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| Re: He was in my class (184007) | |
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| (185442) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 12:59:19 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by orange blossom special on Wed Jan 17 12:48:44 2007. It's an If then statement.Who said otherwise. Whatever view someone takes on this, it's "if" or "maybe". And second, at 10mph, do you need new tires or something to screech that long? No. Anti-lock brakes? No idea. You'd make a tire squeel for like what, 2-3 seconds at the most? We have no idea how long the screech was. BTW, in most states(more than 25 I believe) you can be cited for speeding while going under the limit! I have no idea, but what does that have to do with this? |
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| (185445) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Wed Jan 17 13:15:13 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by orange blossom special on Wed Jan 17 12:48:44 2007. Stopping distance, average, at 25mph 62feet35mph 106feet Including reflexes You should be able to see this far ahead of you at whatever speed. Ie visability 228feet if going 55mph. I almost found the answer for force of a car hitting at 25 but didn't. It depends on the street though. That's a "wide" street. Some streets everyone speeds, depends on the street. |
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| (185446) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Wed Jan 17 13:16:18 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 12:59:19 2007. *BTW, in most states(more than 25 I believe) you can be cited for speeding while going under the limit!I have no idea, but what does that have to do with this? * Basic Speed Law. If you're going too fast for conditions, even if you're under the limit, yer speeding. |
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| (185455) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 17 13:59:37 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 12:26:24 2007. No it said a witness that LIVES at Veterens and 71st heard the accident from his garage that is AT that intersection.No, it doesn't. "Michael Dolgonos, 34, was in his garage when he heard the screech of brakes at Veterans Ave. and E. 71st St., followed by a sickening thud." |
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| (185456) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 17 14:04:50 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 17 13:59:37 2007. Dolgonos lives at 7102 Avenue T, a block away from the accident site. |
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| (185477) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Wed Jan 17 14:55:49 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 12:52:48 2007. Those are condo's, very expensive. At least you're next to a 7-11 but nothing else. The towers.Your definition of urban is similiar to mine. If I posted a photo of grid-streets with single homes and nice lawns, maybe sidewalks, then those aren't the same as that speedway I posted with the crappy apartments or subdivisons. That's entirely two different worlds. That's where my suburbian/exurbian demarcation is. Since the road I posted were mostly apartments, it's slightly denser. Still impossible to walk, mail, newspaper. Not the same lifestyle as pre 1970's suburbs. Somewhere between 1970-80 they forgot how to build cities. But I can find streetcar or even motorcar suburbs from turn of the century(the last one) that's still pure surburbian. So somewhere after 1980, they completely screwed up in my mind! |
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| (185479) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Jan 17 15:01:33 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by orange blossom special on Wed Jan 17 12:45:47 2007. Many of Florida's streets are terrible for pedestrians. I once stayed at a hotel right off the interstate near Tampa. There was a restaurant right across the street but there was no way to walk to it. There was even a traffic light, but there was no pedestrian crosswalk. Not only did the cars not stop when I entered the intersection, but the light didn't allow enough time for me to cross. I had to jog just to make it across.The next day I decided to get fast food on the same side of the street as my hotel. I walked a couple of hundred yards and got to a small bridge over a creek. For some reason the sidewalk stopped at the bridge and there was no way to continue without walking in the traffic lane. I went back to the hotel and waited for my co-worker to get back with the rental car so that I could drive 250 yards down the street. |
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| (185489) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Wed Jan 17 16:06:24 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by Easy on Wed Jan 17 15:01:33 2007. Now you have me trying to guess the area of the hotel. I don't think it's Westshore, so I dont' know. Don't think you stayed in the Indian "casino" either. Your story sounds like Brandon.I want to say it's probably the same no matter where you are in terms of subdivisions. I've seen some nasty places in suburbs of other states. But I think Florida leads the nation in these subdivisons lacking infrastructure. Florida and one other state...can't remember which though. In numbers that is. |
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| (185526) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 17:39:58 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 17 09:29:51 2007. You obviously don't drive much do you? |
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| (185539) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Jan 17 18:08:24 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 17:39:58 2007. hahaahahahahhahah |
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| (185556) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Jan 17 18:49:10 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by orange blossom special on Wed Jan 17 16:06:24 2007. I have stayed at the Brandon exit, but on the Tampa (west) side of the freeway. But I think that I might have my locations confused. It might have been Ft. Myers...Yeah, I think that it was Ft. Myers. The restaurant across the street was a Hooters. The Ft. Myers Ale House was next to our hotel across a little wooden foot-bridge. The soccer world cup was going on. It was more than 4 years ago so that would make it 1998. |
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| (185561) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Jan 17 18:59:02 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 17:39:58 2007. You obviously don't drive much do you?About 20,000 miles in a typical year. One very rainy night, about six years ago, I was going about 35 mph on Third Avenue under the Gowanus Expressway. All lights were green and there was hardly another car on the road. I don't know if he was suicidal or just stupid, but a pedestrian dressed completely in black sprinted across the street in front of me. I managed to steer around him, though it did cause me to hydroplane and spin around a few times. If that has to happen to me again, I'd rather it be while I was going 10 mph on dry pavement approaching a stop sign. |
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| (185643) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 18 03:51:59 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 02:53:22 2007. Looks normal to me. |
