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(1147090)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Railman718 on Tue Mar 27 22:05:27 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Train Dude on Tue Mar 27 22:04:26 2012.

Send Mines Back got a few tales to tell you very interesting time down here...

(1147094)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by R30A on Tue Mar 27 22:35:42 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by ClearAspect on Tue Mar 27 17:21:04 2012.

If the F is being done, the E will have to be done too. (and I would imagine, the M and R too, as it would be dumb not to do all 4 QB tracks at once)

(1147105)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by grand concourse on Tue Mar 27 23:51:28 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by J trainloco on Tue Mar 27 20:18:38 2012.

Dunno, all I remember was years ago an R143 crashed into the bumpers at 8th av. Not sure if that was the computer or t/o that was driving it at the time.

IMO, Either way, FB would be better if it was a 'regular station' (enters at normal speeds with a pair of tail tracks beyond the station) instead of those bumper blocks at the end in the station. A cross under at the middle of the platform, where the main entrance/fare zone area is, would be more convenient than to go all the way around the end of the platform if one needed the 5.

(1147123)

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Re: Little more info on the R-179 Bombardier contract

Posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 28 06:46:48 2012, in response to Re: Little more info on the R-179 Bombardier contract, posted by J trainloco on Tue Mar 27 20:14:06 2012.

J trainloco, have you even been on the 8th AVe Local during rush hours. It's stop and go all the was down to WTC and back up to 42nd St. Even with the (F) and (E) on the express tracks in Queens, there are time were your moving at a slow speed. Stopping at reds signal after red signal. The happen alot on even good day.

(1147124)

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Re: Little more info on the R-179 Bombardier contract

Posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 28 06:51:40 2012, in response to Re: Little more info on the R-179 Bombardier contract, posted by VictorM on Tue Mar 27 09:15:31 2012.

TO bad there no way of just bring them strait into the M line some were near Met. It would save alot of time, then having them transfer them the Linden Shop.

(1147125)

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Re: Little more info on the R-179 Bombardier contract

Posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 28 06:51:40 2012, in response to Re: Little more info on the R-179 Bombardier contract, posted by VictorM on Tue Mar 27 09:15:31 2012.

TO bad there no way of just bring them strait into the M line some were near Met. It would save alot of time, then having them transfer them the Linden Shop.

(1147132)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Lance52 on Wed Mar 28 09:11:27 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by grand concourse on Tue Mar 27 23:51:28 2012.

Dunno, all I remember was years ago an R143 crashed into the bumpers at 8th av. Not sure if that was the computer or t/o that was driving it at the time.

The operator suffered a seizure. And it was at Canarsie, not 8th Avenue. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, the computers weren't active at that point anyhow.

(1147147)

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Re: Little more info on the R-179 Bombardier contract

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Mar 28 09:47:05 2012, in response to Re: Little more info on the R-179 Bombardier contract, posted by VictorM on Tue Mar 27 09:15:31 2012.

If they deliver those cars the same way they delivered the R142's they would be hauled on flat cars via CP rail from Plattsburgh to Oak Point, then across the Hell Gate Bridge to Fresh Pond, then ramped down to track level and pulled by an MTA diesel to Linden Shop and from there north along the Canarsie line

Sounds like prime photo ops!!! :-)

Just one problem, CP long since discontinued service to NYC, as their round trip run, CP/D&H 416/417, failed to generate any significant traffic and loading to warrant it being run. CP now would probably bring them down to Selkirk, and transfer them off to CSX for the final run down.

Still, would be some prime photo ops!!

Does anyone here have any photos of the R-142s being brought in by train to NYC???

(1147174)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 28 11:47:06 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Lance52 on Wed Mar 28 09:11:27 2012.

Ok, but I also think that 8th av on the L should have tracks that extended past that station.

(1147175)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Mar 28 12:09:49 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 28 11:47:06 2012.

many other systems have terminals w/bumper blocks at the end of the platform.

(1147184)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 14:12:01 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by grand concourse on Tue Mar 27 19:03:02 2012.

It's still railroad NORTH and if and when the job is done that's how thew GO will read.

(1147185)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 14:19:42 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Train Dude on Tue Mar 27 19:22:51 2012.

That may be able to be addressed if there are sufficient OB couplers from the R-44s. OTOH, have all the R-62s and 68s been unitized with link bars or are there still H2Cs between cars within a unit?

(1147186)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 14:22:38 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by R30A on Tue Mar 27 22:35:42 2012.

If that were the case, then the R would have to be all R-160/179 and that would require the transfer of the remaining R-46s to other lines like possibly the C which would then require the C to be 600 ft trains.

(1147187)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 28 14:25:38 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Lance52 on Wed Mar 28 09:11:27 2012.

