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(930522)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Fred G on Wed Apr 11 23:48:46 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by ClearAspect on Wed Apr 11 18:21:50 2012.

I think the Prosecution knew what to charge him with and there are too many loose ends that we don't know about, so second guessing the charges is moot. Besides, I think you're forgetting that second degree murder covers crimes of passion and impulsive killing. Maybe not.

I'm looking forward to this being over but also looking forward to court, mostly because people have to testify under oath and can't lie without being severely penalized.

your pal,
Fred

(930541)

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Re: Special Prosecutor: Zimmerman Charged With Murder

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 12 01:04:28 2012, in response to Re: Special Prosecutor: Zimmerman Charged With Murder, posted by Jeff Rosen on Wed Apr 11 19:11:12 2012.

Joann Chesimard???

Yeah. Her.


(930542)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 12 01:08:03 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 11 18:50:20 2012.

The Florida presser was over. They should not be expected to go to Al Sharpton's presser.

JayZeeBMT said that Fox did not cover the Florida presser and he was wrong. He assumed that they would not.

(930543)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 12 01:10:19 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 18:45:17 2012.

Yes. I saw Angela(gotta figure she's got some Italian in her) on Fox News and CNN. I played with the remote to see if it was a pool feed.

Fox News did not cover Al Sharpton. Nothing wrong with that.

(930548)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 12 03:12:47 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 18:37:38 2012.

You're wrong.

Fox News covered it.

Why did you say this?

CSX sponsored Hannity tonight on Fox News.

(930565)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by TERRapin station on Thu Apr 12 08:25:31 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 11 18:31:30 2012.

Bump...

(930567)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 08:31:01 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by ClearAspect on Wed Apr 11 18:17:05 2012.

GREAT POST!!!

(930607)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Apr 12 10:14:46 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 11 22:35:44 2012.

No they wont, because the charges were dismissed/expunged so they CANNOT be used as a factor unless they want to defame him and then the defense can say that the prosecution doesn't have evidence so they're trying to make the jury hate him and thus get the charges dropped completely.

(930628)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 11:30:55 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by ClearAspect on Thu Apr 12 10:14:46 2012.

Wrong. They will instruct the jury not to consider his past arrests if necessary.That isn't going to cause them to throw the charges out.

fact is,this case isn't about the fact that Zimmerman shot this unarmed young man. He admits to that. It's about *why*.

(930717)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Apr 12 14:03:58 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 11:30:55 2012.

Wrong, it will not be mentioned

(930722)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Fred G on Thu Apr 12 14:09:06 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by ClearAspect on Thu Apr 12 10:14:46 2012.

They do show a pattern tho. My theory is that Zimmerman is a hothead and loses control easily.

your pal,
Fred

(930738)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 14:29:57 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Train Dude on Thu Apr 12 14:03:58 2012.

Fine if it isn't. If it is, it will be sustained on objection. The jury will be instructed to disregard.

(930739)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by AlM on Thu Apr 12 14:30:11 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Fred G on Thu Apr 12 14:09:06 2012.

If he has convictions they can usually be submitted as evidence. If he has arrests that did not lead to convictions, then not.

(930743)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Fred G on Thu Apr 12 14:32:10 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by AlM on Thu Apr 12 14:30:11 2012.

True, and they're only charges as the cases were closed without convictions.

your pal,
Fred

(930745)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Apr 12 14:32:52 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 14:29:57 2012.

The DA will never mention it.

(930746)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by ClearAspect on Thu Apr 12 14:33:04 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Fred G on Wed Apr 11 23:48:46 2012.

Prosecution said the same thing about the Casey Anthony trial too...

(930754)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Train Dude on Thu Apr 12 14:37:09 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by ClearAspect on Thu Apr 12 14:33:04 2012.

I think the Casey Anthony trial should have taught people to wait until all the evidence is heard and measured in the context of the laws of that state. Even Nancy Grace had her convicted and was planning Casey's last meal.

(930974)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Fred G on Thu Apr 12 19:49:41 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by ClearAspect on Thu Apr 12 14:33:04 2012.

Point taken but this is a different case and prosecutors do learn from these cases.

your pal,
Fred

(930980)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:03:12 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Fred G on Thu Apr 12 19:49:41 2012.

Just heard that the basis for the second degree murder charge is ...






(wait for it)





"refusing to back off when the 911 operator told him 'we don't need you to do that.'"

(930981)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 20:03:52 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:03:12 2012.

