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March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 12:22:11 2012

And so it was, thirty-five years ago today on Thursday, March 31, 1977, the last revenue service run of the R-7/9's occurred on that date. It was the 8:01am "J" leaving 168th Street-Jamaica Avenue on its way to Broad Street.

When it arrived there some fifty minutes or so later, the train was taken out of service, and ran light all the way to Coney Island Yard for its eventual scrapping there. The eight-car consist was as follows: S{Manhattan)/#1676-1683-1416-1693-1584-1654-1497-1398[ex-722]/(Queens)N.

One week earlier on Friday, March 25, 1977, just one R-7/9 train was observed and assigned to the "LL" route, only making one round trip in each of the rush hour period that day. The eight-car consist was as follows: N(Manhattan)/#1538-1689[*]-1537-1607-1586-1506-1571-1514/(Brooklyn)S.

[*] = Car #1689 is in the collection of the Branford Electric Railway Association at its Shore Line Trolley Museum in East Haven, Connecticut.

-William A. Padron
["J| Nassau Street"]


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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 31 12:55:49 2012, in response to March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 12:22:11 2012.

Interesting, here's an image dated from March 1977 from Canarsie showing a 17XX unit still on the property:



Location: Rockaway Parkway (Canarsie) Yard
Car: R-9 (Pressed Steel, 1940) 1794
Photo by: Ed McKernan
Collection of: Joe Testagrose
Date: 3/1977

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by chud1 on Sat Mar 31 13:06:47 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 31 12:55:49 2012.

oh, how i miss this subway cars.
chud1

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service


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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 14:10:50 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 31 12:55:49 2012.

I forgot how ugly they were

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 14:11:21 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by chud1 on Sat Mar 31 13:06:47 2012.

None of the ones they painted silver & blue made it to the very end,

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 31 14:54:35 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 14:11:21 2012.

Just as well- I hated those silver and blue colors on the R-9's! I really disliked the "modern" look on those 35 year old cars. The R-10's should have been repainted in their original colors, too. 20+ year old cars should not be painted a different color. Just my opinion!

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Mar 31 15:15:27 2012, in response to March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 12:22:11 2012.

It seems that once the scrapping began (around 1975-76), an additional group of R-7s were sent from Jamaica to the East. The original transfer was #1440-1802 back in 1967-68.

wayne

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 15:39:51 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Mar 31 15:15:27 2012.

And two months later, this is what happened to #1398 (ex-#722), seen on the "bottom", when it entered into the scrapyard...

R-7 #1530 + renumbered R-4 #722 as #1398, Scrapyard, 5/29/1977.

And so it goes...

-William A. Padron
["168 St Jamaica"]


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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 15:49:25 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 14:11:21 2012.

Wait a minute... both #1677 (ex-#825) and #1801 were painted in MTA silver/blue, and each of them survived the scrap torch. #825 is currently at the Trolley Museum of New York in Kingston, while #1801 is on static display at the New York State Museum in Albany.

-William A. Padron
["Broad St."]


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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 19:39:25 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 15:49:25 2012.

I meant in that photo. They all look grimey green/brown to me.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 19:41:01 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 15:39:51 2012.

I think the lowest numbered 100 cars or so that went East never got BMT signage nor fiberglass seats and blue & gray interior paint.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 19:42:21 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 15:39:51 2012.

Why were they scrapping Low-V's in the late 1970's ?

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by CJ on Sat Mar 31 20:54:44 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 19:42:21 2012.

Those were work cars most likely.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 21:10:43 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by CJ on Sat Mar 31 20:54:44 2012.

Maybe replaced by R12's off the 3rd Avenue el.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Mitch45 on Sat Mar 31 21:21:21 2012, in response to March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 12:22:11 2012.

RIP. Those cars had character. Will never forget them on the QB lines in the early '70s - the "straw" seats, the yellow bulbs, the porcelain-covered grab poles and handles, the "whusk-whusk-whusk" of the large exposed fans, the "FSHHH" of the pneumatically-powered doors opening at each station, the classic mooing of the motors as the consist picked up speed. We'll never see the likes of them again.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 21:50:49 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Mitch45 on Sat Mar 31 21:21:21 2012.

I just could never like them. I preferred the Standards from when I was 5 years old, but preferred the SMEE's to any of them.

Maybe is was the tiny door windows that I could not see out of.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by CJ on Sat Mar 31 22:01:30 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 21:10:43 2012.

According to what nycsubway.org has to be.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Apr 1 00:56:08 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 15:49:25 2012.

825 has been repainted recently.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by zac on Sun Apr 1 05:24:17 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 14:11:21 2012.

It looks like the 5th car down may have been silver and blue. Hard to tell, but that one looks lighter than the rest.

They were in pretty bad shape at the end. They should have retired them off the IND and not put them out east but the ex-IND lines were much busier at the time I guess.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Apr 1 05:25:45 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by zac on Sun Apr 1 05:24:17 2012.

What kind of problems did the R1/9 cars have at the end?

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by zac on Sun Apr 1 05:32:00 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Apr 1 05:25:45 2012.

They looked like crap by then. I wouldn't know operationally how they were. Like all soon to be retired cars they stopped maintenance, if there was any maintenance in the 70s.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Dan on Sun Apr 1 10:08:02 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Mitch45 on Sat Mar 31 21:21:21 2012.

