|
|
| Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights (1357124) | |||
 |
|||
| Home > SubChat | |||
|
[ Read Responses | Post a New Response | Return to the Index ] |
|
||
|
Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights |
|
|
Posted by Michael549 on Wed Jun 24 03:02:15 2015, in response to Re: M to West 4th on Weekends/Late Nights, posted by Joe V on Tue Jun 23 18:07:30 2015. From a previous message:"You know full well most M train riders are headed to midtown, which is why it was extended to Essex in the 1st place. so when you say "very few people would benefit", it hardly makes any sense. ..." I believe that while weekend M-train ridership is important, that there are more riders on the D-train and the F-train that would be affected by the proposed changes at West 4th Street, and on Central Park West. I've reviewed the MTA's Average Weekend (Saturday + Sunday) Subway Ridership for the years 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 -and I've realized a few interesting facts. ------------ The Bronx Portion Of The D-Train: The D-train in its Bronx segment of stations handles more riders than the M-train on the weekends. Just counting the D-train stations from 155th Street-Polo Grounds to 205th Street-Norwood, and leaving out the Yankee Stadium station, the D-train in 2009 carried 91,168 riders, in 2010 - 93,988 riders; in 2011 - 95,572 riders; in 2012 - 96,752 riders; in 2013 - 103,911 riders; and in 2014 - 107,717. During the weekends the D-train alone handles the ridership of its Bronx segment starting north of the 155th Street-Polo Grounds station. If HALF of the ridership at the Yankee Stadium station could be attributed to the D-train, that would easily add 15,960 riders in 2009 to 18,088 additional riders in 2014 on the weekends. In just the Bronx segment alone the D-train carries about 120,000-plus people every weekend, a substantial amount of people. I have not attempted to figure out how many riders the D-train handles at the 145th Street, 125th Street, 59th Street-Columbus Circle stations, or the stations along the Sixth Avenue segment. I'd still say that the D-train is carrying a substantial amount of people on the weekends. I'd use 150,000 folks as a guess-estimate between the Bronx and Midtown at least for the weekends. ------------ The Brooklyn Portion Of The D-Train: The Brooklyn portion of the D-train includes some heavy ridership stations such as Atlantic Avenue/Barclay Center, 36th Street-Fourth Avenue, the New Utrecht Avenue/62nd Street station, and the Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue complex. Attributing the weekend ridership at those transfer stations to the D-train is problematic. In 2009 those stations combined handled 78,631 riders on the weekend, and by 2014 about 103,768 riders were handled on the weekends at these transfer stations. The D-train handles a portion of these riders, but determining exactly what portion is debate-able. (Dividing the ridership number by the number of train routes served at that station is a very rough estimate.) All of the 11 Brooklyn stations that the D-train serves by itself in 2009 handled 47,465 riders on the weekends; in 2010 - 46,702 riders; 39,683 riders in 2011; 42,056 riders in 2012; 56,883 riders in 2013; and 57,955 riders in 2014. The D-train handles a substantial amount of riders on the weekends. Along the Brooklyn portion of the line, I am guessing that between Brooklyn and Manhattan that about 65-80,000 riders is carried by the D-train each weekend. ------------ The Weekend Central Park West Segment: There have been a couple of ideas floating around that want to a) extend the M-train to 145th Street, or to make the D-train local along Central Park West. This is usually meant to mean that the local stations between 59th Street-Columbus Circle and 145th Street would receive more service than what the current C-train provides on the weekends. The following weekend ridership numbers for the 72nd, 81st, 86th, 96th, 103rd, 110th-Cathedral Parkway, 116th, and 135th Street stations were totaled, since these stations are serviced by the C-trains on the weekends. On the weekends in 2009 these stations handled 67,345 riders, 73,236 riders in 2010, 70,227 riders in 2011, 73,576 riders in 2012, 77,483 riders in 2013, and by 2014 78,531 riders. A pure seat of the pants estimate that includes the express stations at 125th Street and 145th Street would suggest that the C-train handles 80,000-plus riders on the weekends. In comparison, the nearby #1 train handled between the 66th Street to 145th Street stations 157,879 weekend riders in 2009, about 146,351 riders in 2010, 160,506 riders in 2011, 169,093 riders in 2012, about 170,825 riders in 2013, and lastly 159,054 riders in 2014. Needless to say, but the 72nd Street and 96th Street stations handled a combined 89,967 riders in 2009 and up to 113,292 weekend riders by 2014. This is easily double or more riders than what is carried on Central Park West. A pure seat of the pants estimate that includes the express stations would put the weekend west-side #1 ridership along a "Central Park West-like region" at easily 200,000 riders on the weekends. This number is very much higher than any of the weekend ridership numbers reported in this message. Funny how there are never or rarely any proposals or debates to beef up weekend service on the #1 line! Considering the amount of debate and consternation, you'd think that the Central Park West stations were the most used! THEY ARE NOT! I think that if we're going to propose ideas that beef up service it should be at the stations that have heavy ridership allowing the expensive benefits go to plenty of riders, not to fewer riders. And just for the sake of it - did you notice that the D-train Bronx section carries more riders on the weekends than the Central Park West segment? Meaning that substantial numbers of D-trains riders would be affected by making the D-train local. Proposals to improve subway service should not make the subways WORSE for substantial numbers of people! ----------- The Weekend C-train In Brooklyn: It is rare to see proposals that C-train service get beefed up or made more frequent appear on this forum. That not only would help C-train riders on the westside but also in Brooklyn! At the 9 local Brooklyn stations, in 2009 the C-train handled 