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| Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line (1101203) | |
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| (1101332) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 12 16:17:40 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 12 16:10:17 2011. Also, why was it at Euclid? Didn't they still have a few stations along the el before getting to the actual Rockaway Branch? |
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| (1101334) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 12 16:23:18 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 12 16:17:40 2011. There's a tower there. |
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| (1101336) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by Mellow One on Mon Sep 12 16:25:13 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by andy on Mon Sep 12 08:50:51 2011. Management of the Dyre Ave line was transferred to IRT control when the s/b fly-over track to connect the line to the White Plains Road Line was approved, whenever that occured. I can not remember exactly when construction of the fly-over began, maybe sometime in 1955.Prior to the s/b flyover opening for revenue ops in 1957, one had to go down stairs and walk over to the former NYWB concourse and go up to the "shuttle or dinky" n/b platform to board a Dyre Ave Line train. Prior to 1957, the two-track Dyre Ave line ended at a single track turn-back at the n/b platform at each end of the line, and that was the operation at Dyre Ave until that terminal was rebuilt in 2000? There was a single n/b track connection from the n/b White Plains Road line (local) track North of the 180th St station, see "http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?43063". My first ride on the line occured in 1952 or 3 in the monitor roof Hi-V cars. Fares (North of 180th St) were collected by the conductor with a fare box in the center of the car, see "http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?43573". Weather the line was operated by IND or IRT crews is an insignificant footnote in the history of the line, which is a much richer story in the context of NYC and Bronx Transit history. See "http://www.angelfire.com/fl/mainframeconsole/dyre_ave_line_memories/index.album/dyre-ave-line-memories?i=0". |
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| (1101345) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Sep 12 16:52:40 2011, in response to Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Joe Saitta on Mon Sep 12 01:54:08 2011. It was not built by the IND system...but I believe the IND operated it in its early days....that probably ended with its connection to the IRT in 1957. |
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| (1101347) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Sep 12 17:01:27 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Sep 12 09:38:03 2011. Also very interesting that this service guide shows the E making a switch over to the 6th Ave Line @ West 4th to end at B'way-Laffayette!! I never knew that! |
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| (1101355) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Mon Sep 12 17:26:29 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Mon Sep 12 14:27:08 2011. Going back to this particular 130-page volume of official information, the extension of the IND 78=Fulton Street route eastward was mentioned, but only via the eastern section of the BMT's Fulton Street Elevated on Liberty Avenue (nothing on 76th Street and beyond). There was also mention of plans/construction of the IND extension to 179th Street, the connection and rehabilitation of the BMT's Culver Line to the IND subway then terminating at Church Avenue, and the construction of the 60th Street Tunnel connecting the BMT and IND, among others.This appears to make the mystery of 76th Street Station even deeper, as by 1945 surely the tunnel to that area would have been built or at least mentioned, but it was not. While the exact routing plan for connecting the IND Fulton Street Line with the BMT Fulton Street Elevated was not given, it did mention the approximate cost of this connection ($3.650,000). I've just acquired a huge collection of trolley and subway books (and will be posting many of them on eBay for those interested - site name JPSPCC699), perhaps one of the official NYCTS volumes, if there are any more, might shed some light on other mysteries of the subway which always seem to appear from time-to-time. |
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| (1101363) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 12 17:48:53 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 12 15:05:07 2011. I remember work crews were different, so I was told by the IND old heads, and that was a separate unit entirely. Was it same as MOW? Sorta like south, east, north and all that? Never got anywhere near there in my time, but I was under the impression that the picks were their own division sorta like C division these days ... |
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| (1101369) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by jabrams on Mon Sep 12 18:34:58 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Sep 12 09:38:03 2011. It appears that the Franklin Ave. shuttle is missing from the servive info. |
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| (1101371) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Sep 12 18:38:42 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 12 16:17:40 2011. There was no other reasonable place to change crews. |
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| (1101372) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Sep 12 18:42:34 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 12 15:11:37 2011. The reasoning at the time was that the IRT crews suffered the most because of the loss of jobs on the 3rd Avenue el, the BMT second most because of the loss of Fulton and Culver jobs. Why the IND got any jobs at all is beyond me. They lost the Court Street Shuttle? LOL. |