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| (185644) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 18 03:53:25 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 02:43:00 2007. That's what headlights are for. |
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| (185658) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 18 08:12:15 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 18 03:53:25 2007. Right, but people were saying that you can see everything that is happening off to the sides, but not if it's dark off to the side. |
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| (185668) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Jan 18 09:51:08 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by Easy on Tue Jan 16 22:38:11 2007. It also looks like a relatively low density area that might have more cars on the street than people.None of the streets in the area really "go" anywhere. There would be no through traffic at that intersection. |
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| (185686) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 18 11:23:16 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 18 03:51:59 2007. Who said it was abnormal? |
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| (185703) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 18 14:54:33 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 18 11:23:16 2007. You did. You said you wouldn't think it was in Brooklyn, implying that it is not normal for Brooklyn. |
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| (185704) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 18 14:55:04 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 18 08:12:15 2007. Headlights aren't laser beams. |
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| (185710) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 18 15:14:36 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 18 14:55:04 2007. They aren't searchlights either. |
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| (185711) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 18 15:15:23 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 18 14:54:33 2007. No, I said it "could pass as Nassau". |
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| (186392) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jan 20 19:55:30 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jan 12 16:50:07 2007. I scan the sides of the road for anything or anyone that might enter my path and prepare to take corrective action. I drive at a speed that's safe for conditions, which may be faster or slower than the number posted on the signs. |
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| (186394) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jan 20 19:58:07 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 17 09:29:06 2007. Who said it's easy?If it's impossible, then either you were driving too fast or you weren't paying attention to your surroundings. |
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| (186400) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jan 20 20:05:46 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Jan 18 09:51:08 2007. Veterans Avenue feeds into Avenue N. And E. 71st Street is the easternmost north-south street that connects Bergen Beach to whatever neighborhood is to its immediate north. |
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| (186404) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jan 20 20:09:11 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jan 17 10:49:19 2007. Note that it is an all-way stop. |
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| (186628) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 03:06:29 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jan 20 20:09:11 2007. But we still don't know if it happened right in that intersection. I don't think I have read that the driver ran a stop sign, unless there was something else that gave a description of that tragedy. |
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| (186629) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 03:10:40 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jan 20 19:58:07 2007. No, I AM saying that sometimes it's impossible. Even if you are going 10 mph, and someone just walks into traffic, you may not be able to stop in time. |
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| (186633) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 21 03:24:34 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jan 20 19:58:07 2007. No, if the speed limit is 30mph and you are doing 30mph and someone walk out from between two cars in the parking lane and right into your lane right as you are coming by then you can slam on your brakes and swerve but you will probably still hit them. |
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| (186635) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 21 03:24:57 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sat Jan 20 19:58:07 2007. No, if the speed limit is 30mph and you are doing 30mph and someone walks out from between two cars in the parking lane and right into your lane right as you are coming by then you can slam on your brakes and swerve but you will probably still hit them. |
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| (186637) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 03:30:28 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 21 03:24:57 2007. Thank you! That's exactly what I was trying to say too. And you don't even have to be going close to 30 to have the same problem. The best and most alert driver in the world can have a problem stopping when someone just decides to walk into traffic. |
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| (186653) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:20:50 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 21 03:24:57 2007. This person was hiding underneath the car?How would you hit them if you swerve? Is your steering wheel functioning properly? And, again, if you can't safely drive at the posted speed limit, then you can't legally drive at the posted speed limit. |
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| (186654) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:22:02 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 03:10:40 2007. Fortunately, most people are not invisible.If you only look directly in front of the car while you're driving, your license should be revoked. Yes, even at night. |
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| (186657) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 08:41:24 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:22:02 2007. Oh please, you have no idea. No one said anything about "only" looking straight. |
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| (186658) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 08:44:16 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:20:50 2007. This person was hiding underneath the car?No, the person could be perfectly still, not look, and walk right in front of the car. How would you hit them if you swerve? Is your steering wheel functioning properly? Sure, swerve. There are many times when you can't swerve because there is another car or some other obstacle right next to you. Not to mention if the person walks right in front of the car if they didn't look, didn't see, or didn't hear the car coming. And, again, if you can't safely drive at the posted speed limit, then you can't legally drive at the posted speed limit. no one is arguing that. You can be going 10 mph and still have someone walk in front of you. |
