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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:40:58 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 22:37:08 2012.

Is there a link for that article here?

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:41:28 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 22:36:28 2012.

I found the article but I see no mention of a second warning. Looks like the AP is in on the RW spin. This is what it says:

It continued: "When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home."



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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:45:25 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 22:40:00 2012.

That's not how the call went exactly. The operator asked him where he should have the police meet him, but in Zimmerman's response it's obvious that he's still following Trayvon.

I've actually called 911 in a somewhat similar circumstance after someone hit my car and took off. I followed her just to get a license plate number and they said something similar. Something like "We don't want you to do that." I think that they say it both for the callers safety and to cover themselves legally. But it's not worded as an order.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:46:47 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:40:58 2012.

link

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody


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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:47:23 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:46:47 2012.

Thank you.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:49:23 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:45:25 2012.

And since she ain't dead, nobody down over it. That's the point.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:49:49 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:46:47 2012.

Was about to post that myself ... thanks!

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 22:50:12 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:41:28 2012.

I see that as 2 warnings. First, "we don't need you to follow him" and second "meet the responding officer". The second one is quite clear: "meet the responding officer" before proceeding. He wasn't supposed to go near Mr Martin without police present. he did. He alone is responsible.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 22:50:29 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:41:28 2012.

I see that as 2 warnings. First, "we don't need you to follow him" and second "meet the responding officer". The second one is quite clear: "meet the responding officer" before proceeding. He wasn't supposed to go near Mr Martin without police present. he did. He alone is responsible.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:50:39 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:49:49 2012.

I seen nothing about a second order in that article there kevin...

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:53:14 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:49:23 2012.

But hypothetically if she pulled over and some dude jumped out and ran at me with a tire iron and I shot him should I go to jail?

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:53:30 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 22:50:29 2012.

I see that as 2 warnings. First, "we don't need you to follow him" and second "meet the responding officer".

Eh im sorry i dont see it that way....

Ah yeah i can see this being a dozy....

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 22:56:30 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:38:49 2012.

If it results in loss of life, then there is responsibility to be taken.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:56:33 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:50:39 2012.

I don't believe I'm the one who was inferring that. Perhaps the phrasing in the report as Easy posted:

It continued: "When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home."

... might have been what lead bingbong to say that. I wasn't even aware of the part about an officer meeting him, I only heard "we don't need you to do that" as I had commented. Either way though, he didn't break it off and now he's holding a G-2 over it.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:57:19 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:56:33 2012.

"holding a G-2 over it."

Whoops ... meant "DAN" over it ...

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:58:33 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 22:50:12 2012.

But they aren't quoting the exact conversation. My recollection is that the operator actually asked him where he was and then asked if the officer should meet him there. Zimmerman mentioned some other meeting place and then said that he didn't know yet and would let him know. There was no "meet the responding officer before proceeding". At least not in those words although it was certainly implied. But then Zimmerman made it clear that he was still following and he never clearly said not to.

This is based on my hearing the tape one time a couple of weeks ago. I haven't really kept up with the case. If I have the conversation wrong please correct me.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:58:53 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:53:14 2012.

Depends on the circumstances and your local DA. It's quite possible ... doesn't Cali have some strong-ass "stalking" laws too?

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:59:50 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:56:33 2012.

More "Grey Areas" Kevin..

Sigh...

Lets see how this turns out i just dont see it as two warnings but One...

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 23:00:21 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:53:30 2012.

What matters now is how it is presented to the jury, along with what corroborating evidence nobody here knows about. We all know the conversation was taped. We'll hear the whole thing at trial.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Apr 12 23:01:44 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 22:50:12 2012.

hahahhahah

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 23:02:47 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 23:00:21 2012.

What you said sounds much better than the "What Ifs" thats going back and forth here dont you agree?

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 23:03:27 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 22:58:33 2012.

My statement read as "meet the responding officer" (the quote) before proceeding (the obvious). Your quoting me there distorts what I wrote.

Dispatchers use a particular language for legal reasons.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 23:04:34 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:53:30 2012.

Been biting my own tongue on other charges they could have played with that can dome down at the drop of a hat: "obstruction of justice" and "interfering with an investigation" ... but then those are NY crimes. "Disorderly conduct" is another just to fill out that complaint form onto a second sheet. :)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 23:04:53 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 23:02:47 2012.

In reality, that's what it is. Only a small amount of the story is known so far,even after the brief was released today.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 23:05:39 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 22:58:53 2012.

lol. I wouldn't know about the stalking laws. I guess that I don't know the answer to the hypothetical either, but I strongly suspect that I would not be charged in California given those circumstances. Other states could be different.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 23:07:35 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 23:03:27 2012.

Sorry. It was unintentional. But my point stands. You are quoting the legal brief, but I don't think that's the actual conversation.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 23:09:00 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 23:05:39 2012.

All depends on the DA and how the cops write you up no matter where you live. If you piss them off, there's always some way to write you up.

As to this thing though, that ain't the major charge but as I'd said back in the beginning, they weren't going to let that slide. And they didn't.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 23:12:31 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 22:59:50 2012.

I only knew about one as well ... I'm only interested in what really happened there and hopefully stopping something like that from happening again. Bad guys deserve a whooping, some kid minding his own business and not bothering anybody not ...

But I suppose "we" want to talk about anything but that. :(

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 23:13:18 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 23:07:35 2012.

