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| Re: John White Found Guilty (271136) | |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:35:11 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 02:46:47 2007. If a group of thugs showed up at my house at 11:30 at night then I wouldn't hesitate to use lethal force. Any loving father would go out of his way to protect his son. I don't see the difference between John White and Bernie Goetz. This trial is the epitome of racism. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Dec 23 12:36:36 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 00:49:43 2007. You know what that statement makes you? a racist. your a racist. you say that Mr. White (black guy name what, that's confusing) was tragted and convicted becuase of his race, that makes you a racist two.Mr. white was not in his right to shoot. he killed the kid. he had no right to kill the kid. If you don't know the law here, then you have no to right to judge. that proesecutor did his job and put a killer away. Mr. white is a killer. he killed someone. what ever the boy was doing, what ever he was going to do, means nothing. threating and acting are two diffrent things. I can threaten you with a bat, or i can hit you with it. I threaten you with it, a misdaminer at the extream; wack you over the head with it a few times and it's felony assult. see where i'm going with this? Like everyone else had said, he should have locked the doors and windows and called 911. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:38:51 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by metropod on Sun Dec 23 12:36:36 2007. So if a robber comes to your house you're supposed to negotiate with him and invite him over for tea? |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:40:15 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 11:31:10 2007. So a 5 on 1 attack isn't violence? |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 12:41:16 2007, in response to John White Found Guilty, posted by Train Dude on Sat Dec 22 23:29:44 2007. Since I haven't been following the case too closely I really don't know if he is guilty or innocent. It may have been self defense or an accidental firing but just the fact he used an illegal gun doesn't bode well. It isn't self defense until there's an immediate threat, not a future threat. Just standing outside one's house is not an immediate threat.Conversely, I always thought Bernhard Goetz guilty as hell as five kids asking one if he had five dollars is not an immediate threat until they actually threaten him. If it was a threat it would then be OK to shoot anyone begging on the subway. Also, Goetz' gun was illegal too, just like White's. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 12:44:24 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:35:11 2007. ["I don't see the difference between John White and Bernie Goetz."]You're right, there isn't much difference. But that doesn't make White innocent. Just the opposite. Goetz was guilty and should have been convicted.
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 12:45:03 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 11:51:41 2007. I would say that Mr. Cicciaro acted irrationally by going to the White house under those circumstances which were:- Late at night - In a group - Drunk If a drunk group showing up at someones home late at night isn't reason to arm oneself, I don't know what is. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 12:45:58 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by metropod on Sun Dec 23 12:36:36 2007. If someone threatens you with a bat you have every right to shoot. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 12:48:48 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 12:45:03 2007. ["I would say that Mr. Cicciaro acted irrationally by going to the White house under those circumstances..."]He went to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington??? Oops, I'm starting to sound like Monorail!!!
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 12:49:11 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:35:11 2007. Well, at least you agree that Bernie acted in self-defense.If a white man shot a white kid under these circumstances, do you really think the prosecutor would not have worked so hard to convict? It's hard for anyone to say, because this wouldn't be news if those involved were all of the same race. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 23 12:53:54 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 12:41:16 2007. Since I haven't been following the case too closely I really don't know if he is guilty or innocent. It may have been self defense or an accidental firingHe was convicted of manslaughter, not murder. That implies an accidental rather than a deliberate firing, but a firing that only happened because White acted in reckless disregard of human life. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:56:26 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 11:13:02 2007. It was a mostly white jury. Regardless of the facts of the case I already knew what the outcome would be. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:01:25 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Dec 23 10:27:49 2007. Number one - the Blackout Gang was NOT a racist group. "Blackout" was because they all had black cars and showed them off at car shows. And it was also noted that Aaron White either hung out with them or attended these shows.Why should be there a comeuppance? The kids have already gone through enough hell. If seeing their friend shot dead, speeding him to the hospital, and being covered in blood isn't punishment enough, I don't know what is. They have to live with this the rest of their lives, including the girl who cried "Wolf" on the rape threat, and Aaron White. Enough is enough. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:05:07 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 23 12:32:39 2007. Saying "nigger" does not necessarily make you a racist. It's often a personal insult. