55:04 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order Express, posted by RockParkMan on Sun Dec 9 18:17:20 2012.

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It's not nice to fool Mr. T.

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(1191228)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by RockParkMan on Sun Dec 9 19:58:22 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 9 19:44:00 2012.

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ELO RULES
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiYdFbH4nNw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11A8JZ-RDDo

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(1191229)

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Re: TURTLE 5 Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by RockParkMan on Sun Dec 9 20:01:10 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Dec 9 19:52:22 2012.

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Turtle 5

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(1191230)

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Re: TURTLE 5 Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by RockParkMan on Sun Dec 9 20:01:10 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Dec 9 19:52:22 2012.

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Turtle 5

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(1191231)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 9 20:01:42 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by RockParkMan on Sun Dec 9 19:58:22 2012.

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One of many reasons why I was more than happy to play that stuff in the dead of night on the radio where they'd actually let me. :)

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(1191232)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Dec 9 20:03:13 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 9 18:09:08 2012.

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Tricky Dicky was probably the worst President in the 20th Century. He made Bush look like a genius. His first Veep, Spiro Agnew, was actually worse than Nixon. I knew him when he was Baltimore County Executive, he ran as a Democrat as "Ted" Agnew. He was a crook, but we didn't know that yet.

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(1191233)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by RockParkMan on Sun Dec 9 20:03:33 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 9 20:01:42 2012.

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What shit did Management approve of?!?!?!

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(1191235)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 9 20:19:33 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by RockParkMan on Sun Dec 9 20:03:33 2012.

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"Mix it up" was the word of the daytime, Bruce Stringbean, darkness on the edge of a salad bowl and such. Mods were asleep at 3AM, I played what I wanted to. :)

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(1191252)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by kp5308 on Sun Dec 9 22:00:43 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 9 19:44:00 2012.

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Welcome back my friends to THE SHOW that never ends :o)

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(1191255)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 9 22:08:52 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by kp5308 on Sun Dec 9 22:00:43 2012.

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"We're so glad you wear Attends, come inside come inside ..." :)

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(1191258)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by mcorivervsaf on Sun Dec 9 22:16:07 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 9 17:13:31 2012.

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PWNED.

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(1191262)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by WillD on Sun Dec 9 23:45:00 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 8 21:46:23 2012.

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If you're going to do that then you could probably manage an 80+mph average speed on NJT's NEC Locals by using a Stadler FLIRT based on those delivered to Norway. And they'll do 125mph for those 3900-series Princeton expresses.

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(1191273)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 10 00:37:43 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 9 20:19:33 2012.

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indeed, pretty much universally the 12A-6A shift was free range not only because the bosses were long asleep or otherwise engaged but also because advertisers were less anal about the time slot. The "free form" era was really short and even at its peak the best (other than the rare one offs) were Metromedia WMMR, WNEW, KSAN, and a couple others. The CBS and ABC efforts at grabbing that market were lame in the extreme. Radio went robot and with FCC turning into a facilitator rather than a regulator huge chains of clones. Ultimately they have wrecked an industry, but over on the interwebs and in the commie/public/college end of the dial we get interesting stuff--like a couple different local SF shows each doing nothing but train songs occasionally. Two hours RR songs, yay!

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(1191275)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 10 01:05:34 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Dec 10 00:37:43 2012.

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Heh. Even on WNEW-FM, I got away with things that would have put Allison Steele into an earlier grave. Scott Muni would call me into his office every Monday and remind me that I should only play what was on the rack, then we'd do some bourbon and forget all about it. :)

Of all the stations I worked in the city, WLIR in Hemphead and WRNW when they were still in Mount Kisco were my faves ... I could do ANYTHING I wanted there. When I finally owned my own station in New Paltz, that was absolutely the tits because I was the boss. Nobody dared tell me what not to do on the radio. (grin)

Up here, WRPI (college of the same name) actually had a show in PM drive time called the "Barking Dogs hour" ... and yes, barking dogs too. Siena College also had a decent station until the Gen-X crowd asserted content control and both stations went to shit a few years ago.

