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Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 8 22:02:52 2012

Speaking before the Long Island Association on Tuesday morning, Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chairman and CEO Joseph Lhota said plans to add Long Island Rail Road access to Grand Central Station has hit problems, pushing back estimations of its opening until at least 2019.

“We were originally looking at 2018, but the most recent analyses puts the opening at 2019,” Lhota said. “I don’t want to see it go past 2019.”

The problem with East Side Access isn’t digging below Grand Central Station, where “cavernous tunnels” have been carved out, but on the Queens side of the project. Tunneling underneath the Queens rail yard near Jamaica, where trains from Amtrak and Acela are stored in addition to MTA’s own vehicles, has become an issue.

Contaminated soil languishes and must be disposed of properly, and unlike closer to the water, the ground is soft rather than rocky. Lhota said workers have also run into springs and brooks that nobody knew existed below the surface. The MTA has brought in experts from Europe to help with developing a plan going forward.

The East Side Access plan is the first major expansion of the railroad system in 100 years, Lhota said, noting that upon completion, it would shave an estimated 40 minutes off commuting time for Long Islanders who work on the East Side of Manhattan and would increase capacity of the Long Island Rail Road by 41 percent.

“There are 800,000 people per day that go through Penn Station,” Lhota said. “And 60 percent of those are Long Island Rail Road riders. East Side Access should relieve a lot of that burden.”

Once it is determined how much of an impact East Side Access has on Penn Station, Lhota said the MTA may look at having the MTA’s Metro North railroad come to Penn Station. Currently only the Long Island Rail Road Amtrak and New Jersey PATH Transit lines run at Penn Station – the country’s largest train station.
---http://libn.com/2012/05/08/lhota-tells-lia-no-east-side-access-until-2019/

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue May 8 22:07:38 2012, in response to Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 8 22:02:52 2012.

If they had only gone with a Karlsruhe tram-train over the Queensboro Bridge and a midtown distribution loop via 2nd and 3rd Avenues, this would have been done at least a decade ago, with billions of dollars in cost savings....

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 8 22:07:41 2012, in response to Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 8 22:02:52 2012.

Long Island Rail Road commuters may have to wait until 2019 for service to Grand Central Terminal, Metropolitan Transportation Authority chairman Joseph Lhota said Tuesday.

"The most recent analysis" of the agency's $7.3-billion East Side Access plan put the expected opening date in 2019 -- a year later than the last review, Lhota told a Long Island Association meeting of business, community and elected leaders.

"It's my expectation -- 2019," he said.

While the agency is still aiming to finish the so-called megaproject by 2018, various complications could delay it until the next year, Lhota said in an interview after the meeting.

"If everything bad happens, it might push it out a year," he said. "I'm doing everything I can to keep it at 2018."

The East Side Access plan, which Lhota called the "largest public works project currently going only in the United States," will link the LIRR to the Grand Central through newly-bored tunnels in Manhattan and Queens.

Lhota said the project will save about 160,000 LIRR riders at least 40 minutes a day in their commutes. It also will raise property values in Nassau and Suffolk counties by making Long Island more attractive to people who work on Manhattan's east side, he said.

Late last year, MTA officials said they were still working to hit the previous target completion date of 2016, and vowed that the project would be completed no later than April 2018. The MTA has announced several completion dates over the years, including one as early as 2010.

"I think [riders] have gotten so used to the date being pushed back," said LIRR Commuter Council chairman Mark Epstein, who attended the LIA meeting. "The target for completion has probably moved faster than most Long Island Rail Road trains."

MTA officials said in a statement that the analysis moving the date to 2019 is "preliminary" and they are looking for ways to mitigate possible delays.

Lhota said the delays come from complications in boring a tunnel under the busy Harold Interlocking in Long Island City , which is used by the LIRR, Amtrak , New Jersey Transit and freight rail operator New York and Atlantic Railway.

"It's the most complicated interlocking system anywhere in the United States and quite possibly the world, and we're tunneling underneath it," Lhota told the LIA audience. "To tell you it's complicated is an understatement."