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:06:34 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 12:45:03 2007. Agreed. But it doesn't justify White killing him. End of story. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:06:38 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:56:26 2007. It's a mostly white county. Shouldn't the jury reflect the demographics of Suffolk? |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:08:03 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:40:15 2007. What attack? There was NO attack. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:11:41 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:56:26 2007. So what? A mostly white jury doesn't mean it was a racist jury. If anything, the lack of black jurors prevented the jury from reaching a verdict based on emotional, irrational black fears. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:11:55 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 03:30:17 2007. No, it's not. Cicciaro did have a KKK type lynching in mind when he went to White's place. All I'm saying is White should have used his telephone first, not his gun. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:13:26 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:06:38 2007. You're not allowed to specifically select a jury's makeup based on race. There are ways around it. Besides, I think there were 3 or 4 Hispanics on the jury. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:17:15 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 23 04:44:05 2007. I think Cicciaro's racism was very clear, and was disinhibited by the alcohol. But you're right about the use of a weapon.If Cicciaro had shown a weapon first, then all bets are off. Yu're allowed to protect yourself. White's brandishing a weapon first and not calling the cops were stupid moves. Cicciaro was an asshole. It's possible that if he didn't buy the farm then, he would have bought it some other time with his stupidity, his prejudice and impulsiveness. He had no business calling White's son on the phone to begin with. The guy left the party on request; Ciciaro should have let it drop and minded his own beeswax. If he did he'd be alive today. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:17:49 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:38:51 2007. No "robber" entered his house. No one PERIOD entered his house. White had absolutley no justifiable defense for murdering this kid. Why can't everyone simple admit this obvious truth? |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:18:38 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:11:55 2007. "KKK type lynching"? That's the kind of exaggeration that turns people off. There were no white hoods, burning crosses, nooses, and out-in-the-open arms like the KKK scenes we've read about and seen on tv. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:19:57 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 12:44:24 2007. Goetz was in immediate physical danger. White wasn't. Geotz didn't have access to a phone. White did. White was inside his home, behind a locked door. Geotz was in a public subway car with no potential means of escape. Geotz's shooting was totally justified. White's was not. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:19:57 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 03:16:51 2007. "Blacks call each other, "Nigga", not "Nigger". It's a way for young black males to bond according to some experts."A lot of kids don't know just what "nigger" means historically. Their use of the word reflects ignorance. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:21:15 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 11:25:52 2007. White didn't know they were unarmed until he pulled his gun and nobody else did. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:22:54 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:18:38 2007. It's not exaggerated. You don't need a noose or burning cross to be racist. This was very real. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:23:23 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 12:35:11 2007. If a group of thugs showed up at my house at 11:30 at night then I wouldn't hesitate to use lethal force. The law doesn't allow you to until you are facing imminent physical danger. If the kids broke down the door and went for his son, White then would have justification. But he didn't. White left the safety of his home and confronted the kids with his gun. That act lead to a death. That's textbook manslaughter. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:23:28 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:17:15 2007. Cicciaro used the "N" word when the target of his frstration was black. If he was targeting some overweight kid, he probably would've said, "You fat bastard". If he had a beef with a gay kid, he might've said "You f^cking sissy". Anger and alcohol were going to make Cicciaro use strong harmful words no matter who his target was. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:25:02 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:23:28 2007. Well, you're entitled to your opinion, but it isn't realistic at all. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by metropod on Sun Dec 23 13:26:09 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 12:45:58 2007. I was compairng the conisquecns of threats with the consiquences of actions. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:27:47 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:23:28 2007. Very true. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:28:27 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:25:02 2007. It's totally true. I'm sorry if you can't accept it. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:30:56 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:22:54 2007. If you believe that, better not be so active in defending that thought. Just having your name attached to an argument makes most sympathize with the opposing viewpoint. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:32:33 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 12:49:11 2007. It wasn't news UNTIL the lawyer for White played the race card. The "lynch mob" explanation was never offered up until after the trial began. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 13:33:15 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Railman718 on Sun Dec 23 07:56:08 2007. Aaron White did nothing wrong other than to hang out with a bunch of closet bigots. Now his whole life is ruined. With one income lost the family will have to move out of their tony neighborhood. He won't have enough money to go to college. His dad is going to rot in prison. All because of an asinine prank. His dad wasn't a gangster. He didn't smoke weed. He was one of the rare black men that were faithful to their wives and took care of their kids. Through hard work and perseverance they were able to live the American dream. However, the racist actions of the devil destroyed their dream. Last night I prayed for him and his father. Sometimes bad things happen to good people. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:34:13 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:28:27 2007. It's totally false. I'm sorry you can't face up to it. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:34:34 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:19:57 2007. Oh yeah? They totally understand the historical meaning of the word. That's why they use it. It empowers them that they can use it when talking to each other. And they're well aware that it's not acceptable for a white person to call them that word because of it's historical significance.One day I was getting off the J train at Parsons. As soon as the doors opened, a black lady got up and pulled her daughter off the train with her, while saying, "Come on honey, that Nigga'z farting on the train". I thought that was funny. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:34:52 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:30:56 2007. That's silly nonsense on your part. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:35:38 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 13:33:15 2007. "Aaron White did nothing wrong other than to hang out with a bunch of closet bigots"True statement |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 13:36:48 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:17:49 2007. You're right. Ciccaro and his stooges merely wanted to play pattycake with Aaron White. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:38:48 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:34:34 2007. "They totally understand the historical meaning of the word. That's why they use it. It empowers them that they can use it when talking to each other. And they're well aware that it's not acceptable for a white person to call them that word because of it's historical significance."No, actually they have no clue at all. They have a piss-poor education (as, apparently do you) and their grandparents never told them just what "nigger" meant in real terms duriing Jim Crow. Jews don't call each other "Kike" or "Jesus killer." "I thought that was funny." You don't know any better. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:39:23 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 13:36:48 2007. No, they probably wanted to kick his ass. But was his race the reason? Most of the evidence says no, it was other things. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:40:22 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 23 12:53:54 2007. It's a step up from negligent homicide, which would imply the same thing but without the "reckless" part, correct? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:40:57 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:39:23 2007. Most evidence says "yes." Except to those insensitive to race issues. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:41:46 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Forest Glen on Sun Dec 23 13:33:15 2007. Aaron White probably did nothing wrong. His father, OTOH killed a kid. BTW, when did Riverhead become "tony"? |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:44:54 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:25:02 2007. If you're a black man, and you just shot a white kid, and know you're now in a shit load of trouble, wouldn't you say the "N" word was used even if it wasn't?It brings us back to the Fat Nick case in Howard Beach. Fat Nick may have used the "N" word when attacking the guy. Fat Nick was a violent criminal first and foremost. Remember, he stabbed a kid of Irish heritage in Broad Channel before the incident with the black kid. Would Fat Nick be a racist or bigot or perpetrator of a hate crime for saying, "You Irish f^ck" when stabbing the kid. The words would not be even be an issue in this case. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Dec 23 13:46:11 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:41:46 2007. Aaron is the real victim here. He was innocent of wrongdoing, got kicked out of a party for no good reason, then watched his father use bad judgment and have to go to prison for it.Even worse, Cicciaro's family and friends will blame him for this. They'l find an opportunity to jump him someplace and beat the crap out of him because somebody can't let it drop. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 23 13:46:38 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 23 12:48:48 2007. LOL. I was waiting to see if someone caught that. |
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Re: John White Found Guilty |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Dec 23 13:48:16 2007, in response to Re: John White Found Guilty, posted by Amanda on Sun Dec 23 13:01:25 2007. When someone brings race into an incident, rarely do people argue the facts. If they did, OJ Simpson would be on death row and Thomas Blanton and Frank Cherry would have been sentenced to life in prison 40+ years ago |
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