I was lucky. Got into FM in the late 60's when FM really hadn't developed much audience, it was still the AM's that had the numbers and so the only reason why folks like me got hired in the first place was to keep the transmitter tubes warm for the morning shift. Heh.

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(1191298)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order Express

Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Dec 10 07:37:59 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order Express, posted by mcorivervsaf on Sun Dec 9 18:10:38 2012.

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Man I miss him with the 450 lbs. of 24 karat gold around his neck....somehow....one big rope chain just doesn't cut it anymore. lol

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(1191302)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order Express

Posted by mcorivervsaf on Mon Dec 10 07:57:49 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order Express, posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Dec 10 07:37:59 2012.

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IAWTP!

I miss this show even more!




:(

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(1191317)

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Re: Amtrak Cancels Order Express

Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Mon Dec 10 10:57:15 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Cancels Order Express, posted by mcorivervsaf on Mon Dec 10 07:57:49 2012.

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I'm Murdock....by far.

"They put you in a little box......and cover you up with dirt...c'mon, man, how am I doing?" lol

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(1192004)

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Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 21:38:10 2012, in response to Amtrak Cancels Order for additional 40 Acela Express coach cars, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 7 18:01:52 2012.

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Uh-oh. Looks like the same disease that NJT was infected with back when the late Warrington arrived. You know how old the current Acela trains are? About 14 years. (Wow, the same age as the newest ALP-44s over on NJT.)

Amtrak Press Release

AMTRAK ADVANCES PLANS TO ACQUIRE NEW HIGH-SPEED TRAIN SETS FOR NORTHEAST CORRIDOR

Next-generation equipment best option to meet growing ridership demand

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
December 13, 2012
WASHINGTON — In order to better meet strong and growing ridership demand on the Northeast Corridor (NEC), Amtrak is advancing plans to acquire new next-generation high-speed train sets and ending its plans to purchase 40 additional high-speed passenger cars to add to the existing Acela Express fleet.

In early 2013, Amtrak will issue a Request for Information (RFI) to formally start the process that will replace the existing 20 Acela Express train sets and add additional train sets to expand seating capacity and provide for more frequent high-speed service on the NEC.

“Moving directly to new high-speed train sets is the best option to create more seating capacity, permit higher speeds, and maximize customer comfort all while improving equipment reliability and reducing operating costs,” said President and CEO Joe Boardman.

He explained that the previous plan to add 40 new passenger cars with newer technology to the older Acela train sets was a stop-gap measure, posed technical challenges and was determined not to be cost effective and insufficient to handle new ridership growth projections.

Boardman made the announcement before a Congressional committee saying that in the past two years Amtrak has moved forward a number of major proposals designed to address the NEC’s growth and development needs.

The proposals are detailed in the Amtrak Vision for the Northeast Corridor 2012 Update Report. First, is the NEC Upgrade Program to bring the corridor up to a state of good repair, add additional capacity to allow limited service growth, and make targeted trip-time improvements for all existing intercity, commuter and freight services. Among the elements is the Gateway Program to build vital track, tunnel and station capacity into the heart of Manhattan to support Amtrak and commuter rail growth.

Second, is the next-generation high-speed rail program to provide America’s economic, political and cultural capitals in the Northeast with the world-class 220 mph high-speed service the region deserves. With possible operating profits over a billion dollars annually and ridership well into 40 million riders a year upon full build-out, Amtrak expects that private capital, probably in the form of a public-private partnership, could play a significant role in this project.

Boardman said the international experience with high-speed rail projects is that “only after the public sector has allocated significant funding and committed itself to a project of this magnitude that the private sector is willing to enter the deal and deliver value for money.” Adding that, “[o]nce these services are generate revenue streams, these projects can and will attract private funding that can help repay initial capital costs.”

He went on to say he is certain Amtrak has been a good steward of the NEC noting that he is “confident that we have mapped out a workable plan, and that our search for a truly regional solution to the challenges of capacity will be successful.”