Making the work even more difficult is the soft ground under the rail -- portions of which the MTA has had to freeze in order to dig through, he said.

Lhota added that the LIRR needs Amtrak workers' aid to carry out the East Side Access project, but federal officials want work on an unrelated project to build a train station at the James Farley Post Office building on Manhattan's West Side to be Amtrak's priority.

MTA officials have said they need to complete East Side Access by 2018 to keep $2.6 billion in federal funding. Lhota said yesterday he was not certain if that was still the case.

"We wouldn't go to 2019 if the feds said we can't do it. We'd just have to do something different," Lhota said.

The Federal Transit Administration has long raised concerns about the project falling behind schedule. In 2010, it called the situation "grim." Last June, it called the slow progress on some key contracts "unacceptable."

In January, the FTA said that overall construction on the project was only 43 percent complete by December -- short of the goal of 62 percent.

Given the project's benefits to Long Island, LIA president Kevin Law said the latest projection of delays "doesn't concern us."

"It's the biggest infrastructure project in the country. It's bound to have some delays because of all the complications," Law said. "They're doing everything they can to make it happen."
- newsday

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019


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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue May 8 22:08:14 2012, in response to Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 8 22:02:52 2012.

That is probably the same family of springs that has damaged the 21st-Van Alst "G" line station. That problem may be on its way to being fixed. Road work on w/side of Jackson in the vicinity of 21st St and 46 Road; may be prepping for a shot at sealing the station box (saw this Sat 5/5/12).

wayne


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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 8 22:11:27 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue May 8 22:07:38 2012.

this would have been done at least a decade ago, with billions of dollars in cost savings

FWIW, ATO and a two track terminal under GCT would have worked out much better while delivering high capacity service without the need for a giant cavern underneath Manhattan.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by J trainloco on Tue May 8 22:19:41 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 8 22:11:27 2012.

Upper level loop alternative anyone?

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Edwards! on Tue May 8 22:29:14 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 8 22:11:27 2012.

They COULD have gone with the lower level of the station itself..but,you know someone in the planing department had came up with a bright idea NOT to use the PERFECTLY USEABLE HUMUNGOUS TRAIN STATION..but build a totally new on in a cave over 100 ft below the surface of Manhattan.

Hmmm..what do you say to someone like that..looking at all this "trouble..problems..and god knows what less is going on to justify the massive amount of spending this line is forcing..without the super express by pass tunnels included..

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 8 22:36:02 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Edwards! on Tue May 8 22:29:14 2012.

without the super express by pass tunnels included

I've never understood the fetish for the super express when some changes to the fare structure and an increase in headways delivers nearly most of the same effect with the Long Island Railroad.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by jabrams on Tue May 8 23:04:04 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Edwards! on Tue May 8 22:29:14 2012.

Did anyone read the original article. The problem is in Queens. It makes no difference if the LIRR connected to the Upper Level, Lower Level, or as it is being built, its own level. The problem is in Sunnyside Rail yards!!!!

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by JohnL on Tue May 8 23:12:27 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by jabrams on Tue May 8 23:04:04 2012.

Apparently not. And lord save New York if they get something wrong with digging under Harold and there’s a collapse of the roadbed.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 8 23:47:25 2012, in response to Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Gold_12TH on Tue May 8 22:02:52 2012.

Only ESA commuters will be bats, looks like.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue May 8 23:49:38 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 8 22:11:27 2012.

Ironic that after all the time, money, and effort expended digging that cavern under Grand Central and connecting it to the 63rd St. tunnel, the biggest obstacle to the project should turn out to be right under Sunnyside Yard. Also sad that a newspaper story would describe it as being "near Jamaica".

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by WillD on Tue May 8 23:57:33 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Joe Saitta on Tue May 8 22:07:38 2012.