Oh chit please say you are kidding...

(930986)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:06:10 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 20:03:52 2012.

Associated Press ... just came over the wire.

(930987)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 20:06:53 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Railman718 on Thu Apr 12 20:03:52 2012.

Like it or not, it establishes intent.

(930990)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:09:22 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:06:10 2012.

Here ya go:

Prosecutors: Zimmerman ignored warning to back off

(930994)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Apr 12 20:17:04 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:09:22 2012.

aaahhhhh the poor little baby !!
waaaaaaaaa

(930995)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:19:13 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Apr 12 20:17:04 2012.

Gotta love our righties here, calling bullshit on what I *knew* was going to be a major factor ... but fuck me. :)

(930996)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Apr 12 20:22:07 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:19:13 2012.

see the crying for zimmerman ? it is out of control !
i bet there are people sending this criminal money

(930999)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:24:30 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Apr 12 20:22:07 2012.

Well ... state of Florida has filed their charges, guy's in jail, time for justice to happen. Annoys the shit out me personally seeing everybody choosing sides and turning this into a political football.

Lessee what happens now.

(931001)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:26:04 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:09:22 2012.

I've been pointing out that Zimmerman's refusal to back off after being instructed to do so by the 911 operator showed intent, in post after post after post...the trolls attacked me on that in post after post after post.

Think they'll actually admit they were wrong about this?

(931003)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:28:45 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:19:13 2012.

How do you think I felt, getting shouted down here by the trolls, after I repeatedly pointed out that Zimmerman's disregard of the 911 operator's instructions NOT to follow Trayvon was evidence of extreme intent...

(931005)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:32:16 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:26:04 2012.

Heh. I did as well and got the same response. No apologies needed though for me, I knew what brainpower I was dealing with and so doesn't matter. I knew it would be a factor and turns out it was.

Ya gotta learn to ignore the idjits and just make deadline. Next! (grin)

(931006)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:33:25 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:28:45 2012.

Son ... always remember these words, "love me, hate me, read me." :)

I consider the words by folks pissed off at mine as time well spent. You'll get used to it. Heh.

(931008)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:40:23 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:32:16 2012.

I've done quite a bit re Trayvon in the past few weeks. A pic of me at the Million Hoodie March in Union Square even found its way into People magazine. I'm still incredulous to this day that Zimmerman was allowed to walk free for 45 days--complete with gun--for killing this kid.

I knew at the beginning something was wrong when it came out that Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon even after being told not to. You and I both picked up on that. But the self-appointed experts here kept babbling on about how "911 operators cannot issue orders", and "those instructions are not legally binding".

But y'know what? In NYC, Call Receiving Operators (CROs), who take 911 calls, are considered to be agents of the NYPD here, and I figured that would also hold true down in the little ol' South, too...which, apparently, it does. Too bad all pointing that out got us was ridicule from the usual suspects...

(931009)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 20:43:55 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:26:04 2012.

All they ever did was tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Look who's discussing this now.....

Between refusing to follow the dispatcher's instructions and the evidence revealed by Mr Martin's girlfriend during their phone call, they can prove intent.

(931010)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:44:29 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:33:25 2012.

The Village Voice where I am an occasional contributor, used to have a wonderful ad campaign that I thought was one of the best ever done by a newspaper. Their commercials ended with: "Some people swear by us...some people swear at us...but they ALL read the Village Voice. The campaign worked so well that the Voice is free, to this day, its costs and profits being covered solely by advertising. :)

(931011)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 20:46:43 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:40:23 2012.

The 911 operator never ordered him not to follow. He said something like "We don't need you to do that." And of course what they say is not legally binding. And even if it were no rational person would interpret ignoring that recommendation as intent to murder.

(931012)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:47:47 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 12 20:43:55 2012.

Not to mention Trayvon Martin's body was found 100 yards from where Zimmerman's truck was parked. That suggests quite a merry chase, which fits with the girlfriend's last instructions to Trayvon: "Run!"

(931015)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by AlM on Thu Apr 12 20:52:58 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 12 20:09:22 2012.

I do wonder how they are going to convince a jury that it was murder with that narrative. Criminal recklessness, I'd say they have a good chance. But I don't see murder.

But we'll see.



(931016)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:53:37 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 20:46:43 2012.