He is talking about one at 8th Ave. The T/O was at the controll, but he said that the Train took off even thouse he was on braking mode. The Black Box show this and saved his ass.

(1147188)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 14:25:48 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Lance52 on Wed Mar 28 09:11:27 2012.

There were 2 collisions. One was at 8 Av which involved an in service train and another was at Cnr which was in the yard.

(1147192)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Train Dude on Wed Mar 28 15:09:10 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 14:19:42 2012.

No - 9 R-68s and I'm not sure how many R-62As have been left as single car units.

(1147197)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 16:03:18 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Train Dude on Wed Mar 28 15:09:10 2012.

Wouldn't there be any H2C drawheads stockpiled somewhere in the event that replacements are needed?

(1147198)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 28 16:03:49 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Train Dude on Wed Mar 28 15:09:10 2012.

Can SIR handle 4 car trains of link-bar cars, or do the shops require them to be uncoupled ?

(1147200)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 28 16:31:51 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 28 16:03:49 2012.

They cut there train down. I think they run a few 5 car train druing the Rush Hours and cut train to 2 cars at night.

(1147201)

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MTA buying subway cars made Upstate NY; protects jobs

Posted by Gold_12TH on Wed Mar 28 16:43:23 2012, in response to And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by G1Ravage on Fri Mar 23 18:07:14 2012.

ALBANY, N.Y. - New York City's mass transit system will get more than 300 new subway cars in a contract that is expected to be a big economic boost for upstate's Plattsburgh area, where the deal will preserve 500 jobs.

Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced the $600 million contract with Montreal-based Bombardier on Wednesday. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority contract will provide stable, higher-paying manufacturing jobs for several years.

Cuomo said says the deal will keep 300 manufacturing jobs workers busy and support 200 more jobs from suppliers.

"We are one state and this shows how different regions of our state can support each other," Cuomo said. "We will continue to rebuild New York's vital infrastructure, creating jobs for hard-working New Yorkers and generating economic growth in all corners of the state."

The contract will provide work until late 2016, when the cars are due for delivery in New York City. Bombardier Chairman Laurent Beaudoin also announced plans for a new Plattsburgh assembly plant.

"This is great news for a great workforce and a tremendous economic boost for Plattsburgh and the North Country Region," said Sen. Elizabeth O'C Little, a Republican representing the North County.

The contract is part of two major statewide initiatives.

Earlier this week, Cuomo and legislative leaders agreed to fully fund the last three years of the MTA's five-year capital plan. The MTA plan will provide $13.1 billion for four massive projects now under way. The projects include new subway and rail cars, new energy-efficient buses, station rehabilitation, enhanced communications and signals, new rail yards, elevators and escalators, as well as major projects such as the Second Avenue subway.

The new "R179" cars will replace cars on the C Line that have been used since 1964. The new cars will have brighter lighting, better heat and air conditioning systems and digital voice announcements.

The average age of a subway car is 22 years; it will drop to under 20 when the new cars are operating.

The Bombardier contract is also the type of infrastructure and manufacturing objective planned for Cuomo's New York Works program. The plan pools capital borrowing and funds from state agencies and authorities, like the MTA, to focus on major regional jobs-producing plans.

The MTA deal will also be funded in part by $306 million in federal money.

Earlier this month, the state Labor Department released data that shows New York in a continued, but slow economic recovery. From January 2011 to January 2012, the number of private-sector jobs grew by 1.7 percent in New York state and by 2.3 percent in New York City. At the same time, unemployment rose from 8.2 percent to 8.3 percent in New York state and from 8.9 percent to 9.3 percent in New York City.

--- AP

(1147204)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Mar 28 16:59:46 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by grand concourse on Sun Mar 25 19:40:08 2012.

#1431, 1432, 1433 and 1434 also survived Union Square, albeit towards the rear of the train.

wayne


(1147206)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 28 17:21:03 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 28 16:31:51 2012.

I don't know if they still do the 2 car trains at nite anymore. They would have to drill out the 2 B cars and leave them on a siding. It is not like they are set up A-A-B-A.

(1147207)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Mar 28 17:24:28 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 14:22:38 2012.

How do you come to that conclusion? The R179 will be in 8 car sets. So even if they sent R46s to the C, they will only be getting back 4 car R179 sets at Jamaica. And even IF they did that, there wouldn't be enough R179s at Pitkin to totally replace Jamaica R46s, so they'll still be sending some R46s to Coney Island.

If they had to have all NTTs on Queens Blvd before the arrival of the R211, there are enough R160s at CI to accommodate Jamaica.

