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| Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests (599719) | |
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| (600436) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 22:55:37 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 27 22:50:40 2010. The Republicans keep shooting themselves in the foot...I didn't think it was possible with the Democrats doing so poorly, but the Republicans have proven that they just don't "get it." Hence why I am a "liberal-libertarian" and not a member of either party. |
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| (600437) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 22:55:39 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 22:48:17 2010. Give in? To who? A vocal minority? Stand their ground, I say. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 22:55:54 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 27 22:48:49 2010. As a layman the part of the law that appears to be unconstitutional to me is the trespassing clause because it exceeds federal law. I don't think that "reasonable" should be a problem. I also don't think that any of the emotional "profiling, racist, etc" arguments would have any merit in a serious court challenge. |
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| (600439) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 22:56:24 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 22:55:37 2010. How are they shooting themselves in the foot? By wanting to enforce immigration laws? Enforcing the law is shooting oneself in the foot? |
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| (600440) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 22:56:54 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 22:55:39 2010. Give in to everyone on TV. Whoever they are. Perception is reality. |
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| (600441) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 27 23:04:47 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 22:55:54 2010. Since it's a state law, the state has the right to determine what "reasonable" is within its own borders, and defendants have the right to challenge it on a federal basis. It's been almost a week now since I last looked at the bill, but there are some issues of usurpation of federal authority and so I'd expect the feds to say "wait a minute" to those. Immigration control *is* a federal responsibility, including any detainment for that issue. Where Arizona's law crosses the line is in the portion where that alone could be a basis for detainment. This is why local authorities always come with ICE officers in any action involving immigration and the law seems to not honor that requirement. |
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| (600442) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:07:25 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 22:55:54 2010. "Profiling" may.14th Amendment: "Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Also, I believe that it may violate the 5th Amendment: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[1]" |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:08:21 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 22:56:24 2010. All the bad PR.Not that I disagree, but they are making themselves look like intolerant pigs. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 27 23:11:30 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 22:55:37 2010. Heh. It IS amusing indeed. I guess the republicans are desperately seeking out a constituency as predicted in "Greening of America." :) |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:11:55 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:07:25 2010. Yes, but there's no profiling in the law. That's what I meant. People are saying that the only way to determine if someone is here illegally is to profile anyone that is "brown*".*Mexicans aren't "brown" IMHOFWIW. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:12:58 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:08:21 2010. It's good PR. You don't know how many people are think that something needs to be done about illegal immigration.Not that I hate Mexicans or Ecuadorians, or el Salvadorians. I don't. But every country has a right to enforce immigration laws. btw- They should deport some Amber's and Kellea's to a trailer park in San Luis Potosi too. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:16:00 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:11:55 2010. Well....if the majority of people arrested under this law end up being Mexican....I think you can see where the profiling accusations will come from.This law is DOA. It's simply a cheap political trick by Brewer and Company. It may backfire in November (as the Dems will spend all kinds of money to fight them). |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:17:35 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:16:00 2010. Well....if the majority of people arrested under this law end up being Mexican....I think you can see where the profiling accusations will come from.lol. Maybe Arizona should move their border to Norway. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:19:25 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 22:56:54 2010. The perception is that Arizona is doing something about illegal immigration. If they stand their ground, they will help the GOP nationwide in November. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:19:26 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:17:35 2010. Sorry, I didn't mean Mexican. I meant of Hispanic origin.You've just witnessed one of my many failings, I associate Mexican and Hispanic as interchangeable words. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:20:06 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:19:25 2010. La percepción no es la realidad. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:20:24 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:16:00 2010. And what will the libs message be? How vocal can they be about supporting ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION? |
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| (600455) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:20:46 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:19:26 2010. Either way most of the arrests will be Mexican/Hispanic. What else would it be in Arizona? Or any state in the US? |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:21:41 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:16:00 2010. False! It only would prove that the majprity of those arrested as illegal immigrants are mexicans. It does not necessarilly relate to how many people were checked. |
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| (600457) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:22:00 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:19:25 2010. Maybe. I haven't heard any support for the law aside from right wingers on the radio. |
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| (600459) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:22:21 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:20:24 2010. They can be vocal about protecting Americans from harassment. They can be vocal about actually creating laws to STOP the stem of illegals from Mexico. They can be vocal about actual meaningful immigration reform. |
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| (600460) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:22:25 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:19:26 2010. Subliminal racism? |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:23:24 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:22:25 2010. Ir a la mierda. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:23:51 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:22:00 2010. Heck, Republicans in other states aren't even supporting it. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:24:11 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:22:00 2010. Silent majority. Most people SUPPORT the law, but you have to be careful what you say to whoever these days.If the people of Arizona could vote on this in November, it would pass, like Prop 187. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:24:37 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:23:24 2010. Que? |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:25:04 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:23:51 2010. Proof? |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:25:13 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:24:11 2010. And like Prop 187, it'll fail in federal court. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:26:12 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:22:21 2010. Enforcement of immigration laws and reform are different issues. Even if reform happens, and I think it will, something must be done about the wave of illegal immigrants entering this country. |
