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| Whats Happening to Coney Island? (153998) | |
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Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Sat Sep 23 21:48:23 2006, in response to Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sat Sep 23 21:41:26 2006. Disney? Like Disney Quest or a PleasureIsland kinda thing?Disney used to build these things called DisneyQuest, a five story arcade. But most of them closed except for Chicago I believe. Those are more like a department store in a mall. It's big but not the whole mall. |
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Posted by L Train on Sat Sep 23 22:12:15 2006, in response to Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sat Sep 23 21:41:26 2006. Hopefully they add new rides because I'm tired of seeing the same things every year. |
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Re: What's Happening to Coney Island? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Sep 23 22:40:09 2006, in response to Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sat Sep 23 21:41:26 2006. I thought you were documenting a current event, to the effect that Coney Island is degenerating out of control. Couldja title the post a bit more clearly? Thanks . . . |
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Posted by tracksionmotor on Sat Sep 23 23:24:21 2006, in response to Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sat Sep 23 21:41:26 2006. The concept would be like a 'Six Flags' park. I don't think the native aboriginals would appreciate 'stars and bars' so it will be more like 'Little Mermaid' with breast reduction...family style. Just so happens that I went to DisneyLand at the age of five.......in 1959.NOTHING will surpass FREEDOMLAND (first year) |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Sep 23 23:40:58 2006, in response to Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sat Sep 23 21:41:26 2006. Well the rising costs of transportation could make it a viable vacation alternative. |
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Posted by This is Grand on Sun Sep 24 00:01:25 2006, in response to Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sat Sep 23 21:41:26 2006. No Disney, please! If you want a theme park, go to Six Flags.Coney Island should be rehabilitated and restored to what it used to look like. |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Sep 24 00:04:01 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by This is Grand on Sun Sep 24 00:01:25 2006. 'Coney Island should be rehabilitated and restored to what it used to look like.' which era? |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 24 00:51:15 2006, in response to Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sat Sep 23 21:41:26 2006. I don't know. I heard stories of construction of a hotel and all sorts of new projects to rise Coney island from the ashes. But it's very quiet with not even a shovel of dirt being turned.I hope major developers didn't back out again. A world class beach and a new subway terminal is crying for rebirth. But it's eerily quiet. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Sun Sep 24 02:00:43 2006, in response to Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sat Sep 23 21:41:26 2006. Excellent question! I've lost track of the number of "redevelopment" plans I've seen for Coney-- the zaniest being Mike Bloomberg's plan to enclose the Cyclone in a glass dome for year-round operation.But I start my comments admitting to everyone that I'm a BEACH FREAK! The Coney/Brighton beach strip is an absolute jewel in New York City's crown. (Rockaway is a great beach too but for most people, it takes way to long to get to.) My first visit to Coney-- long before I moved here-- was heart-breaking. The beach erosion was awful. And there was a "thuggishness" about the whole scene. Much improved these days! When I'm doing my beach freak thing, I gravitate more toward the Brighton end than Coney-- sometimes I need the tranquility of beach-ness, not honky-tonk. But to your question. No doubt, Coney/Brighton will see some improvements and additions but the 1920s, with resort hotels and Disney-esque theme parks won't happen. For two reasons, I believe. ONE-- is that the season is just too short this far north. Hard core beach freaks like me will "stretch" the season at both ends with temps in the upper 60s. Most people won't. Only the Russians of Brighton and renegade Canadians like me have the fortitude for the lower-end beach temps. TWO-- Coney/Brighton is overwhelmingly residential. There's just no room, as far as I can see, for multi-acre, mega-development projects. I guess I should add that I don't want "our" beach overrun with tourists who, generally, come to NYC for our "real" attractions. Lots of other places have nice beaches and nothing else. So let's keep the NYC beaches our little secret. |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Sep 24 04:37:03 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by UWS Greg on Sun Sep 24 02:00:43 2006. beach freak or beach bum?do you know Don Muraco? |