In FY 2012, Amtrak set a national ridership record of 31.2 million passengers, including a new record of 11.4 million riders on its Northeast Corridor services. In addition, the introduction of high-speed Acela Express service in 2000 has transformed the air-rail market in the Northeast. Today, Amtrak carries three passengers for every one airline passenger between New York and Washington, and carries more passengers between New York and Boston than all the airlines combined—making Amtrak not simply an alternative, but a preferred choice.

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(1192009)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 13 22:05:06 2012, in response to Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 21:38:10 2012.

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From RFI to RFP to granting contract and delivering trains is about 8 years, not to soon to replace these trainsets, but then Olog knows more than Rail management so what the hell.... We will see new Acela's around 2020... just sayin..

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(1192010)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 22:06:28 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 13 22:05:06 2012.

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but then Olog knows more than Rail management

Since you put it that way, nobody can ever love rail management more than you do.

It's not too hard to deduce that "rail management" knows squat when they behave in this manner.

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(1192011)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 13 22:10:05 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 22:06:28 2012.

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You on other have no rail connection other than being a legend in your own mind ...

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(1192012)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 22:12:05 2012, in response to Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 21:38:10 2012.

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Bloomberg Businessweek

Amtrak Plans to Replace All High-Speed Acela Trains

By Angela Greiling Keane on December 13, 2012
The announcement by Amtrak, the U.S. intercity passenger railroad, that it will replace its fleet of Acela trains may create new competition for Bombardier Inc., supplier of equipment used since the service’s start.

“There’s not that many companies that build the trains,” said Andy Kunz, president and chief executive officer of the U.S. High Speed Rail Association. “But the handful that there are would all be ready to bid.”

The 12-year-old Acela, which operates between Washington and Boston, is by far Amtrak’s fastest and most profitable service. It produced about a fourth of the taxpayer-supported railroad’s $2 billion in ticket revenue for the year ended Sept. 30. About 3.4 million passengers rode Acela trains during that period.

Amtrak’s decision to buy new trains comes as it develops long-range plans to offer service as fast as 220 miles per hour (354 kilometers per hour) in the Northeast, an effort it’s said will cost $151 billion. The railroad has doubled its share of air-rail travel between New York and Washington, to about 75 percent, since the Acela was introduced and airport security became more time-consuming after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Replacing the Acela fleet may be Amtrak’s biggest equipment purchase since it bought the original trains in a contract valued at $1.2 billion when signed in 1996. Amtrak doesn’t have a cost estimate because it’s at “the very beginning of this process,” Steve Kulm, a railroad spokesman, said.

Seven Years

Montreal-based Bombardier worked with Alstom SA (ALO), based in Levallois-Perret, France, to build the 20 Acela train sets that consist of locomotives integrated with passenger cars. “We would love to work with Amtrak on their next generation of trains,” Maryanne Roberts, a company spokeswoman, said in an e- mail yesterday.

Other companies that may be interested include Siemens AG (SIE), Patentes Talgo SA, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. (7011), Hitachi Ltd. (6501) and Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles SA (CAF), according to Kunz and Tom Simpson, president of the Railway Supply Institute.

In announcing the fleet replacement yesterday, Amtrak said it scrapped a plan to buy 40 Acela passenger cars from Bombardier and lengthen each train set by two cars to increase capacity.

“What we really need to do is replace the Acela with new equipment,” Amtrak Chief Executive Officer Joseph Boardman told a congressional committee in Washington. “I told our folks they need to get this done by the time I’m 70, and I’ll be 64 next year.”

Higher Demand

The Washington-based railroad is already buying new equipment for its slower, long-distance train services, replacing cars made as long ago as the 1940s. In July 2010, it announced a $298.1 million contract for 130 passenger cars with the U.S. unit of CAF, based in Gipuzkoa, Spain. Three months later, it said it would spend $466 million on 70 new electric locomotives made by Siemens, based in Munich.

In a fleet plan issued in March, Amtrak estimated the lifespan of Acela trains to be 20 to 25 years.

