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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:42:45 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:38:54 2006. Agreed, but what are the pictures you see all over the place for Thanksgiving? Pilgrims, the people who started the holiday, and were the first pioneers in this country. |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:45:05 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:42:01 2006. But it's origins are far from religious, and certainly nothing imagined by Jesus, or the early church. It's origins are not really religious, other than it's name, it's a day that became relgious, and actually has lost a lot of it's relgion too as retailers continue to transform it once again. |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:45:55 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:42:45 2006. Right, the pilgrims who celebrated the harvests back when the country was in its infancy. |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:46:52 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:16:44 2006. Right, that's what you were taught and believe. (Not that there's anything wrong with that - please don't get me wrong). |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:47:43 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:45:05 2006. I don't care where it came from if TODAY it is religious. |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:53:06 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:46:52 2006. And you were taught and believe what I said about Christianity, no? So that's why yours is more "made up", in my opinion. I'm comparing what I believe about my religion to what you believe about your religion. Just based on that comparison, mine was created and "happened" all at once, while yours was created well after the important events really happened. Not that there's anything *wrong* with that. But if you are going to say that a certain holiday wasn't sectioned by Jesus, then you have to admit that your whole religion was never sanctioned by Jesus. |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:53:45 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:39:50 2006. The alcohol being bad myth is some other thing made up by religious fanatics.John 2:1-11 Jesus Changes Water to Wine 1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine." 4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come." 5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you." 6Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[a] 7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. 8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, 9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now." 11This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him. |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 12:01:13 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:53:06 2006. And you were taught and believe what I said about Christianity, no?Yes, but again, that's only because that was fed to me. If I was raised Lutheran, I'd be Lutheran. If I was raised Jewish, I'd be Jewish. If I was raised Muslim, I would be a Muslim. And so forth (unless I would have converted which a small percentage of people do from one religion to another). But that's the point. Christianity WAS started by Jesus, even if evolved or changed over the years. Christians embrace the Jewish Bible as their Old Testament (there are readings from it in every service), but believe the New Testament changes things in the New Covenant with God. Christains believe that Jesus' path was the correct path, as it diverged from the Jewish Religion. Jews believe it was the wrong path, and stayed on their walkway, while the Christians broke off, and remained on their walkway. Later, other path's broke off further down the roads. |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 12:03:26 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:47:43 2006. But it's not, at least aside from an hour in church on one day, for those that chose to go. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 12:26:21 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 12:03:26 2006. Even if you don't go to Church, it could still be religious for you. |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 12:45:46 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by BMTLines on Tue Dec 26 23:33:22 2006. I wonder what:Arise, ye workers, from your slumber; is in Swahili? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 12:49:18 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by BMTLines on Tue Dec 26 23:33:22 2006. I already mentioned here that Marenga is a Marxist. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 12:50:39 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 12:49:18 2006. Sorry, Karenga. |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 12:50:47 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:28:08 2006. Some churches only accepted only recently, very recently in the scheme of things.And some of the stranger ones still don't. My grandparents are Christadelphians, and they regard Christmas Day as entirely secular (and attaching any religious meaning to it is "those Papists being led astray by Sol Invictus and the Emperor Constantine"). |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 12:53:17 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by BMTlines on Wed Dec 27 10:30:20 2006. By that measure, Kwanzaa already qualifies.It will qualify if it is still around a thousand years from now - till then it doesn't IMO. So Thanksgiving doesn't qualify yet? |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 12:56:23 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:16:44 2006. that the parts written after "the Jews received the Torah in the desert" were written in real-time (still as told over by G-d).Does that include the book of Daniel, or has it been acknowledged to be a work of Maccabaean fiction yet? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:07:24 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 11:05:13 2006. Um, the whole Christian religion is made upYou don't know that. |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by tracksionmotor on Wed Dec 27 13:08:05 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Tue Dec 26 21:15:01 2006. Wie est SHERMHEAD? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:08:34 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:43:04 2006. It wasn't a holiday sanctioned by Jesus. It IS a made up holidayIt's definitely not a "made-up" holiday insofar that it preceded Jesus and some pagans decided to stick Jesus' name on it. Its true origins are rather insidious . . . |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:12:50 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 12:01:13 2006. Christains believe that Jesus' path was the correct path, as it diverged from the Jewish ReligionTo be frank, it didn't diverge from the Hebrew religion; but it certainly diverged from the corruptions in the Jewish religion that were injected by association with the non-Jewish religions around them (those of Edom, Ammon, Moab, Babylon, Philistia, Assyria, Egypt ad nauseam). Certainly didn't help back in Solomon's time when he married all those foreign wives (seven hundred of 'em, not to mention his 300 concubines) who convinced him to build shrines to their gods (1 Kings chapter 11) . . . |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 13:13:42 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:08:34 2006. Agreed, but it's made up as for as a religious holiday goes. And it wasn't pagans that put the name on it, it was Christians taking a pagan holiday and adding his name to it. |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:13:55 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Peter Rosa on Wed Dec 27 10:57:02 2006. It's a state holiday in Connecticut.It's also a holiday in the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and a few other countries. In the UK, we get a four-day weekend, with the usual result of all roads leading vaguely towards south-west England being a permanent traffic jam from about midday Maundy Thursday to midday Good Friday. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:16:04 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by zdeno on Tue Dec 26 19:17:15 2006. That was originally religious. Therefore it must be BS by your communistic standards. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:17:58 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Edwards! on Tue Dec 26 23:17:07 2006. Stop being a jerkGood luck trying to get him to listen . . . |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:18:48 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by RonInBayside on Tue Dec 26 12:24:29 2006. B7 yu0 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:21:00 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 13:13:42 2006. it wasn't pagans that put the name on it, it was Christians taking a pagan holiday and adding his name to itNo, it was pagans who called themselves Christian. It became "Christmas" in 354 AD when Bishop Liberus used that date, seemingly arbitrarily. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:22:47 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by zdeno on Tue Dec 26 17:26:49 2006. Wow, you're quite the commie. Would you have us all working seven days a week, 365¼ days a year? |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:24:29 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 01:47:33 2006. New Years Day -- Internationally recognized celebration of the New Year. Oh Bullshit. International Day to Recover From Hangovers.Or a nice excuse to listen to the broadcast of Johann Strauss waltzes from Vienna... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 13:25:39 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 12:53:17 2006. Thanksgiving was declared a holiday by the U.S. government. They also give the day off to federal workers. AFAIK, Christmas has not been declared a holiday by the U.S. government. They simply give the day off to federal workers in light of the fact that so many of them celebrate it. |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:26:45 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by RonInBayside on Wed Dec 27 10:01:33 2006. but when I left the wedding, frankly, I was pissed.Hopefully in the British sense of the word too... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 13:26:46 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 12:56:23 2006. No idea. I'd have to ask a Rabbi. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 13:28:23 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:07:24 2006. I gave my rationale. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 13:29:22 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:13:55 2006. Don't you also have two days for Christmas too? In Holland, and some European countries, the 26th is a day off too. |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:30:07 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:25:04 2006. "Valentine's Day, Halloween, Mother's Day and Father's Day are all piles of dreck holidays meant to extort money from us or contrived to forcibly celebrate something that should be celebrated without the need for a specific day"Those are all "Hallmark" holidays. Mothers' Day is ultimately Refreshment Sunday (aka Laetare Sunday, after the proper introit) in disguise. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 13:30:58 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:12:50 2006. So he could have diverged away from the corruptions and back into the non-corrupted Judaism, right? Instead his followers made a whole new religion, after he was dead. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 13:32:03 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:16:04 2006. It still is a religious day, the "Solemnty of Mary, Mother of God" in the Catholic Church, but not because it just happens to be New Years day. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 13:32:50 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 13:30:58 2006. He changed a lot of stuff from the Jewish Religion before he was dead. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:44:09 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by SilverFox on Wed Dec 27 01:47:33 2006. Presidents Day -- Respect for what has become all our past Chief ExecutivesBah. That's not the real reason. That came about because they didn't want to add a holiday when the MLK Day came about. So, Washington/Lincoln B'days? Teh Gone. (Never liked Raygun pulling that move . . . oh noes, an extra day off during the year?? That's for those lazy Europeans . . .) And what do you mean by "what has become"? That's synonymous (almost) with "what has befallen".   The Fourth of July -- National Interest Nothing beyond? That little document called the "Declaration of Independence" might not have something to bear on this day . . . ?  Labor Day -- Honoring WORKERS. Not welfare queens, not chiselers Not management either. 
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 13:49:47 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 10:27:29 2006. Somewhere further up in this thread. |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:50:46 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 12:50:39 2006. Does that mean Marenga's really a Karxist? |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 13:53:34 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:05:02 2006. I said it was debatable if it fit the description of a non-BS holiday and explained why that was the case for me (and quite possibly, other people in my situation as well). |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 13:54:19 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 11:15:53 2006. I never said I don't recognize the secular calendar. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:55:09 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Dec 27 13:54:19 2006. Insofar as the Roman emperors were recognized as deities, it's not "secular". |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:55:51 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 13:32:03 2006. Uh-oh. Watch for zdeno to brand it as BS now. |
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Re: Kwanzaa begins today |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:56:07 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 13:12:50 2006. To be frank, it didn't diverge from the Hebrew religion; but it certainly diverged from the corruptions in the Jewish religion that were injected by association with the non-Jewish religions around them (those of Edom, Ammon, Moab, Babylon, Philistia, Assyria, Egypt ad nauseam).Or alternatively, the Jewish religion is probably a more corrupt form of a proto-Semitic religion than those of its neighbours, and moving closer to the neighbours was counterintuitively purification of the religion... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 13:56:19 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 13:32:50 2006. Why did he do that? |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:57:24 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 13:29:22 2006. Don't you also have two days for Christmas too?In England and Wales. The Scots don't get Boxing Day - they have two days to recover from Hogmanay instead. |
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Posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:58:44 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Dec 27 13:32:03 2006. No, it's because it happens to be the octave of Christmas. And Christmas happens to be where it is because of pagan ideas of rebirth and the New Year... |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Dec 27 14:00:19 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:56:07 2006. huh? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 27 14:02:38 2006, in response to Re: Kwanzaa begins today, posted by Rail Blue on Wed Dec 27 13:56:07 2006. Not likely. Otherwise we would have a perpetual state of Israel. |
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