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Posted by Transit Guy on Sun Sep 24 08:41:28 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by monorail on Sun Sep 24 00:04:01 2006. Thats a good concept but how is it possible to do that when we do need money (Luna Park looked prety grand in the photos I saw). Also, how could we bring back the Thunderbolt rollercoaster (1 of the 3 famous rollercoasters there at the time) when Keyspan park is on the area. If it were to be restored I think they would have to add current rides also (like steel rollercoasters etc.). But I think it would be cool to see it back to the way it was, i hear the place was booming back in the day. Oh does anyone know what happened to that merry go round that people were able to throw metal rings? Thanks |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Sep 24 10:26:02 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by UWS Greg on Sun Sep 24 02:00:43 2006. I'm surprised that no one has proposed building a gambling casino at Coney Island. It wouldn't even require a change in state law; just find a long-lost descendant of the Canarsie Tribe and build a Foxwoods-style Indian casino.My LIRR/NYCT blog |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Sep 24 11:20:40 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sun Sep 24 08:41:28 2006. 'that merry go round'think it was saved from being auctioned, the city may have purchased it |
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Posted by ALP44 on Sun Sep 24 15:12:09 2006, in response to Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Sat Sep 23 21:41:26 2006. It's made a major comeback from the 70's and 80's. A new terminal and Keyspan Park were part of Coney Izland's rebirth. I didn't hear anything about Disney coming to Brooklyn but they sure did turn Times Square around. The only classic rides still remaining are the Wonder Wheel, the Himalaya and the Cyclone. The merry-go-round on Surf Ave is still there but not in operation at the moment. In recent years, we have lost classics like the Hell Hole and the ever popular Jumbo Jet roller coaster(not counting Thunderbolt coaster and parachute jump). I think the Astroland Tower(aka Hot97 or KTU Tower) is also no longer operating. I believe the Zipper might still be there but I won't bet the rent on it. My father loved riding the Hammer and the Hell Hole. Me personally, I go to C.I. just for the beach and,drool drool, the FOOD. I agree with another post that we need some new rides but where are we going to put them is the big question.Until then..... ALP 44 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Sep 24 16:40:11 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by ALP44 on Sun Sep 24 15:12:09 2006. The Astroland Tower was operating 2 weeks ago. |
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Posted by New Brunswick Station on Sun Sep 24 18:17:03 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by ALP44 on Sun Sep 24 15:12:09 2006. A baseball park, a renovation, and two bits of tumbleweed do not a comeback make. There needs to be more. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 24 18:40:51 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by orange blossom special on Sat Sep 23 21:48:23 2006. No, at some point in the early 90's, Disney did have an eye on Coney Island. It never materialized however. It would have revitalized the area, as Disney was a powerful company back then. They are now, but they have eroded a bit.When they were talking about Coney Island, it was before the built the Tokyo Disney, and I think before they did the one in Paris too, but not sure. The Paris one originally was not doing well, but it is doing much better in recent years, but I think one of the reasons the Coney Island venture never materialized was because of the failure of Eurodisney when it first opened. At some point, they renamed it Disneyland Paris, and it is doing better now. Anyway, look what happened to Times Square. Before Disney bought the New Amsterdam Theater (which was in complete shambles, as well as the rest of Times Square at the time), no one was investing a dime in Times Square. It took the power of Disney at the time to get the ball rolling there, and wow, did it ever... |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 24 19:24:01 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 24 18:40:51 2006. As I was told, it took the chutzpah of a guy named Bullard who successfully blew off Disney when they made an offer to buy his disused Shore movie theater.After Disney made an offer to buy the theater, Bullard upped the ante asking for more. Disney told him to stuff his theater. The Shore Theater remains disused and Disney is long gone. Another happy ending from a Noo Yawker ! Bullard was said to own the abandoned Thunderbolt roller coaster. Mayor Guiliani had the Thunderbolt demolished citing safety concerns. Now whether or not this was payback for Bullard showing Disney the door is any body's guess. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island? |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 24 19:34:21 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by ALP44 on Sun Sep 24 15:12:09 2006. It's made a major comeback from the 70's and 80's.I would call it a comeback but not a major comeback. Coney island still has less attractions than it used to, there are furniture stores and mini flea markets on Surf Ave where amusement establishments should be, all the pools are gone and the Parachute Jump is just a static display. In order for Coney Island to make a comeback, it needs to be restored as an amusement mecca and geared for year round use. It's rather quiet there even though the bathing season is over. As a child, Coney Island to me was the center of the universe, a place I begged my parents to take me to. Bill "Newkirk" |
