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(916009)

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So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 10:57:44 2012

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...what do you think would happen to the way people handle their money?

Do you think people would embrace $2 bills to keep the number of coins jingling in their pockets down? Would this be a good thing?

Do you think people would just treat the coins like they used to treat the bills, and just use $5, $10 and $20 like before? Would adding twos to the mix be embraced, or just make things more complicated?

Or something else? What would you do? I'd try to use the twos.


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(916014)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 11:07:25 2012, in response to So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 10:57:44 2012.

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The twos would become more popular. Not that people wouldn't also use multiple dollar coins for transactions, but carrying the equivalent number of dollar coins to singles would almost literally burn holes in people's pockets.

It would also have the benefit of increasing incidental purchases from newsstands/vending machines: pulling out your wallet to buy something is making a purchase. But a transaction made entirely with coins doesn't feel like spending money.

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(916015)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Mar 3 11:12:19 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 11:07:25 2012.

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But a transaction made entirely with coins doesn't feel like spending money.

I guess you haven't been to Canada in recent years, huh? Coins are flying out of everybody's pockets and flying in and out of the cash registers like crazy up there. The lowest bill up there is a $5...

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(916017)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 11:32:19 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Sat Mar 3 11:12:19 2012.

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Yes but it feels like a smaller transaction. If I toss two coins and get a candy bar, it doesn't feel like I've lost any money. But if I pull out a bill, it's suddenly a big deal. Even if we are talking about the same $1.25

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(916020)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by orange blossom special on Sat Mar 3 11:37:21 2012, in response to So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 10:57:44 2012.

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With the inflation planned for Barry's 2nd and 3rd terms, you think the dollar bill will really be an issue for utility?

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(916037)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Charles G on Sat Mar 3 12:14:09 2012, in response to So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 10:57:44 2012.

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If you're going to eliminate the $1 bill then you have to eliminate the $2 bill at the same time or you won't get much savings.

Here in Switzerland, the Franc is reasonably close to the Dollar (0.9:1). We have no bills smaller than 10 Francs. There are coins for 1, 2 and 5 Francs. You never have a wad of bills -- we all know that dreaded situation where you buy something for $2 with a twenty and end up getting 18 ratty dollar bills as change...

Interestingly, there is no coin smaller than 5 rappen (the rough equivalent of a nickel). All store prices are rounded off to the nearest .05, although payments by credit card or by other electronic means are at the .01 base. And like the US, many vending machines do not accept the lowest denomination coin -- so those 5 rappen coins become annoying and tend to accumulate like pennies do in the US.



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(916048)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 12:22:11 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Charles G on Sat Mar 3 12:14:09 2012.

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You never have a wad of bills -- we all know that dreaded situation where you buy something for $2 with a twenty and end up getting 18 ratty dollar bills as change...

I don't. If a store ever gives change in $1 bills more than 4 of them, they usually say "sorry, we're out of fives [or tens]," or "it is OK?"

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(916054)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 3 12:26:42 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Charles G on Sat Mar 3 12:14:09 2012.

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You live in Switzerland?

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(916059)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 3 12:30:53 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Charles G on Sat Mar 3 12:14:09 2012.

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If you're going to eliminate the $1 bill then you have to eliminate the $2 bill at the same time or you won't get much savings.

Presumably people will carry a given amount of money on average no matter what. So the number of $2 bills outstanding would be about half the current number of $1 bills outstanding.





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(916063)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Charles G on Sat Mar 3 12:33:11 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 3 12:26:42 2012.

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For the last 2 and a half years.

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(916068)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Charles G on Sat Mar 3 12:37:33 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by AlM on Sat Mar 3 12:30:53 2012.

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That's probably about right. In today's environment, I imagine the cost of producing $2 bills isn't significantly different from zero since there are so few in circulation.

If you eliminate the $1 bill and compensate by printing 1/2 as many $2 bills per year I doubt the savings proposition is nearly as compelling than if you eliminated the $1 bill and minted $1 and $2 coins.

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(916069)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Mar 3 12:40:51 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Charles G on Sat Mar 3 12:33:11 2012.

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Filthy neutral!



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(916109)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 14:28:51 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Charles G on Sat Mar 3 12:37:33 2012.

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I could get behind eliminating the 2 if there was a $2 coin...