40,561 riders - that number went up to 51,050 riders by 2014. We should also note that the Broadway Junction, Euclid Avenue, High Street, Hoyt-Schermerhorn, Jay Street-MetroTech, Nostrand Avenue and Utica Avenue stations together added an additional 88,560 riders in 2009 up to 113,244 riders by 2014. Now how to properly apportion those riders between the A, C, F and G, J, L and S trains might be difficult. A pure seat of the pants guess-estimate could easily say that the C-train carries about 60,000 riders each weekend. This means that the C-train easily carries a good number of riders on both its Brooklyn (about 60,000 riders weekends) and its Central Park West segments (about 80,000 riders weekends)! The Central Park segment has a slight bit of higher ridership numbers compared to the Brooklyn local stations of the C-train. However the #1 train on the west-side carries MORE THAN TWICE AS MANY riders overall. Transit improvement dollars are limited - now just where would you spend your limited funds for the most bang per buck? ------------ The Weekend M-train Segment: The M-train segment on the weekends (its Broadway Brooklyn and Queens segment) handles a MUCH lower amount of riders compared to the Bronx segment of the D-train, or the Brooklyn segment of the D-train. I'd look at the numbers for the F-train at a later date. The segment of the M-train from Central Avenue to Metropolitan Avenue as listed in the MTA's Average Weekend (Saturday + Sunday) Subway Ridership for the years handled 20,823 riders in 2009; 14,928 riders in 2010; 21,157 riders in 2011; 15,966 riders in 2012; 13.844 riders in 2013 and 18,717 riders in 2014. These numbers are WAY lower than C-train Brooklyn local only stations handles on the weekends! Please note that I left out the Myrtle Avenue-Wyckoff Station that the L and M share. While some of these M-train stations were closed for renovation work, the span of time still allows trends to discerned. If even HALF of the ridership of the Myrtle Avenue-Wyckoff Station were attributed to the M-train, that would add an additional 9,389 riders in 2009 to 13,673 riders in 2014. I do not KNOW the breakdown of riders at that station that would choose an M-train over an L-train, or an L-train over a M-train on the weekends. I suspect that some or many M-train riders transfer to/from the L-train at that station. The segment of the J and M trains from the Broadway/Myrtle Avenue station to the Marcy Avenue stations handled 38,928 riders in 2009; 42,355 riders in 2010; 45,406 riders in 2011; 44,347 riders in 2012; 45,817 riders in 2013; and 44,029 riders in 2014. (I believe that riders at these stations would catch the first train that came by. Currently the weekend M-train was to end at Essex Street, but in prior years only the J-train traveled this segment on the weekends.) Adding both segments together means that the J and M trains handled 59,751 riders in 2009 up to 62,746 riders in 2014. The figure of 66,563 riders in 2011 is the highest amount of riders carried by these segments over the weekends, and could be referred to as the "best weekend ridership". These numbers are about what the C-train handles at its Brooklyn local only stations on the weekend! (Please note that I'm leaving out completely the portion of the J-train from Kosciuszko Street to Archer Avenue, because this discussion so far has centered on M-train usage and the benefits TO M-train riders. On the weekends the J-train travels to/from the same main-line stations as the M-train, offering no real benefit for riders transferring to/from the F-train at Essex/Delancey Street. In fact the J-train by traveling further downtown offers transfers to other eastside transit lines and the Canal Street complex.) The same table also shows that the Essex/Delancey Street station handled 25,036 weekend riders in 2009, and by 2014 only 32,364 riders. That is a good amount of folks but that number has to be distributed to the weekend F, J and M lines, and it does not account for transfers among those lines at that station. ----------- The Bottom Line: Even the best weekend ridership of the J and M trains - 66,563 riders in 2011 (that covers the main portion of the weekend Brooklyn & Queens segment of the M-train) is substantially LESS than the lowest ridership of the Bronx segment of the D-train at 123,087 riders without counting the Yankee Stadium station. The bottom line is simple - the D-train simply carries MUCH MORE weekend riders than the weekend J & M-train segment. Even if one looked at only the Brooklyn portion of the D-train, and compared its "best weekend" number with the "best number" weekend of the J/M segment - that would mean 66,563 riders in 2011 compared to about 80,000 riders on the D-train. Again using the best weekend ridership of the J and M trains - 66,563 riders in 2011, the amount of weekend C-train riders with both its Brooklyn and CPW segments still handles MORE weekend ridership than the J/M segment studied. It is highly debatable that extending the M-train to CPW will be helping the C-train in terms of ridership numbers. As I said WAY MORE D-train riders would be impacted by the suggested changes and expansion of the M-train to West 4th Street then would benefit by riding the M-train. Changes to the D-train's operation would affect MORE riders than what the J/M trains carry - the basic point that I made earlier! I simply do not have the resources to be more precise about the D-train weekend ridership segments. I have produced the evidence that supported my contention that MORE riders on the D-train would be affected by either one or both of the proposed changes. In addition, while I have not looked at how the proposed changes would affect F-train riders - it is plain to see that the F-train carries a substantial weekend ridership. It would be difficult to believe that the weekend F-train ridership would be lower that the Brooklyn/Queens M-train segment. Hence substantial numbers of F-train riders would be affected by the delays in service that switching D-trains into and out of the pathway of F-trains would entail. So yes, very fewer people riding the weekend M=train would benefit from the proposed ideas, while the large substantial numbers of riders on the C-train, D-train, and the F-train would be affected by the proposals offered so far. Just being me! Mike |
|
|
|