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| (600468) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:26:59 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:25:13 2010. Ok. But don't tell me the people don't want this law in Arizona. They would vote yes if they could. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:27:34 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:26:59 2010. Because they are inherently racist? |
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Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by BMTLines on Tue Apr 27 23:28:49 2010, in response to Violent Arizona Protests, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 26 20:44:21 2010. THIS PART OF THE LAW I agree with:And it warns that the law will also make it illegal to hire or be hired from a vehicle stopped on the street. It should be illegal to hire "day laborers". Obviously they are not being processed through Human Resource departments, I-9's and new hire reporting is not done, and if they are paid in cash then proper taxes are not being withheld. Anyone hiring a "day laborer" and paying cash should be arrested for tax evasion along with the day laborer. |
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| (600471) | |
Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:29:18 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:25:04 2010. SACRAMENTO, Calif.—Meg Whitman, the Republican front-runner in the California gubernatorial primary, said Tuesday that Arizona is taking the wrong approach to illegal immigration with its tough new law.Source: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14968509 |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:30:40 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:27:34 2010. No. Because after having lived in Arizona for 10 years, there is the perception (and indeed the reality) that there are a lot of carjackings, Mexican gangs, crime, and violence caused by illegal immigration. Illegal immigration has caused a number of real problems in Arizona and does need to be cracked down upon.I just don't think that this is the right approach. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:32:17 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:26:12 2010. Right, but a law that is constitutionally deficient and probably isn't the right way to go. Like I said, this could be positive (if it spurs reform) or it could be negative (if it doesn't get overturned and opens up the state and local jurisdictions up to racial profiling lawsuits). |
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Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:33:01 2010, in response to Re: Violent Arizona Protests, posted by BMTLines on Tue Apr 27 23:28:49 2010. Yes, I agree with it as well. Not only that, the day laborers outside of Home Depot are really a nuisance, or can be. |
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Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:35:14 2010, in response to Re: Violent Arizona Protests, posted by BMTLines on Tue Apr 27 23:28:49 2010. The wording in the law is more concerned with the stopping in the street than the fact that they are day laborers. By including that in this bill I wonder if Arizona lawmakers are subliminally saying that the act of being a day laborer is reasonable suspicion that you are here illegally.And that reminds me. I have noticed many more black day laborers in LA which is more evidence that the Hispanic/illegal population here has been shrinking. |
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Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:36:22 2010, in response to Re: Violent Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:33:01 2010. Do you assume that they are illegal? Are you profiling? ;) |
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Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:36:25 2010, in response to Re: Violent Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:35:14 2010. The Hispanic/illegal problem has been shrinking with the contraction in the economy. It still, however, is a major issue in Arizona. Especially with the murder of a rancher a few months back. |
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Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:37:06 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by bingbong on Tue Apr 27 14:18:57 2010. Once again talking about something of which you obviously have no knowledge. You just might want to read this? |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 27 23:37:39 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:29:18 2010. Tancredo hisself came out and said it was bad as well. And when you've lost Tancredo, you've lost Glenn Beck. :) |
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Re: Violent Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:38:12 2010, in response to Re: Violent Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:36:22 2010. Are you baiting me?I'm not going to fall into your trap. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:39:09 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:29:18 2010. As you know since you still live in California, she's a very moderate Republican. I think that I heard that she endorsed Gore over Bush. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:39:10 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Apr 27 23:26:59 2010. Nah - that's not true. Most recent polls say that only 70% of Arizona residents support this law. Their will has been deemed irrelevent by the left, however so guess what? |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:39:44 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 27 23:37:39 2010. I remember Tancredo did as well. The perception amongst "smart" Republicans is that this will backfire on a nationwide basis and that Hispanics in other areas will vote Democrat as opposed to Republican in protest of this and other extreme Republican ideas. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Apr 27 23:39:50 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:29:18 2010. If only because that doesn't go after the root of the problem---my major opposition to it; I would support a measure going after the root of the problem.A start would be reclassifying being here illegally in and of itself as an IIRIRA-deportable offense, without another crime being needed. |
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Re: Opening the borders is not the solution |
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Posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:40:31 2010, in response to Re: Opening the borders is not the solution, posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:37:06 2010. Booyah!! I was right! I think that it says that either on the card or with the paperwork that comes with it. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:40:35 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:29:18 2010. One person (who is running for office in a liberal state) - that's your proof? BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ but thanks for playing |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by PHXTUSbusfan on Tue Apr 27 23:40:37 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Train Dude on Tue Apr 27 23:39:10 2010. That poll is inaccurate. I think a truer number is 55%. |
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Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 27 23:41:35 2010, in response to Re: Violent (leftist) Arizona Protests, posted by Easy on Tue Apr 27 23:20:46 2010. Around Albany, NY the majority of roundups are Chinese ... |
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