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Posted by American Pig on Mon Sep 25 01:05:12 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Peter Rosa on Sun Sep 24 10:26:02 2006. They should just legalize gambling statewide, in every state. Of course if they did that, the idiotic state lotteries wouldn't make money anymore. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 25 01:48:34 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by American Pig on Mon Sep 25 01:05:12 2006. How you figure that? NJ lottery ain't losing any dough. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 25 03:34:46 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 24 19:24:01 2006. Interesting. The old Shore Theater is in shambles inside. A real shame, as you know that the Disney corporation would have beautifully restored the old place.The Shore Theater is right across the street from Nathans. There were some current interior photos of the Shore here, but they unfortunately have been taken down: http://cinematreasures.org/theater/595/ |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Mon Sep 25 17:38:27 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by ALP44 on Sun Sep 24 15:12:09 2006. There are two amusement ride companies at Coney-- Astroland and Deno's. It sometimes happens that one is open but not the other as the season winds down and weather is iffy. Last Sunday, for example, Deno's (main attraction is the Ferris wheel) was open while Astroland (main attraction is the Cyclone) was closed. Both *can* be open thru mid-October, weather permitting. My experience is that Astroland chickens out first and closes down if the weather looks threatening for the day. |
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Posted by Transit Guy on Mon Sep 25 17:41:04 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 25 03:34:46 2006. I think they really should put that theatre into use but without removing any of its stuff. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 25 20:36:56 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Mon Sep 25 17:41:04 2006. What would Disney have removed? Look at what they did to the New Amsterdam. Not only did they leave all the "stuff", they actually recreated "stuff" that was torn out of it over the years that never should have been removed to begin with! The place hasn't been in as in good of shape since it was new!This is what Disney did to the New Amsterdam, and what they would have done to the Shore: http://www.nps.gov/phso/sp/p09new1.htm |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 25 20:48:59 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 25 20:36:56 2006. Maybe we ought to get Disney to rebuild down in Lower Manhattan. We could get Hudson Terminal back; and for those fans of the Freedom Tower, that too. Perhaps some of those old ferry terminals would suddenly spring up in Battery Park City as well . . . |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 25 22:08:15 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 25 20:48:59 2006. How would a rebuilt Hudson Terminal, the Freedom Tower, etc benefit a company like Disney, as opposed to a theater? They are in the entertainment business - they wouldn't have a need for an archaic early 1900's office building or a modern 1776 foot office building either. |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Tue Sep 26 01:51:25 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Sep 25 22:08:15 2006. True, Disney is in the entertainment business but what "entertainment" would they bring to an old movie theater at the beach? As an enterntainment "business" (as you pointed out), they can use the Times Sq theaters to mount their productions. Is there a market for people who would go to Coney to see a "Broadway" show? What would they offer that would bring in the crowds down there? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 07:50:44 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Sep 26 01:51:25 2006. I have no idea, but a theater in coney island makes a lot more sense for the Disney Corp to want to renovate, restore, and use than a "rebuilt Hudson Terminal, freedom tower, etc" that was mentioned I assume sarcastically.Obviously, the restored Loew's Shore Theater was part of a bigger plan they had for the Coney Island area. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 26 08:25:24 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 07:50:44 2006. Myself, I'd like to see something happen that's between what it is now and a Disney-fied place. IMO, Disney adds a certain non-local 'fakeness' to any area they touch. To be fair, they do get the job done, moreso than any NY entity/corporation could.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 09:17:56 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 26 08:25:24 2006. I agree Fred. As "fake" as the Times Square we have now appears to be, it's a helluva lot healthier to New York City than what was there before Disney pioneered into the area 10-15 years ago.People that want the old "Luna Park-esque" Coney Island of yesteryear are dreaming. It will never come back again. It's over, it was a different era. What a company that Disney can do is actually get the ball rolling there, which no one else appears to be able to do, after decades of failed attemps. I mean really, if Disney was able to pioneer into the old hooker, crime, and blight ridden Times Square that it was when Disney purchased the New Amsterdam Theater, they could clean anything up. It's really all moot though, as I think it has been 5-10 years since Disney showed any interest in Coney Island, when the deal on the old dilapitated Loews Shore Theater fell through. |
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Posted by Bob Andersen on Tue Sep 26 10:36:51 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Newkirk Images on Sun Sep 24 19:34:21 2006. As a child, Coney Island to me was the center of the universe, a place I begged my parents to take me to.Me too. I especially loved Steeplechase Park with its horse race ride, the giant slides and the barrels of fun. 