Aside from the Queensboro bridge's superstructure having been steadily degraded over the past two decades to keep it standing and now being entirely incapable of supporting the sort of live load a tram would represent, what does a tram-train have to do with the LIRR? Nobody in their right mind would try to move the sort of traffic ESA will cater to on a tram-train. The Karlsruhe model was an innovative approach, and it certainly could be applied elsewhere in NYC, but it's foolish to apply it as a one size fits all solution to every requirement for new infrastructure.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 01:22:44 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 8 22:36:02 2012.

A FETISH..?

why in the world would it have to be a "fetish"?
Did you forget the MTA itself proposed it way back when..and it was never cancelled..only deferred..

Also..why in the world would the LIRR do anything to accommodate NYC TRANSIT riders..?Have they done ANY of what you've suggested? Even the weekend City Pass is a dollar and a half more in the city zone areas than the regular subway fare.

Furthermore..the LIRR could never be through routed to the rest of the subway system in any way.

Bottom line..I dont understand why you would compare the two entirely different systems to each other.


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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 01:27:51 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by jabrams on Tue May 8 23:04:04 2012.

Apparently we did..otherwise it would be foolhardy to comment on it.

Becides..I stated my OPINION of the ENTIRE FREAKIN PROJECT..INCLUDING HAROLD..what part of that didnt YOU understand.?
The MTA Knew this would be a difficult dig to begin with..period.



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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by TERRapin station on Wed May 9 08:34:29 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Edwards! on Tue May 8 22:29:14 2012.

You don't know what you are talking about. GCT is not perfectly usable, for several reasons. Much work would still have needed to be done.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by TERRapin station on Wed May 9 08:35:14 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 01:22:44 2012.

Because that what you have. A fetish.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by TERRapin station on Wed May 9 08:37:03 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by WillD on Tue May 8 23:57:33 2012.

Excellent post. Why does this bus driver / mean angry old man think that he has all the engineering and planning answers?

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 9 11:17:39 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 01:22:44 2012.

why in the world would it have to be a "fetish"?

You and many others in this group have routinely proposed it on multiple occasions, but one could argue that those of us who argue for S-Bahnization of the commuter rail networks have a fetish for our ideal network as well.

Also..why in the world would the LIRR do anything to accommodate NYC TRANSIT riders..?

I'd argue that they'd have to beaten into doing that. Mind you, what I'm proposing is pretty much de rigeur in much of Europe where the commuter rail networks run at high frequency and there's some type of fare integration within the network. We need to move away from concepts of different payment schemes and prices per network and move to a system where the rider is given the freedom to chose the mode that best works for them.

Furthermore..the LIRR could never be through routed to the rest of the subway system in any way.

Of course not, and the S-Bahns in Germany aren't through routed via the Stadtbahns or U-Bahns with the exception of tram-train networks, nor is the RER routed via Paris Metro, but the idea is to have a complimentary network.

Bottom line..I dont understand why you would compare the two entirely different systems to each other.

Go to Germany like I did, and you'll come back praising it. :-)

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by JRice on Wed May 9 11:26:10 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue May 8 23:49:38 2012.

Plus all the talk of underground springs being total BS. The groundawater throughout Queens is high. That is not the problem at all.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Charles G on Wed May 9 11:33:01 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 9 11:17:39 2012.

It works extremely well here in Switzerland. To get home I can take a bus or a tram/S-bahn combination or I can take a longer haul train one stop (if I'm starting out near the main station). Or I can take a ferry. One ticket, same price. I end up with tons of options -- enough so that I'm considering giving up my car entirely when the lease is up later this year.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Outside the Box on Wed May 9 12:05:12 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by WillD on Tue May 8 23:57:33 2012.

The trucks and trains rolling over the Qb Bridge refutes that. The City has also reinforced/replaced the original structure supporting the former trolley lanes back in the 80's.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed May 9 13:40:05 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by TERRapin station on Wed May 9 08:34:29 2012.

Supply the proff of what you post.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 13:48:10 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 9 11:17:39 2012.

Nah..I'll stick to the good ol USA..thank you very much.
Your s-banh thing will NEVER HAPPEN HERE..IN THE CITY OF NY..PERIOD.