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| (1101414) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Sep 12 19:52:47 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by andy on Mon Sep 12 12:11:33 2011. of course there was a conn.to the WPR line,how else did the EL cars get there?FYI:I`ve seen 1 construction photo taken at E180 st.showing a deck roof pushing a crane that was hard railing&laying 3rd rail into NY,W&B tracks.I,m guessing that it was a switchback that got the cars into E180st station[ny,w&b]any thoughts? |
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| (1101418) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Sep 12 20:01:40 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by G1Ravage on Mon Sep 12 02:38:21 2011. Operationally, the biggest difference between the IND/BMT and the IRT, other than the size of the cars, is which side of the tracks the trip stops are located on. Did the Dyre Ave. line ever have them on the operator's left? I doubt it.For that matter, what about early BMT lines that used IRT-width cars? I would guess that the Astoria line had trippers on the right until it was converted to BMT specs in 1949. How about the now-vanished part of the Myrtle Ave. el? |
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| (1101420) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Sep 12 20:02:50 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Joe Saitta on Mon Sep 12 17:26:29 2011. the last plans for the pitkin ave ext.were in 1940 when it was cut back from 229st& linden blvd.to 106st&linden blvd.by ww-2`s end all thoughts of expansion were dropped. |
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| (1101421) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon Sep 12 20:03:59 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by tunnelrat on Mon Sep 12 20:02:50 2011. sorry,I meant to say 106st&pitkin ave. |
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| (1101433) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Sep 12 20:22:50 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Joe on Mon Sep 12 15:34:33 2011. "Not only did the Hagstrom maps carry their copyright notice, but they also could be spotted for unique marks (a guard against unauthorized reproduction), such as a red tail at the end of some IND routes, suggesting extensions in the future."giggle |
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| (1101481) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by andy on Mon Sep 12 23:38:29 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by tunnelrat on Mon Sep 12 19:52:47 2011. I meant to say "revenue track connection" - obviously there had to be a non-revenue connection, probably a single track. But the Dyre was an IND line officially till 1957, though the public was never informed of that and didn't care anyway. |
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| (1101646) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by B1bus on Tue Sep 13 19:54:56 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Mon Sep 12 10:17:25 2011. Is that why there is a small exhibit on the RR located inside the mall? |
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| (1101692) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Sep 14 02:09:46 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 12 17:48:53 2011. Picks were their own but whenever there was a Rockaway Div pick, a notice would go out to the other divisions alerting those crews that they could submit a G2 to be allowed to pick a run on the Rockaway Div if their seniority permitted. |
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| (1101693) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Sep 14 02:11:53 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by SLRT on Mon Sep 12 18:42:34 2011. As I mentioned in my post, the original intent was to allow only BMT and IND crews to pick it since the BMT lost the Fulton St el but the IRT crews butted in and got an allotment of jobs. |
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| (1101694) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Sep 14 02:13:27 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by SLRT on Mon Sep 12 18:38:42 2011. Correct. There was a dispatcher and crew quarters at Euclid but nothing anywhere else along the Fulton structure that would have been suitable for crew changes. |
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| (1101695) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Sep 14 02:18:32 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Sep 12 17:01:27 2011. I don't recall it ever running like that. Although the E did run to Bway/Laff at the time, the F not the D, ran to Church Av and the D ran to Hudson Term. There was also an IND service guide from about the same period in some of the R-1/9s that showed a HH Fulton St Lcl operating between Court St and Bway/ENY even though the HH shuttle between Court and Hoyt ceased operation even before the IND was extended past Rockaway Av. The same map also showed the IND open to Euclid which it was not. |
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| (1101696) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Sep 14 02:23:06 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 12 16:07:49 2011. The merger of the BMT and IND was in the works long before the creation of the MTA and in fact did take place under the pre MTA NYCTA. |
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| (1101698) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Sep 14 02:27:04 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Sep 12 20:01:40 2011. The Dyre Line had the stop arms on the right (IRT) side since it used IRT cars. The Astoria Line also had trippers on the right since it was an IRT line over which the BMT only had trackage rights and had to share trackage with IRT cars. The Myrtle Av El as well as all the BMT els that used narrow wooden cars had to have the stop arms on the left (BMT) side since they shared trackage with BMT steel cars. |
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| (1101702) | |
Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Sep 14 02:54:10 2011, in response to Re: Question - Dyre Avenue Line, posted by randyo on Wed Sep 14 02:09:46 2011. Ah ... OK. I recall being told that bidding onto the rock was hard to do and was a completely separate pick from all the others, like C division these days. Now it makes sense what I'd heard ... thanks! :) |
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