“By the time they get to be replaced, they’ll be 18 to 20” years old, Kulm said. “It’s not that the equipment is wearing out; it’s that the demand has increased.”

The cost of replacing the Acela will be higher than the fleet’s original cost because of rail safety regulations imposed since 1996, Simpson said in an interview.

Those include higher standards for crashworthiness of passenger rail cars and a requirement for technology, known as positive train control, that can automatically stop a train before a collision.

Old Technology

Amtrak appears to have decided it’s cheaper to buy new trains than upgrade, said Kunz, of the Washington-based high speed rail group, whose members include Bombardier, Alstom, Siemens and Patentes Talgo.

The Acela is built with technology that dates back 15 years so it makes sense for Amtrak to look at newer options, David Gunn, Amtrak’s president from 2002 to 2005, said in an interview.

The Acela is heavier than bullet trains in Europe because it was built to stringent U.S. crash standards, he said. That’s necessary in part because U.S. passenger and freight trains share tracks, even on the Amtrak-owned Northeast Corridor.

Because just two rail tunnels lead into New York’s Penn Station, the only way to get more passengers on the popular service is to add rail cars, and the Acela was built to operate at one length, Gunn said. Maintenance facilities in New York, Washington and Boston won’t accommodate longer trains, he said.

Too Expensive

“You can create a longer Acela, but it would create a bunch of additional problems,” Gunn said. “If you were going for new equipment, you wouldn’t just dust off the Acela.”

While Acela trains can run up to 150 miles per hour (241 kilometers per hour), the limitations of tracks and tunnels along most of the route dictate that they move more slowly. Seventeen are in operation on weekdays with trains leaving Washington and Boston, and New York in both directions, about hourly.

Amtrak abandoned its plan to buy passenger cars after its inspector general questioned the “high dollar value and Amtrak’s plan to award a sole-source contract,” according to a Dec. 4 report.

“They were too expensive,” Boardman said.

Toilet Traps

Amtrak has continued to work with Bombardier despite a series of mechanical and design failures in the early years of Acela service that embroiled the companies in litigation. Its start was delayed almost a year and twice, in 2002 and 2005, Amtrak parked the entire Acela fleet to fix cracks in brakes and shock absorbers.

Other defects included the passenger cars being four inches too wide to use tilting mechanisms that allow for higher speeds while rounding corners, and restroom doors that “frequently trapped passengers from exiting the toilet,” author Frank Wilner wrote in “Amtrak Past, Present, Future,” published this year.

Wilner has worked as a spokesman for the United Transportation Union and as chief of staff for the U.S. Surface Transportation Board, which regulates rail rates and mergers.

Replacing the Acela rather than making the trains longer could delay getting additional capacity on the popular route, Ross Capon, president of the National Association of Railroad Passengers, a Washington-based advocacy group, said in an interview.

“My concern is, when all is said and done, the additional capacity will be farther in the future,” Capon said. “I just wonder if it’s trying to put the best face on a bad situation.”

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(1192013)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 22:13:05 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 13 22:10:05 2012.

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That only elevates your love of management further. Got another one?

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(1192014)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 13 22:30:48 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 22:13:05 2012.

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Nope, so go back under your rock and hide

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(1192016)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 13 22:46:49 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Dec 13 22:05:06 2012.

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as a yardstick from the past...Great Northern bought the first lightweight Empire Builder sets for delivery in 1947. By 1954 they ordered an entire replacement fleet including the Great Domes for the Builder and reassigned the relatively young trainsets as the Western Star. Nothing to prevent Amtrak from assigning Acela !s to some other service when new equipment arrives.

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(1192018)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 23:02:14 2012, in response to Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 13 21:38:10 2012.

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CNN Money

Amtrak to replace high-speed Acela trains

By James O'Toole
December 13, 2012: 3:21 PM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — Amtrak announced plans Thursday to replace its fleet of high-speed trains on the East Coast.

The railroad said that early next year, it would begin the process of replacing its 20 existing Acela Express train sets, which run on the Northeast Corridor rail line between Boston and Washington, DC.