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Posted by UWS Greg on Tue Sep 26 10:43:54 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 09:17:56 2006. Some might argue that the "true" pioneer in Times Square was the Virgin Record store, the first of the larger legit developers.As a mega-corporation with "think-tank" employees, Disney offers more than "getting the ball rolling." Their "marketeers" have a sense of what tourists want-- and Times Square is about tourism. It's a lot better than what it was, as you point out, 15 years ago and except for a bunch of electric lightbulbs, there's nothing "New York" about it. Red Lobster, the Olive Garden, Toys R Us, chain perfume stores-- damn, might as well be at a mall in Boise, Idaho! LOL! But the "safe" environment of the restored Times Sq has the spill-over effect of benefitting other NY institutions such as the theater district. Regarding Coney, I wonder if there's a mood, a spirit, a "funkiness" that should be preserved even in the face of a make-over. A theme park and an Olive Garden would rob the place of a New York-- and Brooklyn!!-- uniqueness. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 12:08:39 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Sep 26 10:43:54 2006. I ate at an Olive Garden in Times Square about 15-20 years ago, so.....it may not be in the same place as then, but it was already there when it was seedy. Houlihans and other chains were already there also when it was still a pit. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 12:12:42 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 12:08:39 2006. BTW, when did the Virgin Store open? I don't remember it being there before 1995 or so, and that's also around the time Disney bought the New Amsterdam, also in the early 90's. The New Amsterdam was purchased by Disney years before they finished renovating it. The question is, was the Virgin store a result of Disney purchasing the New Amsterdam (even if it wasn't renovated yet), but instead knowing Disney was coming to town, others followed to invest money. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 26 12:56:28 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Sep 26 10:43:54 2006. Yeah, a bunch of chain restaurants, record stores and Gap stores doesn't scream Coney Island to me either.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 13:49:37 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 26 12:56:28 2006. WHy would Disney coming to town mean record stores and the Gap though? Restaurants however, yes, would follow.At the same time though, the Coney Island of today is certainly not productive either. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 14:34:17 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Sep 26 10:43:54 2006. Red Lobster, the Olive Garden, Toys R Us, chain perfume stores--Damn, and just to add.....I can not even imagine Times Square without Disney's ESPN ZONE!!! I can't even count the amount of times I have been there! |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 14:46:18 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by This is Grand on Sun Sep 24 00:01:25 2006. No Disney, please! If you want a theme park, go to Six Flags.Oh yeah, THIS is much better than anything Disney could do:   Do you realize what a jewel Disney could make out of this mess if they followed the pattern of their Boardwalk or something? |
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Posted by UWS Greg on Tue Sep 26 15:32:30 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 12:12:42 2006. Pretty sure Virgin Record preceded everybody else to the "new" Times Sq. (At least among the first to open for business. Maybe Disney had purchased stuff but it was certainly not developed when Virgin opened.)Wonder what you mean by Coney being "productive." Do you mean making tons of money? I can't imagine anybody making "tons" by selling amusement rides or cholesterol-laden boardwalk food. The place is "productive" now if you mean that lots of tourists, including many Europeans and Asians, feel it should be seen. I know this not only from my personal obseration down there but also, working in midtown surrounded by tourist hotels (west 50s), in the warmer months if I stand outside for a break, it's guaranteed that someone will ask how to get to Coney several times per week. After the WTC, it's the most frequent question I'm asked. (Is it written on my face that I'm an expert in subway lines??? LOL) |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 15:37:00 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by UWS Greg on Tue Sep 26 15:32:30 2006. (At least among the first to open for business. Maybe Disney had purchased stuff but it was certainly not developed when Virgin opened.)Right, that was my point. Virgin may have come in there after hearing the stuff Disney was buying up, even if Disney hadn't completed the work on their buildings. The New Amsterdam Theater was in total shambles, when they bought it, and it took a few years to finish the renovations. I am pretty sure it was Disney that started buying the stuff, and other major companies hearing of this, knowing that values would be going up, followed suit. |
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Posted by Transit Guy on Tue Sep 26 19:25:39 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 14:46:18 2006. Will they restore or repair that in any way? |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Sep 26 20:15:24 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 13:49:37 2006. They run in packs.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 21:59:33 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Transit Guy on Tue Sep 26 19:25:39 2006. I don't believe Disney's interest in Coney Island ever materialized. Apparently the deal on the Loews Shore Theater, which would have been the centerpiece of their presence there, at least at the beginning fell through. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 22:10:10 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 21:59:33 2006. By the way, this is the Shore Theater I took in summer 2004: It looks not too bad on the outside, but I have seen photos of the interior, and it is in shambles. |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Sep 27 06:23:08 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by American Pig on Mon Sep 25 01:05:12 2006. They should just legalize gambling statewide, in every state.Of course, you realize that the Mashantuckets and Mohegans would disagree with you, as this would dilute their gambling clientele eventually. They're ecstatic about the way things are right now. your pal, Fred |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Sep 27 07:30:42 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Sep 26 22:10:10 2006. I had lunch yesterday at Nathan's. The Shore has scaffolding around the building. I don't know what's up, all the windows seem to have been replaced several years ago. Maybe Bullard is steam cleaning or repairing the mortar on the brick wall.Bill "Newkirk" |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 27 07:50:55 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Sep 27 07:30:42 2006. Yeah, even two years ago, the building looked nice on the outside.The inside though. Mark and RiptaHope posted some interior shots of the theater on cinematreasures.com, but unfortunately, both sets of photos are no longer online. The theater appears to be quite run down on the inside, judging by the photos. A shame really. It's not unrepairable though, it's not any worse than the New Amsterdam was. |
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Posted by Transit Guy on Wed Sep 27 15:33:37 2006, in response to Re: Whats Happening to Coney Island?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Sep 27 07:50:55 2006. Shambles meaning like repairable but costly or the Loew King (another grand theatre waiuting in decay). How bad is it really? Thanks |
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