No problem. We just won't know until the entire recording is released at trial.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 23:18:56 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 23:13:18 2012.

Hasn't it already been released? I assumed that the news shows were editing it to get to the important bits of a lengthy call. Are you saying that the police department edited it before releasing it?

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Apr 12 23:20:07 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 23:18:56 2012.

I suspect that you already know the answer to that question.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 12 23:22:38 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 23:18:56 2012.

yes.

trayvon martin's family fought to get the tapes released. it was when they got the tapes that Al Sharpton started playing them on his show and the case took off.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 23:23:03 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Train Dude on Thu Apr 12 23:20:07 2012.

Go play with your trains. Adults are talking.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Apr 13 21:17:32 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Apr 11 23:23:56 2012.

Did the Turtle steal your handle?

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 14 02:24:55 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Apr 13 21:17:32 2012.

Do you have any new material?

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 14 09:50:06 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 18:43:51 2012.

Zimmerman might plea bargain if a manslaughter charge is included, because he actually might get convicted of that.

That should soothe the masses. If not, then nothing reasonable can be done to prevent rioting.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Sat Apr 14 11:02:22 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 14 09:50:06 2012.

I believe the arrest and trial was enough to do that. Some individuals will undoubtedly be unhappy sans conviction on the most serious charge, but the fact that once properly investigated, sufficient evidence for indictment, arrest and trial was found (opposed to the locals whitewashing) and that the process is now underway will mitigate any sort of mass violence.

Regardless of the outcome, the best thing Florida could do is fix that stupid law so that vigilantes will not have license for another crime like this. Defend your home and property if one must with a deadly (more likely deadly to one's own family members) weapon, sure, but not permit claims of self-defense after tresspassing. Zimmerman was NOT on a scheduled neighborhood watch patrol that evening, he was headed to Home Depot. Let's not lose sight of that.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Fred G on Sat Apr 14 11:08:31 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 14 09:50:06 2012.

Things like this need to go through the process rather than just some police looking it over and making a determination based on one guy's sayso.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 14 11:09:43 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 14 09:50:06 2012.

Yup, that's exactly what I think will eventually happen. Zimmerman will cop to manslaughter, and do his 15 years.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 14 11:17:19 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 14 11:09:43 2012.

You think that he would plead guilty and serve 15 years rather than take his chances at a trial? Is that what you would do? It sounds very stupid to me. I can't imagine that he would plead guilty to any offense that would require that he serve more than a couple of years. According to some (Dershowitz for example) he has a decent chance of getting the charges dismissed outright.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Fred G on Sat Apr 14 11:18:21 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 14 11:09:43 2012.

I think he'd do a lot better if he goes to trial.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 14 11:20:01 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 14 11:17:19 2012.

Risking a possible murder conviction and life without parole is taking a hell of a chance, isn't it?

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 14 11:21:53 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Fred G on Sat Apr 14 11:18:21 2012.

If Zimmerman goes to trial, he might end up being convicted of murder, and getting life without parole. However, I think if Zimmerman does go to trial, the jury will split the baby, convict him of manslaughter, and he'll get 20 years. Pleading out will shave five years or so off of that...

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 14 11:26:50 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 14 11:20:01 2012.

This is far from an open and shut case and as I've been saying all along I think that it is unlikely that he would be convicted by a jury. In Florida 2nd degree murder has a minimum 25 year sentence and he would have to serve 85% of that, which is 21 years. It would be unreasonable to not take a chance at trial. Legal analysts are already saying that the most that he would be convicted of is manslaughter, yet suggest that he will plead to that without a trial.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 14 11:27:12 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 14 11:20:01 2012.

This is far from an open and shut case and as I've been saying all along I think that it is unlikely that he would be convicted by a jury. In Florida 2nd degree murder has a minimum 25 year sentence and he would have to serve 85% of that, which is 21 years. It would be unreasonable to not take a chance at trial. Legal analysts are already saying that the most that he would be convicted of is manslaughter, yet you suggest that he will plead to that without a trial.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 14 11:29:46 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 14 11:21:53 2012.

If Zimmerman goes to trial, he might end up being convicted of murder, and getting life without parole.

For 2nd degree murder?!? There's just no way that would happen. He would have to be a career criminal with many previous convictions for violent crimes.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 14 11:35:47 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Fred G on Sat Apr 14 11:18:21 2012.

I know nothing about law, but common sense tells me that he would only plead to something like reckless endangerment and some short sentence. I'm not sure that he would even do that as so many are saying that the case against him is pretty weak. I think that Zimmerman is guilty and murdered Trayvon, but what I think and what can be proven are two different things.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Sat Apr 14 11:37:32 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 14 11:26:50 2012.

Pleading guilty to manslaughter would probably be the best he can do. Nobody knew about the phone call Mr Martin was making to his girlfriend at the time. That established what actually happened, Zimmerman's pursuit of Mr Martin and what ensued to the final altercation when the call went dead. It blows Zimmerman's story away.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 14 11:38:47 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 14 11:27:12 2012.

If I were in Zimmerman's shoes, I wouldn't take my chances at trial, unless I had an extremely strong defense, which Zimmerman does not.

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Railman718 on Sat Apr 14 11:39:12 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 14 11:35:47 2012.

I think that Zimmerman is guilty and murdered Trayvon

Um theres that word that caused such a ruckuss here ...

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