"Moving directly to new high-speed train sets is the best option to create more seating capacity, permit higher speeds, and maximize customer comfort all while improving equipment reliability and reducing operating costs," Amtrak CEO Joe Boardman said in a statement.

The Acela Express train sets comprise two power cars and six passenger cars each. The current fleet started service between 1999 and 2000.

Amtrak said the plan envisioned an increase in train sets to provide "more frequent high-speed service" on the Northeast Corridor. Amtrak spokesman Steve Kulm said it was too early to say how many trains would be added or what the cost of the project would be, but that the railroad hopes to have the first new trains within five to seven years.

Amtrak, created by Congress in 1970, operates as a for-profit company, with the government as the majority stockholder. It has long struggled financially, losing $1.3 billion in the 2011 fiscal year.

Ridership is on the rise, however, hitting records of 31.2 million nationwide for the year ended September 30 and 11.4 million on the Northeast Corridor.

Amtrak said Thursday that it had scrapped a previous plan to add 40 new passenger cars to the existing fleet, deeming it too expensive and "insufficient to handle new ridership growth projections."

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(1192027)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 13 23:33:20 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Dec 13 22:46:49 2012.

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I'm certainly looking forward to Acela trainsets on Keystone service!

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(1192030)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 00:13:39 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 13 23:33:20 2012.

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Except that they'll never run there.

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(1192039)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by CJ on Fri Dec 14 01:13:06 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 00:13:39 2012.

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They could be used on some regionals. Don't know what else they could be used for other then that. Only time will tell as to what Amtrak will do with the Acela I trainsets.

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(1192042)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 01:28:48 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by CJ on Fri Dec 14 01:13:06 2012.

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Gonna have to make sure they only serve high platform stations. Warrington's folly makes itself more and more apparent as time goes on.

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(1192053)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 14 07:50:17 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 01:28:48 2012.

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You can build more high level platforms. They are not all that expensive when compared to building modern low level platforms. How far off the ground they are is irrelevant, unless of course you fall (or jump or are pushed) in. So construct them with an obvious escape path.

ROAR

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(1192055)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by R30A on Fri Dec 14 08:03:43 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 01:28:48 2012.

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As all corridor regional, inner empire, keystone, and inland route stations are to get high level platforms in the next 10 years, such will become less of a problem.

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(1192076)

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 13:30:13 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 14 07:50:17 2012.

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You can build more high level platforms.

Of course! The solution must be more government spending, right? We'll just throw good money after bad to allow these Acelas to be cascaded into lesser services.

They are not all that expensive when compared to building modern low level platforms.

And your experience in the field which leads you to say this what exactly again? Cause I worked on SEPTA's Fort Washington station reconstruction and there is a world of difference between a 12" TOR slab (essentially a sidewalk any contractor can pour) and a series of mini-piles supporting a prestressed concrete frame on which a reinforced concrete slab that just happens to sit four feet in the air.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 13:32:06 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by R30A on Fri Dec 14 08:03:43 2012.

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That won't happen. The more high platforms there are, the more problems with freight train clearance you create.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 13:32:52 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by CJ on Fri Dec 14 01:13:06 2012.

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Kind of a waste to use them on "some regionals" given their capabilities, isn't it? Back to the Capitoliner days?

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 13:43:52 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Nilet on Thu Dec 13 23:33:20 2012.

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That's like expecting the Keystone Corridor to have Class 8 track, and for stations like Middletown, Mount Joy, Parkesburg, Coatesville, Downingtown, Exton, Paoli and Ardmore to suddenly sprout high platforms.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Dec 14 13:46:53 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 13:30:13 2012.

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while you are correct about the higher complexity/cost, the benefit of roll on roll off boarding trumps. Not only for ADA, but as the baby boomers approach knee/hip issues, and the much younger white collar giant briefcase crowd proliferate, the era of climbing up/down will become solely the stuff of excursions and low end tourist operations. If nothing else, roro is faster meaning shorter dwell.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 13:51:27 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by R30A on Fri Dec 14 08:03:43 2012.