The 911 operator, an employee of the police department, gave instructions to Zimmerman based on his professional training. A rational person would have stopped right there and waited for the police to arrive. Zimmerman not only continued to follow Trayvon, after being told not to (the instructions of 911 operators most certainly ARE considered those of the police department--here in NYC, in the eyes of the law, the NYPD's 911 operators are considered agents of their employer)--and Zimmerman's disregard for those professional instructions clearly illustrates his intent), but then got out of his vehicle to confront the kid--a very odd thing for a person who felt "threatened" by Ttayvon, to do.

(931017)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 20:53:48 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:47:47 2012.

Even as someone that wants Zimmerman to be found guilty, I can't follow your reasoning. Any number of things could have happened that ended with that result, but Zimmerman running down the more athletic-looking, younger man seems less likely than others.

(931019)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:55:39 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 20:53:48 2012.

Well, then, perhaps you'd care to present your theory of how Trayvon's body got where it was found, if he wasn't running from a strange man with a gun?

(931020)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 20:57:35 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:53:37 2012.

The 911 operator, an employee of the police department, gave instructions to Zimmerman based on his professional training.

What were those instructions?

A rational person would have stopped right there and waited for the police to arrive.

Agreed, but it's quite a leap to say that ignoring the recommendation showed intent to murder.

(the instructions of 911 operators most certainly ARE considered those of the police department--here in NYC, in the eyes of the law

BS unless you link to someone being arrested for not following 911 instructions or link to the applicable law.

Zimmerman's disregard for those professional instructions

What instructions?!?

(931024)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 21:04:06 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:55:39 2012.

I don't have a theory, but according to the girl that he was on the phone with he refused to run. My understanding is that he was found on a walking route back to the place where he was staying.

(931028)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 21:06:42 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 20:57:35 2012.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon Martin. "We don't need you to do that" leaves little to the imagination. It means, "STOP following that kid". 911 operators' instructions to callers are legally discoverable, and recordings of 911 conversations are, in fact, legal documents. If, for example, a person calls 911 and states he is holding hostages, one of the things the 911 operator will tell them is to surrender when police arrive. Later, when said suspect is on trial, those tapes will be played for a jury, and the suspects' actions during the 911 conversation will be placed into evidence, showing his intentions.

Whether such instructions are legally binding in Florida or not, will come out if Zimmerman goes to trial, but if Zimmerman never intended to start a confrontation with Trayvon, why, then, did he not only continue to follow this child, but actually get out of the truck and accost him? The 911 tapes establish Zimmerman's intent quite well.

(931029)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 21:07:55 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 21:04:06 2012.

He told his girlfriend he was going to "walk fast", but I think Zimmerman brandished his gun, and that caused Trayvon to run.

(931030)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Fred G on Thu Apr 12 21:09:34 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 20:46:43 2012.

I don't think they're using that to show intent to kill but that it was the moment where the situation escalated to a possible provocation.

your pal,
Fred

(931031)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 21:09:39 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 21:07:55 2012.

Perhaps, but do you understand that is something that you are imagining in your head and may not be reality?

(931034)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Apr 12 21:14:41 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 20:47:47 2012.

People were and continue to attack your complete hypocricy. Again....guilty until proven innocent appears to be your motto...a good thing our justice system allows for innocent until proven guilty unlike horrible countries around the world....which you appear to thinl is a better system.....until of course the next time the white guy is the victim and the black or gay is tbe perpetrator....

(931035)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 21:15:18 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 21:09:39 2012.

I'm saying that the known facts about what transpired before and during Zimmerman's confrontation with Trayvon do not match his self-serving account of what happened. If the Sanford police hadn't aided and abetted George Zimmerman by doing such a cursory, slipshod investigation, we wouldn't have to wonder about certain aspects of this case. But it's still gonna be difficult for the defense to explain how Trayvon's body was found so far from Zimmerman's truck, given that Zimmerman claims Trayvon attacked him from behind at his vehicle.

(931037)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 21:16:15 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Apr 12 21:06:42 2012.

Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon Martin. "We don't need you to do that" leaves little to the imagination. It means, "STOP following that kid".

Technically that sentence means that he/the police can do their job without Zimmerman following him. Realistically he meant for Zimmerman to stop following him. But there's no interpretation where that would mean that he cannot follow him. In fact, if you listen to the rest of the call the operator next asks him if the police should meet him where he is or at the gate and he replies that he's not sure where he'll be. The implication is that he won't know because he's still following him and the operator doesn't say anything.

(931039)

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Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 12 21:17:16 2012, in response to Re: AP says Zimmerman in custody, posted by Fred G on Thu Apr 12 21:09:34 2012.

I agree.

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