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| (186659) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:44:57 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 03:06:29 2007. According to the Daily News article:A witness heard a screech of brakes at an intersection with all-way stop signs. Following this screech of brakes, Sean was propelled over 100 feet along Veterans Avenue. Yes, it's possible that the article is imprecise and the incident took place near rather than at the intersection. But it obviously took place closer to this particular intersection than to any other. Note the block lengths in question. Consider the five possible scenarios. Perhaps the driver was driving westbound and hit Sean east of the side street. That block is very short, and the only way to reach it is by turning off of U. If the car was going fast enough that, even after a screech of brakes, it could still propel Sean over 100 feet, then clearly the driver had no plan to stop for the stop sign. Perhaps the driver was driving westbound and hit Sean west of the side street. The point of the stop sign is to give the driver an extra opportunity to look at his surroundings. Had he looked then, he would have seen either Sean or a bus discharging passengers at a bus stop. Yet by the time he reached Sean, he was going so fast that even a screech of brakes would slow him down only enough to propel Sean over 100 feet. In other words, either he failed to stop at the stop sign or he accelerated very rapidly in a setting in which pedestrians are present or are likely to be stepping off of buses. Furthermore, if Sean had been coming from the south side of the street (the side with the buses), as he most likely was given where he was coming from, Sean had to walk across an entire lane before reaching the lane with the car (assuming the car was in the proper lane). Perhaps the driver was driving eastbound and hit Sean west of the side street. At that point he should have been slowing down for not only a stop sign but also a mandatory right turn. And, again, pedestrians are to be expected in the vicinity of bus stops. Perhaps the driver was driving eastbound and hit Sean east of the side street. In that case he was driving the wrong way on a one-way street. Whoops. Or perhaps, as the article states, the screech of brakes or the contact with Sean took place at the intersection itself, an intersection with stop signs in all legal directions of (motorized) travel. |
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| (186660) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 08:47:59 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:44:57 2007. All speculation, and no more factual than anything anyone else has said here. Maybe that's what happened, maybe it's not. There is not enough information in any article to assume any of that actually happened. |
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| (186661) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Jan 21 08:49:34 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 03:30:28 2007. The best and most alert driver in the world can have a problem stopping when someone just decides to walk into traffic.It's an accident waiting to happen, unfortunately. |
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| (186662) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:50:05 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 08:44:16 2007. So you're saying that Sean was mimicking a statue until the instant before the car arrived? |
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| (186663) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:52:00 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 08:47:59 2007. I'm afraid Michael Dolgonos, 34, was in his garage when he heard the screech of brakes at Veterans Ave. and E. 71st St., followed by a sickening thud is not speculation. |
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| (186666) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Jan 21 08:59:46 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:52:00 2007. Oh yes, the earwitness account, sounds like :Dyour pal, Fred |
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| (186669) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 09:06:59 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by Fred G on Sun Jan 21 08:59:46 2007. Exactly. |
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| (186671) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 09:07:41 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:50:05 2007. I don't know, I wasn't there....but then neither were you either. |
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| (186684) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 21 10:44:46 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 08:47:59 2007. I don't understand the rush shown here to solve the issue. It is better to wait for the official investigation, which will have access to information we don't. |
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| (186689) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 21 11:12:32 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by David of Broadway on Sun Jan 21 08:50:05 2007. it's possible. |
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| (186768) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jan 21 15:39:57 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 08:44:16 2007. *There are many times when you can't swerve because there is another car or some other obstacle right next to you*Yikes, rather hit a person than some suv or parked car next to you. Nice. |
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| (186769) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Jan 21 15:41:26 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jan 21 15:39:57 2007. LOL, no, it's not a choice, it's more like 'you can't swerve out of the way' as in hitting the other car is only going to guide you toward the pedestrian.your pal, Fred |
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| (186776) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jan 21 15:55:49 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by Fred G on Sun Jan 21 15:41:26 2007. I don't know why I doubt that at 10mph.Even so, a professional defensive driving skill class can rectify a few persons fears on this board. I had wanted to take one. But hitting a person instead of a car is on par with being a woman driver. :) |
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| (186831) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 18:22:34 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jan 21 15:39:57 2007. What the hell are you talking about? If there is another car next to you, or some other encumerance, you may not even have the luxury of being able to "swerve" away. Not to mention a head on collision can also happen. |
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| (186833) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 18:24:12 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Jan 21 10:44:46 2007. Neither do I. I have no idea how I even got involved in this. All I originally said is that it could be the fault of both the pedestrian and driver each sharing the blame. Without knowing more facts than what were presented here, it's hard to say either way. |
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| (186835) | |
Re: He was in my class |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Jan 21 18:31:02 2007, in response to Re: He was in my class, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Jan 21 18:24:12 2007. I have no idea how I even got involved in this.LMAO!! It's the Vortex! your pal, Fred |
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