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| (1163015) | |
Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 13:22:20 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 20 22:30:23 2012. I know. The subway that exists today existed as far as the Brooklyn border when the war ended it. What I am saying is that at the time this map was published (1939) construction under Pitkin had probably not started or only in the most preliminary of phases. The lack of a Broadway-ENY station and no indication of express or local stations indicated that the final configuration of the line doesn't even seem to have been decided upon. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 13:24:04 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 12:49:55 2012. Once upon a time, I used to have enough nickels to go to Peter Lugar a few times a year. I opened a Peter Lugar account, so I could sign for meals. As part of the account, you received a few guest cards. You could sign them and give them as a gift to business associates or whoever (and were responsible for whatever they ate). Very classy! Those were the days. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 21 13:27:42 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by GIS Man on Thu Jun 21 12:56:59 2012. I have a 1967 NYC Street Map which shows "43 Avenue" connecting Main St to Kissena Blvd. I'ds wondered about that for years...as the so-alled street would run right through the Skyline Towers parking lot.Before I knew of this little mapmaker's trick (I learned of it on here, a few years back), I'd looked for any signs this street had ever existed...and of course, I dound none...and now I know why. FYI, skyline was built circa 1962, so even if the road ever existed, it woulda been gone by '67. And available aerial vews from '51 & '54 show it never existed... |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 21 13:33:27 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 13:22:20 2012. Seems logical enough. I agree that in 1939-41, a lot could have happened, so in 1939, there's nothing but a line on a map..and by late 1941- mid 1942 (whenever they stopped), a nearly complete ENY could've materialized. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Asgard on Thu Jun 21 13:34:17 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 09:12:42 2012. For example, Algoe, NY, and Beatosu OH:http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/130593 |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Jun 21 13:40:31 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 21 11:32:51 2012. The BQE becomes the Bruckner which has a connection to I 87 In the Bronx, I 80 could be extended into the Bronx and divide off to Van Wyck and terminate at JFK airport so both designations would be more accurate or at least the Wyck can carry an I 95 spur designation. Since I78 never made it into the city the point of having highways carry its spur is strange. |
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| (1163031) | |
Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 21 14:02:24 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by ClearAspect on Thu Jun 21 13:40:31 2012. I think the bushwick expressway was supposed to be I78 too. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 14:20:53 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 13:24:04 2012. I've been there once, with my father, when I was a teenager. Overrated. But I'm not really a steak aficionado to begin with. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 14:22:57 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 21 13:33:27 2012. Even underpinning the el, they could have dug that tunnel from the border to Rockaway Ave in a year, or less. Construction was easier and quicker back then. They built the entire 8th Ave line between 207th and Chambers St (including all the tracks, power, etc) in 7 years. |
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| (1163042) | |
Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Jun 21 14:38:41 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 21 14:02:24 2012. Correctomundo, I love highway history as much as Subway history, it makes me wonder how interconnected our city would be had all the subway and highways that were planned were built. Its just mind boggling. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 14:39:43 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 13:24:04 2012. The best reasonably-priced steakhouse, in my opinion, is Texas Roadhouse, a chain with very few restaurants on the East Coast. I discovered it on the West Coast. Outback is disgusting. Last time I went there I had to send back the steak twice because you couldn't even cut it! With a steak knife, no less. The manager came over, she agreed. The third steak was ok and the meal was made complimentary. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 14:43:16 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 14:20:53 2012. I love a great steak, and I have to admit Peter Lugar is the best I've ever had. It is the only place I've ever eaten where I'm willing to put up with things I wouldn't anywhere else, like high prices, no credit cards, potentially long waits, few side dishes (but the creamed spinach IS excellent) and not especially friendly service.The steak is THAT good. I will acknowledge that there is a better choice of steak houses in the suburbs than even a few years ago. I especially like Teller's in Islip. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 14:49:32 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 14:39:43 2012. For the price, I've had better experiences than that at Outback. I don't look for great steak there and I don't find it. ;-) |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:01:09 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 21 08:11:58 2012. Correct, but there was actually no direct connection from Pitkin to South Rd until the realignment was made. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:08:28 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 20 22:31:41 2012. That is exactly what I am saying and an ERA Bulletin from a few years ago showed the proposed track diagram of the line east of Euclid and how the connection to the LIRR ROW from the Pitkin subway was to have been made. |
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| (1163053) | |
Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:11:19 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jun 21 13:03:01 2012. I doubt that WWII had anything to do with it since the model board at Euclid in 1948 clearly shows the proposed 76 St station and the leads between Pitkin Yd and 76 St. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:15:18 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 13:22:20 2012. If anyone has seen a Hagstrom map from 1956 just before the IND was connected to the Fulton el, you will note that the proposed connection between the IND and the Fulton El and the entire line is shown as being under construction but there are no stations at all indicated on the "new" portions. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:19:30 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 12:56:46 2012. Those who claim to have been in the station shell all say that the few tiles that were installed on the station wall display "76 Street" not 75 St. I have seen PSC reports about the dual contracts that show stations that were planned one way and actually built differently. |
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| (1163059) | |
Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:43:46 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 21 00:01:28 2012. The original LIRR station, referred to by IND personnel as "Old Aqueduct." was built to be convenient to the original entrance to the track. when the track was rebuilt in the late 1950s, the entrance was moved to its present location. Since the original station was no longer sufficiently close, the NYRA paid to have a new platform built adjacent to the new racetrack entrance. The NYRA, however only volunteered to pay for one platform on the N/B (manhattan bound) side and the city did not want to pay for a S/B platform. As a result, when the track was open, a single track operation ran between Liberty Jct and Howard Bch so S/B trains could access the race track station. and it was built into the regular timetable so that supplement schedules were not necessary. After the last race, and just before the start of the PM rush, S/B trains ran normal bypassing the race track station since by then, most if not all of the passenger flow was N/B towards Manhattan. Race track specials that departed 42/8 lower level terminated at the Race Track station and laid up in the middle track S/O Howard Bch and were spotted for N/B service to clear the race track station after the last race. M - F these returning specials that were put in service at Aqueduct Race Track were actually E put ins N/O Euclid when the race track was closed but served to carry passengers exiting the race track when it was open. On Saturdays, when E service did not run to Brooklyn, these trains returned to 42/8 as specials. At some point in the 1980s, the race track special service was discontinued and passengers from midtown Manhattan were advised to use the JFK expresses which now made the stop at the race track station. From what I understand, at the present time, the NYCT no longer single tracks into the race track station requiring race track passengers to go to old Aqueduct and transfer to Manhattan bound trains that make the trace track stop. When the race track was opened, the wages and salaries of all RTO personnel and supervision assigned to the race track station, special trains and the associated Station Dept personnel both at Aqueduct and 42/8 were reimbursed by the NYRA. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:46:26 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 14:39:43 2012. Sounds like you got a bum steer! |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:49:24 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 14:43:16 2012. Though I've never eaten in Peter Luger's, when I drive the N20/N21 bus I pass it a few times each day. A few years ago, my bus broke down right in front of Luger's. Without asking, the personnel realized my situation and after I told the valets I'd be there a while, they brought me out two great hamburgers, with their compliments!!! I was shocked. I really out them a paid visit. |
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| (1163065) | |
Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:49:42 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Jun 21 09:20:52 2012. Since you brought up the water table in that area, I believe that is the reason that the Pitkin Subway was never extended as proposed past the 76 St area. I had heard that during construction, the engineers encountered severe water problems which caused them to cease further construction. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:50:49 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 14:49:32 2012. There is great steak at Texas Roadhouse (Hempstead Turnpike just east of Newbridge Road, north side, East Meadow) and they let you choose your own steak if you wish, like you would at a butcher. Specials before 6pm and on Wednesday. Check their website. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:51:19 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:46:26 2012. Very good! Actually, TWO bum steers! |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:52:53 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:19:30 2012. Do you think the large PSC book from 1933 would have any information? I do have that book. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:53:52 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:51:19 2012. Well then you certainly had a beef with them. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:55:27 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:53:52 2012. And that beef turned out to be "on the house!" |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:57:17 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:52:53 2012. I'm not sure, but it wouldn't hurt to check. Most of the sources I have seen seem to indicate that the PSC for the NY District was replaced by the Board of Transportation but that doesn't sound quite right since prior to the creation of the NYCTA in 1953, even the post unification NYCTS was subject to PSC jurisdiction. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:58:06 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:55:27 2012. And that's no bull! |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 16:01:48 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:50:49 2012. That sounds great! I wish they were a little closer to Suffolk, but... |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jun 21 16:02:25 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by tunnelrat on Wed Jun 20 22:28:56 2012. Prior to July 3rd, 1916, you could take the Broadway el shuttle from Marcy Ave or Broadway Ferry, to Driggs Ave, to get to Peter Luger's. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 16:11:46 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jun 21 16:02:25 2012. Seems to me to be a good reason to restore service. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 16:12:54 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:49:42 2012. That kind of thing is usually figured out before starting construction. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jun 21 16:15:51 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:19:30 2012. If that section of the Pitkin Ave subway tunnel was built to 76th Street, there should be a record of it somewhere. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 17:41:24 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 15:58:06 2012. That "bull" must have been from a tough bull at Outback! |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 19:53:09 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 16:12:54 2012. I agree and maybe that's the reason there is so much mystery surrounding the existence of the station shell. I could be that a corrupt engineering firm OKd the construction and when the contractors actually started building in that area they found it unsuitable for further construction and so the building was halted at that point. Possibly to cover up the corruption, the subway infrastructure was sealed beyond that point and all records and other evidence of its existence destroyed. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 21 20:13:43 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by randyo on Thu Jun 21 19:53:09 2012. Conspiracy theories are usually wrong. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 21 20:22:55 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by ClearAspect on Thu Jun 21 13:40:31 2012. OH SHIT! My bad. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Thu Jun 21 20:35:11 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jun 21 16:15:51 2012. the tunnels were built to 79st. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 21 21:03:05 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 09:21:11 2012. Would Bed-Stuy be unlivable or what if that were built.Bed Stuy became unlivable without the expressway. This whole idea that expressways destroyed and made slums is somewhat unfounded, as many neighborhoods fell even without an expressway coming through....Brownsville, Bushwick, East New York, Bed Stuy...the list goes on. All fell and no expressway in sight. Similarly, many neighborhoods thrived even with the expressway coming through...Maspeth, Fresh meadows, Whitestone, and the list goes on.....All fine and stayed strong...even with an expressway right through them. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 21 21:09:27 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by ClearAspect on Thu Jun 21 14:38:41 2012. I do too actually. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jun 21 22:40:59 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 15:50:49 2012. I've been to the Texas Roadhouse way down in La Plata, MD. The food was good, the steak worthy, but hardly like a *real* Texas roadhouse.*VERY* few places here in the US have the right combination of hardware and technique to replicate Peter Luger's steaks. (BTW, my creamed spinach, which is a slight tweak of mia nonna's recipe, or her original, make his seem like Stouffer's. :-D) |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Thu Jun 21 22:45:32 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jun 21 22:40:59 2012. Since I've never had - or don't believe I've had - a "real" Texas steak (even though I've been to Texas many times), I can't honestly say. I wish I knew how to tell a real Texas roadhouse.... Can you help? |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by mike cruz on Thu Jun 21 22:53:58 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jun 21 21:09:27 2012. Same here. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 22:56:53 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by SLRT on Wed Jun 20 20:37:01 2012. Moses is dead. The area it runs in is not well served by the subway. It's a perfect match. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 22:59:46 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by GIS Man on Thu Jun 21 08:35:17 2012.  How much water could that pimping station turn out all over town? |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 21 23:01:08 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by GIS Man on Thu Jun 21 08:39:34 2012. huh...Im glad it wasnt built!My grandfather and I saw one of the plans for our neighborhood..the displacement alone would have been pure hell for many..including OUR HOUSE! |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jun 21 23:02:51 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by SLRT on Thu Jun 21 14:43:16 2012. Directions? would love to take the wife there one evening. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Thu Jun 21 23:14:05 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by GIS Man on Thu Jun 21 12:56:59 2012. Many content creators decorate their work with copyright checks. I do it with software and databases I develop, original writing, and images I put on the web. I learned the trick from my parents (who were architects): *Anything* having to do with a proposal or bid that could be obtained by a competitor has some kind of boobytrap that will expose not only a misappropriation, but also who was responsible. I have had a number of websites nuked from orbit for refusing to remove or compensate me for material I caught them using without authorization. |
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Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Jun 21 23:19:51 2012, in response to Re: IND Pitkin Avenue Extension - map, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jun 21 12:49:55 2012. And no A-1 sauce either. THAT really hurts.-w- |
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