Also..if you have read any of my other post..I've pushed for such an intergration between the LIRR and NYCT for YEARS..using a hybrid rail car that could operate on both systems plus Air train..Through routing the Atlantic Branch to the subway..with services as far as Hempstead,long beach and far rockaway..

The LIRR refuses to even consider it..
What wrong with pushing for a system extension that could open up new rail corridors for riders..add new services? Why not push it if it could work?

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 13:52:00 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed May 9 13:40:05 2012.

its a waste of time..hes a jackass to the core..a unhealable k9 with a shoe fetish.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 16:56:56 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by J trainloco on Tue May 8 22:19:41 2012.

MTA has gone through great elaborations to say the upper level loop is ridiculous. Disruptive to existing buildings and MN service to construct, and permanently disruptive to MN to co-habitate with LIRR. The upper level loop tracks are also unsuitable for heavy use without frequent and disruptive maintenance.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 9 18:45:01 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed May 9 13:40:05 2012.



Supply the proff of what you post.

Why bother? You would never admit that I was right. When you're ready to start being honest and admit that I am right and you are wrong, then I will gladly give more detailed responses in my posts. Until that time, most everyone else will know that I'm right and that you and Edwards are wrong. That's how it usually is.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 20:04:11 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 13:48:10 2012.

< using a hybrid rail car that could operate on both systems plus Air train..Through routing the Atlantic Branch to the subway..with services as far as Hempstead,long beach and far rockaway. The LIRR refuses to even consider it. >

Better question is would FRA ever consider it ?

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 20:08:50 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 9 18:45:01 2012.

huh...Wouldnt care one way or the other..even if you were right..you'd still be wrong!
so you still lose...!

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Gamera on Wed May 9 20:09:48 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 9 18:45:01 2012.



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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 20:15:44 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Gamera on Wed May 9 20:09:48 2012.

text book megalomania..with a smattering of sociopath mixed in.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 9 21:16:35 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed May 9 13:40:05 2012.

LOL! You first. For all of your posts.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 9 21:18:03 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by jabrams on Tue May 8 23:04:04 2012.

Obviously not.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 9 21:24:45 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue May 8 23:49:38 2012.

The same article also referred to "New Jersey PATH Transit trains."

Critical research failure.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Gold_12TH on Wed May 9 21:56:10 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by JRice on Wed May 9 11:26:10 2012.

MTA must have not notice that there is a creek in the old maps. Dutch Kills Creek.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed May 9 23:39:16 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Outside the Box on Wed May 9 12:05:12 2012.

Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Outside the Box on Wed May 9 12:05:12 2012:

The trucks and trains rolling over the Qb Bridge refutes that. The City has also reinforced/replaced the original structure supporting the former trolley lanes back in the 80's.

To clarify with running trains rolling on the QB (Koch) Bridge, you infer that the time period is prior to 1942, yes?

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by WillD on Thu May 10 01:25:04 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Outside the Box on Wed May 9 12:05:12 2012.

The trucks and trains rolling over the Qb Bridge refutes that.

A light rail train of the GT8-100C/D tram-train Mr. Saitta would have the LIRR operate onto Manhattan's streets via his handwaving proposal weighs nearly twice the maximum weight of any truck now using the Queensboro Bridge. As no train currently uses the Queensboro bridge, mostly because of the superstructure removal, that clearly does not refute anything. The bridge has changed in the past three decades.

The City has also reinforced/replaced the original structure supporting the former trolley lanes back in the 80's.

And they put pedestrian walkways on that structure. The bridge *cannot* support a rail line any more.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by J trainloco on Thu May 10 07:47:04 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Joe V on Wed May 9 16:56:56 2012.

No plan is without drawbacks. The money saved from not building a cavern under GCT could have been used to address those issues. Maybe the upper level loop alternative was not feasible as proposed, but the alternative doesn't seem to be particularly easy either.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Joe Saitta on Thu May 10 08:50:01 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by WillD on Thu May 10 01:25:04 2012.