Though there are two problems I see with getting rid of all the small denominations:

-At the point it becomes difficult to discern coins by touch in the pocket, there are too many coins. Though we could repurpose the half dollar's size for the $2. On a related note, the penny should be eliminated to allow dimes distinction in a pocket.
-There are a few things that somewhat rely on small bills, restaurant tipping and strippers come to mind (though in the latter case, this may simply lead to stripping becoming a more lucrative profession).

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(916117)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 14:53:59 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 14:28:51 2012.

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Eliminating pennies would probably save quite a bit, since more cents are minted each year than all other coins COMBINED.

But there are powerful forces in favor of keeping the cent, and I think the round-up, round-down business would irritate shoppers no end.


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(916121)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 3 15:16:27 2012, in response to So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 10:57:44 2012.

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Huzzah for currency debasement . . .

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(916208)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 20:00:33 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 14:53:59 2012.

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But there are powerful forces in favor of keeping the cent, and I think the round-up, round-down business would irritate shoppers no end.

And they will deal with it. It's not like people will stop buying things. Congress is always making changes that annoy large numbers of people and *cost* money, you'd figure something that annoys large numbers of people (with the only true negative being annoyance) but *saves* money should be forced through.

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(916211)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 3 20:07:01 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 20:00:33 2012.

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None of this "forced through" business. We're a democracy, not an autocracy.

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(916213)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Mar 3 20:08:18 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 3 20:07:01 2012.

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We're a republic ... and the right is all butthurt because the previous autocracy was replaced by democrats. Stick to the EU ...

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(916237)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Mar 3 20:49:48 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 14:53:59 2012.

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Pennies have to be minted due to SALES TAXES!!! Regardless of the cost of the item or the sales tax percentage, pennies are needed for cash transactions.

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(916239)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by dand124 on Sat Mar 3 20:50:20 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Mar 3 20:49:48 2012.

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Wrong again Dan Lawrence

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(916246)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Mar 3 21:15:48 2012, in response to So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 10:57:44 2012.

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...ChrisGP38 would leave the country. :)


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(916249)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by RockParkMan on Sat Mar 3 21:27:27 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Mar 3 21:15:48 2012.

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Wouldn't that be nice!!!!

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(916273)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Mar 3 22:39:35 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by dand124 on Sat Mar 3 20:50:20 2012.

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Show me the PROFF!!!! Or are you channeling the Turtle?

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(916304)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Mar 3 23:21:02 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sat Mar 3 21:15:48 2012.

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Nah, probably just complain about it to no end.

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(916306)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Allan on Sat Mar 3 23:30:16 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by orange blossom special on Sat Mar 3 11:37:21 2012.

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Uh, a President can only serve 2 consecutive terms.

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(916325)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Mar 4 00:21:20 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Mar 3 20:49:48 2012.

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The resulting price would simply be rounded to the nearest nickel, as is done in other countries.

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(916341)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Mar 4 04:13:38 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Mar 3 20:49:48 2012.

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WTF? By your logic, there should be mil coins too because sales taxes on values not equal to whole dollars could resolve into values less than 1. That and that extra 9 mils added to gas prices for some reason.

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(916342)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Mar 4 04:14:18 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Mar 3 22:39:35 2012.

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What proff? How do they do sales tax now when it's not a whole number of cents? Seriously, how dumb are you?

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(916344)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Mar 4 04:33:26 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Mar 4 04:13:38 2012.

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The "9" in gas prices dates back to a time when gas was under 30 cents a gallon. Made it look cheaper than it was. Totally irrelevant today at over a dollar a gallon, but all those little underlined 9's still make it look cheaper. That tradition in pricing goes back a LONG way to 19.9 or even 27.9 ... that's why though.

Sorta like why Wal*Fart has an obsession with $X.96 ...

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(916351)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Mar 4 07:44:49 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Mar 4 00:21:20 2012.

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That's right.

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(916354)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 4 09:08:18 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 20:00:33 2012.

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Basically, it's the vending industry vs. charities:

Anti-penny

Pro-penny.


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(916355)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 4 09:16:17 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Mar 4 04:33:26 2012.

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Those 9 mils, like all other amounts, used to be worth a lot more. When gas prices were in the teens or even single digits, all the sub-cent numbers were used. Remember that gas and other fuels were never bought a single gallon at a time, so one mil was a 2 cent difference on 20 gallons, and less than a century ago, you could buy stuff with 2 cents. What is the NY Times now? $2.50 or something? When I was a kid it was 5 cents, a postcard was a penny. And a subway fare was a nickel.


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(916361)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Mar 4 10:40:14 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Mar 4 04:14:18 2012.