(1147219)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 18:42:14 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Kriston Lewis on Sun Mar 25 16:58:56 2012.

well..no. The way this is going..it seems like the C/J/M/Z/L is getting the new cars..but most likely it gonna be the C and J getting them..
in my opinion..they didnt order enough of them...should have been 600.

The R211 is up next on the up coming..bet dollar to doughnuts those are going to be split between Jamaica and 207/Pitkin for E/F/R/A service,removing the 46s.

Damn..

(1147220)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Lance52 on Wed Mar 28 18:43:30 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 14:25:48 2012.

When did the first one happen?

(1147222)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Lance52 on Wed Mar 28 18:43:56 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 28 14:25:38 2012.

I stand corrected.

(1147224)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Train Dude on Wed Mar 28 18:53:12 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 16:03:18 2012.

Unless some bureaucratic bean counter scrapped them. They were last see crated under the Belt Parkway

(1147230)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 28 20:35:53 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 14:22:38 2012.

I suppose they could get the 5 car sets, but I think the only way to get enough would be to take the R160s from Coney Island, provided the R211s aren't in by then.

(1147235)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Mar 28 21:02:43 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 18:42:14 2012.

The eastern Division is getting 92 cars to replace 50. The extra cars will go to new initiatives to, modestly, increase service over thataways. Additionally, the reduced spare ration on the C, and the 40 cars in 5 car sets, will allow extra service on the rest of the B divison, as needed.

Where would you have put 600 new cars?

(1147241)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 21:37:08 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by J trainloco on Wed Mar 28 21:02:43 2012.

?
i said they didnt order enough cars..600 should be enough to cover the loss of the 32/42/44's.

(1147242)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by R30A on Wed Mar 28 21:44:37 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 21:37:08 2012.

Remember that this is only replacing the R44 equivalents of R32s and R42s which are running. You could make the claim that all R32s and R42s were replaced by R160s(and 290 of those cars later replaced the R44s)

(1147246)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Mar 28 21:54:41 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by randyo on Sun Mar 25 19:09:19 2012.

I then suggest that you convey your thought to the TA.

(1147249)

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Re: The R-179 contract, ad nauseum

Posted by Widecab5 on Wed Mar 28 22:02:19 2012, in response to And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by G1Ravage on Fri Mar 23 18:07:14 2012.

All:

What a string of comments!

My eyes are bleary from browsing!!!

First, once again I must impart some off-list commentary from our good friend, T/O Raymond. It is edited only slightly and (as always) in no way reflects the opinion of THIS writer (messenger, really...).

Now if only Raymond could get his OWN password we wouldn't have to play these games! But, Subchat seems to refuse to provide him with a password of his own. So, here you all go:

Begin commentary from Raymond:

"I hope the TA will bring back the tranverse seating arrangement like the R16 seating style on the 60 foot cars, and the cab window will go all the way down like the R62/R142/R68 or slide side ways like the R38/R40 cause the R160 window is horrible it go half way down very hard for us to climb out/reach out the window to punch for a lineup when the punch box is all the way up on the ceiling! and to save money on car wash RCI labor bungies the springs bring back (which damages and deforms them). Wish they would bring the pantorgraph gate back to life like the R32s had on #1 & #2 end. They should send all 50 4 car units to ENY and 250 5 car unit to CIY, then transfer 250 R160 to the A then R46 to C or even better tranfer all 200 R68A to the C then leave the R46 on the A until R211 arrive."

(Widecab5 notes: The T/O's tend not to like R-68's or R-68A's--in all fairness the brakes can be difficult)...

End commentary from Raymond.

(1147250)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 22:05:34 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by R30A on Wed Mar 28 21:44:37 2012.

Yeah..you COULD say that..the MTA pulled a fast one with the "service requirements",thus reducing the system's overall need.

that being said..the the 300 cars attached will more than make up for the crap they pulled.

(1147256)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Mar 28 22:36:32 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 22:05:34 2012.

They didn't really reduce fleet size when they made the service cuts. Could you explain why you felt 600 cars would be necessary, and what crap you're referring to? I'm confused.

(1147257)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 28 22:42:14 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Mar 28 16:59:46 2012.

Yeah, but space will be at a premium. If they need at least 1 or 2 cars of each type, then there's no need to save all 5 cars in the set, imo.

(1147259)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 28 22:43:11 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by randyo on Wed Mar 28 14:12:01 2012.

understood, 'north' it is.

(1147260)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 22:50:09 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by J trainloco on Wed Mar 28 22:36:32 2012.

Can YOU explain how they DIDNT reduce the fleet size with the removal of the 44s or the elimination of the V and W lines?

(1147261)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 28 22:51:40 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by North-Easten T/O on Wed Mar 28 14:25:38 2012.

thanks.

(1147263)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Mar 28 22:57:17 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 22:50:09 2012.