Classic equipment. I rode the holiday train in December. Those mechanical sounds and even smells were great to experience again. The last ones in revenue service I rode were probably on the "K" back in 1976. IIRC by 1973 they were gone from the "F" line.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 1 10:14:36 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Apr 1 05:25:45 2012.

Don't think for one second that the R1/9's were anything in their last days like what you experience when you ride the Holiday Train for example.

They were poorly maintained and beat to sh**. The TA knew they were going to be scrapped, ENY in those days had shoddy maintance, and why spend money and time on cars that were on borrowed time? They were repaired with "bubble gum and glue".

Garbage in (to the barn) and garbage out.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 11:33:21 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by zac on Sun Apr 1 05:32:00 2012.

In 1969, I failed to see the improvement in replacing Standards with R7/9's, even if they were 15 years newer.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 1 12:00:00 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 11:33:21 2012.

Transit did!

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 12:08:06 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 1 12:00:00 2012.

Just like they junked the Triplexes in 1965, then a year later had R-1's falling part due to the St Louee Late-38's. Hylan/anti-BMT mentality at work.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 1 12:13:24 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 12:08:06 2012.

The R1's (Jamaica Yard assigned) were falling apart before the R38's came in.

The R38's were supposed to go to the Concourse for the D, but at the last minute went to Jamaica because they needed them more due to the R1 failures.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 12:26:37 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 1 12:13:24 2012.

I think Jamaica had the oldest and newest Arnines, Concourse got the batches in the middle.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 1 12:58:05 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 14:10:50 2012.

I'm surprised the unpainted ones lasted so long. Most of the R7/9 cars that got x-ferred to the eastern division in 1970 got the silver and blue stripe paint scheme (which, for this type, looked awful).

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 1 13:00:31 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 21:10:43 2012.

Most R12's were retired in 1981. But I bet those are old work motors anyway.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 1 13:02:21 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by zac on Sun Apr 1 05:24:17 2012.

From unification to the 1990's, the BMT Eastern Division was at the bottom of the totem pole as far as maintenance and rolling stock went. It's still baffles me that the Jamaica line got the new R16's in 1955.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 1 13:05:46 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 11:33:21 2012.

Standard size equipment is one reason i can think of. The IND cars also had signage more in tune with the IND style of route identification the whole system adopted by then.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 13:41:10 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 1 13:02:21 2012.

They were trying to ween people off the Queens IND. It didn't work. They should have put them on the Brighton or 4th Ave local from the getgo.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 1 14:07:15 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 13:41:10 2012.

I'd think they'd have put them in the IND, probably Jamaica.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by CJ on Sun Apr 1 14:08:29 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 1 14:07:15 2012.

It's safe to assume the R16s would of been better off on the IND.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 14:50:22 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by CJ on Sun Apr 1 14:08:29 2012.

It was not have been good practice to run them outside. The AA/BB/CC would have been a safe haven. I think they were too delicate to put up with the rigors of F service (which then terminated at 2nd Avenue).

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:43:58 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 15:39:51 2012.

Oh, the humanity!

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:45:36 2012, in response to March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 12:22:11 2012.

Those last runs on the Lonesome Larry and Curly rounded out prewar equipment retirements on the Three Stooges Division, as the last run by the BMT standards was on the Moe.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:47:30 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Mar 31 14:54:35 2012.

The R-10s should have kept the racing stripe scheme. That was my personal favorite.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:50:08 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Apr 1 12:13:24 2012.

Jamaica Yard ended up borrowing 32 R-16s and a group of condemned BMT standards were pulled off the scrapline and put back in service on the Broadway-Brooklyn local.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:52:08 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 1 13:05:46 2012.

The BMT standards were on their last legs by then, too. I read that some of their truck bolsters were so badly worn that there was concern about what would happen when they tried to stop. The train might stop, but the trucks might keep right on going.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:54:18 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by CJ on Sun Apr 1 14:08:29 2012.

Well, as a matter of fact, 50 of them ran on the Abbott for a few years.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 16:55:57 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:50:08 2012.

I remember that. My mother and I were coming back from PABT to Woodhaven Blvd one Saturday night, and instead of the ubiquitous 3 car GG R1-9, and immaculate 6 car R16 showed up with perfect IND signage.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 16:58:01 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:45:36 2012.

The East was hardly better off: the R16's went back there and promptly fell apart after 8 of abuse on the RR/ EE/ GG.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 17:15:39 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:54:18 2012.

They hated the salt air out to the Rockaways, at least the GE ones anyway.

The R10's must have caught up with them. When they mixed them, they must have bucked and jerked.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Apr 1 18:05:15 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 15:39:51 2012.

Just out of curiosity, were the number changes designed to scrap the cars based on condition as opposed to the model and date of manufacture?

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 1 19:10:05 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Apr 1 16:47:30 2012.

I agree. When I saw the R-10s in the racing stripe scheme, I was hoping the entire TA fleet would be painted like that but unfortunately, it never happened.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 1 19:13:28 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 17:15:39 2012.

It was only the WH R-16s that went to the IND.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by randyo on Sun Apr 1 19:16:40 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by Dan on Sun Apr 1 10:08:02 2012.

They were still a few on the F as late as 1976. I was the AM T/D at Church Av that year and I remember them on both the GG and the F.

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Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service

Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Apr 1 19:37:24 2012, in response to Re: March 31, 1977 - The Last R-1/9 Run In Service, posted by William A. Padron on Sat Mar 31 15:39:51 2012.

Did you notice the pantograph gates were removed, probably to wind up on R-40's and 42's ?

Bill Newkirk

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