Most of the infrastructure that supported the elevated operation is still there - I'd estimate at least 75% - suggest you go look yourself. That includes the ramps from Queensboro Plaza right up onto the upper roadway, and, at the Manhattan end, just about the entire right-of-way approaching Second Avenue. With a bit of imaginative engineering I am of the opinion it could be done. I have the (and have already posted here) the official weight limit information of the Queensboro Bridge published by the NYC Department of Bridges and it clearly shows that the Queensboro Bridge appears to be the strongest of the Brooklyn, Manhattan and Williamsburg spans, structurally and with higher weight limits, with the latter two, of course, currently supporting rapid transit operations. In addition, weren't the Manhattan and Williamsburg reinforced to allow these rapid transit operations to continue in recent years? I'm not an engineer by any means, but I firmly believe some type of rail operation could be re-installed over the Queensboro Bridge with competent engineering and structural reinforcement. When first opened, this bridge had four trolley lanes and two rapid transit tracks using it.

You state - "The bridge *cannot* support a rail line any more." Could you provide solid, published proof of your statement from an official source? Or is that just your opinion?


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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu May 10 13:29:58 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Edwards! on Wed May 9 20:15:44 2012.

You got that right!! I believe he got fired where he worked before now and sponges off his poor wife. (Anybody remember when he got sacked?)

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by JRice on Thu May 10 16:07:46 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Gold_12TH on Wed May 9 21:56:10 2012.

LOL that is not quite it! I like the idea of the TBMs getting lost and heading to Jamaica. Sounds like a children's book!

I have read the articles froma few different papers now and I think this is the case of one of the local "crack" writers using their crappy notes, poor memory, and no fact checking .



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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu May 10 18:25:23 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Gold_12TH on Wed May 9 21:56:10 2012.

I guess that explains the water damage at 21st Van Alst Ave.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by TERRapin station on Thu May 10 20:45:27 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by JRice on Thu May 10 16:07:46 2012.

Go easy on him. He's not very bright.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by TERRapin station on Thu May 10 20:45:49 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Thu May 10 18:25:23 2012.

Um, no.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri May 11 01:41:19 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by TERRapin station on Thu May 10 20:45:49 2012.

Well it says something.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by jrice on Fri May 11 10:18:07 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 9 21:24:45 2012.

I cringe when I read what reporters get from speaches and press releases. When did fill in the blanks with random stuff become journalism?

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by jrice on Fri May 11 10:22:16 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Joe Saitta on Thu May 10 08:50:01 2012.

In theory, yes. Practical application is too expensive and would beat the poor bridge like the Willy B and Manhattan have been with the high cyclic loads of the trains. The weight and frequency of todays subways far exceeds what was originally envisioned.


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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Joe Saitta on Fri May 11 12:28:24 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by jrice on Fri May 11 10:22:16 2012.

Perhaps, but what about the weight of the tractor-trailers, buses and hordes of all other vehicles crossing today? When the bridge was first opened, the upper level did not exist for vehicles; it is now a 4-lane road many times jammed beyond belief. And those vehicles were much, much lighter and of far less volume than what crosses the bridge today. Surely some crafty engineering could help. I'm of the opinion something can be done to put at least a minimum 2-track rail service somewhere, be it on the outer lower levels or upper one.

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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by jrice on Fri May 11 13:14:36 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by Joe Saitta on Fri May 11 12:28:24 2012.

The buses and trucks are much heavier, but the net impact to these bridges is negligible compared to the trains. They do contribute to very high fatigue loading, which is worse for a bridge.

Tunnels would be better.


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Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019

Posted by Joe Saitta on Fri May 11 14:01:16 2012, in response to Re: Lhota tells Long Island Association no East Side Access until 2019, posted by jrice on Fri May 11 13:14:36 2012.

Perhaps, but the bridge is already there and it would probably cost far less to strengthen it than to build a tunnel, which also would take many more years to construct and "destroy" the neighborhoods around it while doing so. I stand by my opinion that the Queensboro Bridge could be used for rail transit purposes if the powers that be really wanted this done.

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