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Given the other things they can spend their scarce capital funding on, things that would actually reduce travel times, like constant tension catenary, spending money on high platforms just to avoid trashing the Acelas early is the very definition of throwing good money after bad.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 13:51:51 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Dec 14 13:46:53 2012.

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the benefit of roll on roll off boarding trumps

That does not exist with high platforms—and LIRR passengers still don't forget the gaps, never mind the need for bridge plates even where the track is straight. It would exist better with low platforms and low-floor cars though.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Dec 14 14:15:51 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 13:51:51 2012.

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Having grown up w/high level platforms on the IC, and various Els/subways, as well as PRR north (RR east) of 30th St, I got the concept decades ago. Selling me on retaining low platforms w high floor trains? better chance A/C for winter use in igloos.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 14 14:55:24 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 13:30:13 2012.

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Maybe you do not understand what a modern train platform consists of.

Yes there is a slab, and over the length of a train ground needs to be made level no matter which solution you use. Beyond that there are fences, light poles, station houses, seating, ticket vending machines, staircases and ramps even for "ground" platforms, since it is likely that they will be at a different elevation than say the parking lot. You need ramps that go over or under the tracks to serve the trains on the other platform, or if you are building an island platform, then the height of the platform is really very irrelevant since there will be extensive structure anyway.

Ground level platforms, such as I am used to on Long Island, such as we have here in North Dakota cannot accommodate low floor trains in any event and will need to be built up to match the floor level of the equipment to be used.

What LION says is if you must build a new station then the height of the platform is irrelevant to the overall costs of construction.

LION says:Climb out of the 19th Century and join the 21st Century before you get run over by a train.

ROAR

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by italianstallion on Fri Dec 14 16:25:44 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 13:51:27 2012.

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I suspect high plats reduce travel times as it takes less time to embark and debark.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by R30A on Fri Dec 14 16:38:05 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 13:51:27 2012.

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Such was to happen anyway, and is to happen regardless of the Acelas. While I do not think the acelas being displaced is a good reason alone to say high platform the keystones, I think perhaps prioritizing one line for the project might be sensible.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:11:18 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by CJ on Fri Dec 14 01:13:06 2012.

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They don't have enough capacity for Regionals - most are now 8 - 9 car Amfleets.

Removing a coach and the Bistro for Keytsone would be a good working retirement for them, and keep one of the power units off-line, as it would be way over-powered. Whether they want to is another matter.

Amtrak puts a hell of a lot more mileage on their equipment within a given time frame than commuter railroads do.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:12:19 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Dec 14 07:50:17 2012.

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Then you have to start considering gauntlet track if you are going to go through high level platforms at 160 MPH.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by kp5308 on Fri Dec 14 19:54:38 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 14 13:30:13 2012.

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Cause I worked on SEPTA's Fort Washington station reconstruction

Why not share with the rest of us the inside poop on how a project like that is handled? I know I'm interested!

there is a world of difference between a 12" TOR slab (essentially a sidewalk any contractor can pour) and a series of mini-piles supporting a prestressed concrete frame on which a reinforced concrete slab that just happens to sit four feet in the air..

I've done both & it takes much more physical & mental effort in the field to pour a "sidewalk" than do a prefab job with footers. "Any contractor" cannot do this. I'm sure these guys would agree with me. This comment screams of no actual experience doing the labor.


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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Fred G on Fri Dec 14 20:59:24 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by kp5308 on Fri Dec 14 19:54:38 2012.

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Poured is more forgiving on the layout tho. At least that's what they always beat into us :O

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Dec 14 21:07:46 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 13:32:06 2012.

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no clearance problems at all, only if you run high and wide.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 21:08:41 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:12:19 2012.

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Germany's ICE-T goes past high platforms at 143 mph sans gantlets.

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Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 14 21:09:40 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Announces Order for complete replacement of 20 Acela Express trainsets, posted by Joe V on Fri Dec 14 18:11:18 2012.

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That doesn't mean that the "mileage" translates to wear and tear. Lotta difference between highway miles and local miles with frequent starts/stops.

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