The R44 retirement was made possible by keeping R32s and 40s in service, as well as by, yes, some modest reductions in fleet requirements. When the R160s were fully delivered, they were to replace all non NTT 60' cars. However, the R44s were junked instead and 272 60' cars were kept instead. While this does represent a reduction, because 272 60' cars doesn't equal 272 75' cars, it doesn't justify ordering 600 cars in the R179 order.

(1147264)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 28 22:57:38 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Lance52 on Wed Mar 28 18:43:30 2012.

8th av, 2004 based on this pic

(1147269)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 23:43:29 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by J trainloco on Wed Mar 28 22:57:17 2012.

you Did you say it "represented a reduction"..?,didn't you?

thats what i was driving at..also..i believe it does justify the means

A small portion[option ORDER R179A] of the order could go to SIRT,plus begin replacement of the 46's..

Again..I'm not new to this "hobby".


(1147275)

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Re: Staten Island North shore cars (Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....)

Posted by Wado MP73 on Wed Mar 28 23:53:47 2012, in response to Re: Staten Island North shore cars (Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....), posted by randyo on Tue Mar 27 14:23:46 2012.

Full length low-floor cars have existed for more than twenty years, either by having the wheels under longitudinal seats (London tube stock style) or having each wheel with its own separate axle instead of connecting ones. The latter is maintenance intensive though.

(1147323)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by Lance52 on Thu Mar 29 10:12:15 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 28 22:57:38 2012.

Thanks.

(1147336)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by J trainloco on Thu Mar 29 12:11:14 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 28 23:43:29 2012.

you Did you say it "represented a reduction"..?,didn't you?

There are presently 1662 R160 cars in the B division fleet. Before the R160s arrived, there were approximately 1600 60' cars (less, due to various accidents and retirements). The R160 represented an increase in fleet size over the current 60' fleet. As we all know, the decision scrap the R44s instead resulted in 222 R32s and 50 R42 sticking around. Because these cars stuck around, the R44s were retired instead, meaning that what should have been 272 60' cars scrapped became, roughly 260 75' cars scrapped. If we translated those 75' cars to 60' cars, NYCTA lost 325 60' cars. Therefore, scrapping the R44 instead resulted in a net increased loss of 53 cars.

So it appears I was wrong then. The scrapped fleet represented 1653 cars (again, not accounting for R32-42 losses to accidents), while the R160 fleet is 1662 cars. NYCTA increased fleet size with the R160 order!

A small portion[option ORDER R179A] of the order could go to SIRT,plus begin replacement of the 46's..

There are no more option orders for the R179.

Again..I'm not new to this "hobby".

Where did I say that? You asserted an opinion, and I asked you to explain why you felt that way. You still haven't explained why NYCT needs 600 R179s. Especially when the fleet has already grown in size, and will get even bigger with the R179 order.

And besides, why would I think you're new to this. I know you're OLD! ;-)

(1147358)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 29 15:41:11 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by Train Dude on Wed Mar 28 18:53:12 2012.

There you go!

(1147359)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 29 15:43:34 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by J trainloco on Wed Mar 28 17:24:28 2012.

Then what do you do with Jamaica's R-46s? If they had to replace CIY's R-160s, then CIY would have to become R-46 friendly.

(1147360)

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Re: The R-179 contract, ad nauseum

Posted by randyo on Thu Mar 29 15:50:33 2012, in response to Re: The R-179 contract, ad nauseum, posted by Widecab5 on Wed Mar 28 22:02:19 2012.

I agree about the cab window and the pantograph gates. I have no idea why the cab window could not have been made like the one on the R-68s since both cars are curved sided. As for the pantograph gates, the only reason that the 75 footers had to have springs was because the end excess on a 75 ft car presented clearance problems on curves and near switches. No such clearance problem exists with any of the IRT cars or with 60 ft BMT/IND cars so traditional style pantograph gates are no problem.

(1147364)

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Re: MTA buying subway cars made Upstate NY; protects jobs

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Mar 29 16:09:20 2012, in response to MTA buying subway cars made Upstate NY; protects jobs, posted by Gold_12TH on Wed Mar 28 16:43:23 2012.

Any car manufacturer selected will undoubtedly provide jobs in state as incentive for being rewarded contract.

I am a little surprised they decided to forgive Bombardier for all the R142 problems.

(1147370)

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Re: And the R-179 contract goes to....

Posted by grand concourse on Thu Mar 29 16:34:17 2012, in response to Re: And the R-179 contract goes to...., posted by J trainloco on Thu Mar 29 12:11:14 2012.

With the end of the V and the 'extension' of the M, you have less cars needed. So for current service there is probably 'enough' despite the demise of the R44s. With newer cars, reliability should be better and thus the need for fewer trains overall.

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