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| Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive (1624942) | |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:45:18 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 12:30:13 2019. Yeah, because in your mind if it's not a True Bill conviction, it MUST have been swept under the rug, facts be damned. Especially in such a high-profile case we're no DA in his right mind would take any shortcuts. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:45:26 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:41:48 2019. If there was going to be "community unrest", e.g., a riot, that would have happened either at the time of the video going viral, or after the grand jury refused to indict Pantaleo.That didn't occur to you? |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 12:46:01 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:41:48 2019. It's one thing for a high ranking official to go to a funeral to avoid community unrest.It's totally different for a professional scientist to decide, I am going to perjure myself and possibly ruin my career and my whole future, by lying, just to avoid community unrest. In addition, you have it backwards. Had she written a report that said that Garner died totally of his own bad health and not because of any exertion of force on his body, that's what would have prevented community unrest. There really is no obvious incentive for her to lie about the cause of death she perceived. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:46:34 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:45:18 2019. Unless he didn't want the case to proceed to an even higher-profile trial. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 12:46:36 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:43:17 2019. Hey, you're the one who made the silly post about him not dying right away, not me. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:47:07 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 12:46:01 2019. PWNED! |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 12:47:35 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:45:18 2019. I have never said that the DA swept this under the rug. I am saying he is the one who is most accused of that course of action. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 12:48:45 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:43:44 2019. ¿Verdad? ¿El fiscal de Staten Island tiene SIDA? Si no verdad, creo que esto es difamatorio. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:49:02 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:32:11 2019. I don't fall for that dog whistling name-calling, that doesn't affect me. He wasn't white, he's Italian!FACTS are Fat Albert resisted arrest, causing his own death. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:49:51 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:45:26 2019. The mainstream media keeps on pushing for another one, hence all the coverage. It's only an NYPD disciplinary hearing, nothing more, nothing less. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:50:27 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 12:46:01 2019. Using a train of thought, why did the other doctor testify that it wasn't a Chokehold? He's also a scientist, correct? |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:51:27 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:49:02 2019. No, Garner was choked to death by a cop who used a prohibited maneuver on him. The video shows it, the ME's report proves it, and now she has supported her written findings with sworn testimony.Stop, already. You're wrong. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:53:00 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 12:46:36 2019. He didn't. Nor was he initially unconscious. His Fat Bastard self made him get an asthma attack which he never recovered from |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:53:15 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:50:27 2019. You mean the other doctor who is the NYPD surgeon, and who never examined Garner's body? |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:54:14 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:53:00 2019. That is in direct contradiction to the ME's sworn statement and forensic examination. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 12:54:44 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:32:11 2019. I'm coming around to the point of view that Pantaleo choked Garner, causing his death, but it was not murder. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:55:17 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:46:34 2019. That's not how it works. And we all know that because Pantaleo did nothing wrong oh, he would have been acquitted! Everyone knows that. But this goes to show you what happens when the modern cops tiptoe around resisting perps. A couple of decades ago, a quick wood shampoo would have had him cuffed and compliant in no time. Yes, it looks bad to the people that don't know any better, but it was a much more effective way of gaining compliance instead of the dancing around the police have to do nowadays. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 12:55:37 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 12:47:35 2019. Fair enough. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:57:22 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 12:54:44 2019. Given that Pantaleo choked Garner, something the NYPD expressly, in boldface, prohibits its cops from doing, what level of legal responsibility should Pantaleo bear for his actions? |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 13:11:54 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:57:22 2019. Given that? Do you know what the elements of murder are? |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 13:30:54 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:51:27 2019. Just so you know, using a prohibited NYPD procedure, doesn't mean it's illegal. NYPD doesn't want you shooting at a car that is trying to run you over, if you do, you only violate an internal rule, not the law. I hope everyone here reading this, realizes it. Same with choking, had Pantalei decided to employ that.You'll see. 😎 |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 13:31:24 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:54:14 2019. See for yourself! |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 13:33:23 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:53:15 2019. Just so you know, the NYPD doctors examine every body involved in a death in custody.How you didn't know this I'm shocked. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 13:34:17 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:57:22 2019. It's a rule, like not wearing white socks. Remember that. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 13:36:19 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 13:11:54 2019. The ME ruled that Garner was killed by compression of his neck caused by the application of a chokehold by Pantaleo.If that is true, then: 1. Pantaleo used a maneuver he knew was both dangerous and forbidden by the NYPD in his attempt to arrest Garner, disregarding the clear and present danger to human life posed by the use of such a maneuver; 2. The use of this forbidden chokehold caused Garner to become unable to breathe; 3. Garner subsequently, and as a direct result of Pantaleo's actions, became unresponsive and later expired. An ordinary person doing all of these things to Garner would have been charged with assault, criminal obstruction of breathing, and manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide at a minimum. I will grant that intent on Pantaleo's part is absent, but intent is not a necessary element for murder in New York State. Nevertheless, I didn't ask you if you felt Garner was murdered. I asked you what level of legal responsibility did you think Pantaleo should bear for Garner's death? |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Dave on Wed May 15 13:39:30 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:09:17 2019. I never said there was a problem. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 13:40:24 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 13:36:19 2019. IAW manslaughter.Intent is a necessary element unless the defendant has committed some serious felony (felony murder). That is not applicable here. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 13:43:27 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 13:30:54 2019. Tell ya what: Positoining a patient on my stretcher face down isn't illegal, but it is expressly forbidden by the Operating Guide because of its clear danger to the patient's airway and cervical spine, and because CPR cannot be performed on a prone patient.Let's say I do it anyway, because the patient is a fighting EDP and the cops have put him on my bus face-down. Halfway to the hospital he starts gagging, and by the time I get the cop to uncuff him and turn him over, he is blue, dead and gone. It's "not illegal" right? WRONG! It's called "depraved indifference to human life". I knew not to put a patient in that position, and why it was dangerous to do so. I did it anyway. I'll be doing my appeals from jail, and so should Pantaleo have been. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 13:52:29 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 12:51:27 2019. The testimony stated the maneuver sparked an asthma attack that led to death. You make it sound like this guy asphyxiated Garner with his bare hands. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 13:54:17 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 13:52:29 2019. He did. The chokehold was the primary mechanism of injury. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 14:03:11 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 13:52:29 2019. The medical examiner says that something or someone serous damaged his trachea, which led to inability to breathe, which led to the asthma attack.Do you think she is mistaken? |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 14:03:23 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 13:54:17 2019. Whatever the officer did led to a series of unfortunate and tragic events. But whatever he did set off a series of events that killed Garner. The officer did not kill this man with that maneuver alone. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:05:47 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 13:43:27 2019. That has to proven that you acted recklessly.Fat Albert caused his own death |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 14:07:04 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 14:03:11 2019. All I said was that the maneuver led to a series of events that ultimately led to death. Specifically an asthma attack.I'm not an M.E. nor did I examine the body or any reports or conclusions drawn from such. Having said that I trust the professional's report to be accurate and true. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:07:21 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 13:36:19 2019. Absolutely not |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:08:06 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 13:54:17 2019. Are you blind?! Watch the video! |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:08:41 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 14:03:11 2019. It was his body on the ground. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 14:10:25 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 14:07:04 2019. How can a takedown maneuver do that? |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 14:11:27 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 14:03:23 2019. No and no.The officer did not kill Garner. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 14:14:10 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 14:10:25 2019. I'm just going by the report from the Daily News today. Any number of things are possible besides asthma like a heart attack or stroke I suppose. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 14:14:12 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:05:47 2019. Pantaleo knew he was not supposed to be applying chokeholds, and why doing that was dangerous.He did it anyway. That's reckless indifference. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 14:15:37 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:08:06 2019. I have, many times. You are the one who refuses to see what the video actually depicts. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 14:25:30 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 14:11:27 2019. I said that the officer didn't kill him. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:47:22 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 14:14:12 2019. New York State says he can. Even though he didn't. He reached around his sternum to pull him down so he can be cuffed. I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand?I hope you are a better EMT then you are an armchair lawyer |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:47:55 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 14:15:37 2019. I've told you numerous times exactly what it depicts |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 15:07:38 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 14:03:23 2019. The officer did not kill this man with that maneuver alone.The medical examiner disagrees with you. She says the damage to the trachea made everything else happen. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 15:09:10 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:47:22 2019. New York State says he canNYC says he can't. That suffices to get him fired. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed May 15 15:30:23 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 15:07:38 2019. Did I or did I not say that what he did led to what happened. He did not suffocate this person to death on the street. It put into motion a sequence of events. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 15:31:19 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:47:22 2019. Under depraved or reckless indifference, New York State says he can't. |
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Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 15 15:32:08 2019, in response to Re: Anarchists Block FDR Drive, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 14:47:55 2019. Yes, a police officer choking a suspect using a forbidden maneuver. |
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