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Sales tax is a percent of the price you pay. For example, Maryland's sales tax is 6% of the total. The 6% is rounded up so no half cent ever occurs.

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(916395)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Mar 4 14:11:27 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sun Mar 4 09:08:18 2012.

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There are some better arguments for elimination here.

There are a lot of people who simply throw them out. No one cares that it hurts the economy or is illegal - the additional weight/damage they cause in the pocket and the time spent dealing with it is far greater than any value they hold.

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(916405)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 14:18:55 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 14:28:51 2012.

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Having $5 bills as the lowest bills is almost absurd...and the 'cost savings' of eliminating dollar bills and attempting to replace them with $2 bills highly inflated as the money would just basically go to producing $2 bills instead.

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(916408)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by RockParkMan on Sun Mar 4 14:22:13 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 14:18:55 2012.

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That's why Canada replaced their $2 bill with a coin as well.

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(916410)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 14:35:08 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Mar 4 14:11:27 2012.

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Totally agree. No need for pennies anymore. They are the ultimate nuisance change.

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(916411)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by RockParkMan on Sun Mar 4 14:37:53 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 14:35:08 2012.

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SCRAP THE PENNIES, DO IT NOW!!!

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(916412)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 14:38:11 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by AlM on Sat Mar 3 12:30:53 2012.

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On paper that sounds logicall, but in practice that would not be the case. The aversion to dollar coins is strong, and most people will not evenly exchange to using dollar coins...which will be thrown in containees with all their other nusiannce change....thus more two dollar bills will be carried around.

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(916413)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 14:44:58 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Mar 3 20:49:48 2012.

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False!! All transactions would be averaged up or down to the nearest nickel.

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(916414)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 14:50:26 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Mar 4 10:40:14 2012.

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???????????
At the end of the transaction...the final umber is rounded up or down to the nearest nickel. It doesnt matter what the percentage for tax is.

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(916415)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Charles G on Sun Mar 4 14:50:50 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by RockParkMan on Sun Mar 4 14:22:13 2012.

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Are there any countries that use notes for anything less than about $5?

Off some quick thinking, the smallest notes by country are:

US -- $1.00
Canada C$ 5 (about $5.00)
Euro -- EUR 5 (about $6.50)
Great Britain -- GBP 5 (about $7.50)
Switzerland -- CHF 10 (about $11.00)

Basically, the rest of the western world has adapted just fine to using notes for only values above $5.00 (or more). There's no reason that Americans can't do the same -- especially if the cost savings to printing all those notes is significant.

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(916416)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Mar 4 14:51:48 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Charles G on Sun Mar 4 14:50:50 2012.

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No, there's no logic in that.

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(916417)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 14:53:44 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Charles G on Sun Mar 4 14:50:50 2012.

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Who cares?

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(916418)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Mar 4 14:54:27 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 14:53:59 2012.

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The problem with the penny is that it has the largest percentage of produced coins not in circulation. There are millions of pennies sitting in jars in almost every household. They are not worth wrapping and cashing in, so they continue to collect dust.

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(916419)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Charles G on Sun Mar 4 14:59:52 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Charles G on Sun Mar 4 14:50:50 2012.

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A few more...

Japan -- JPY 1000 (about $12.00)
Israel -- 20 Shekels (about $5.50)

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(916420)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by Charles G on Sun Mar 4 15:01:10 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 14:53:44 2012.

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I care. I'd like to see the U.S. stop wasting money by having to constantly print dollar bills to replace worn currency and start using coins which would last much longer.

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(916421)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 15:07:56 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Mar 3 11:32:19 2012.

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I never heard anyone think it was a bigger deal to pull out a bill and a quarter or use. 5 quarters....actually I dont use change at all so it would just be paper i give anyway.

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(916422)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 15:14:23 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by Charles G on Sat Mar 3 12:14:09 2012.

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When does anyone get "18 ratty bills" for change when paying $20 for a $2 item? I dont think i ever had that happen
. You'll get a a 10, 5, & 3 1's. Which is always bettef than getting any sort of coinage at all.

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(916423)

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Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated...

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sun Mar 4 15:17:08 2012, in response to Re: So, if the dollar bill were eliminated..., posted by SLRT on Sat Mar 3 12:22:11 2012.

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Usually theyhate to get rid of their singles...most stores want them as they use a lot of them. Getting 18 singles back is absurd...rarely does that ever happen...and only if the store had a problem. Getting "18 dollar coins back" would be exponentially worse. Again somwone has to bring up the absurd.

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