Re: RyanCare unveiled

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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Tue Mar 7 14:30:02 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Chicagomotorman on Tue Mar 7 14:18:24 2017.* Truth.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Mar 7 14:50:14 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 14:28:48 2017.* There's a difference. You never claimed that ObamaCare is unconstitutional. It isn't.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Tue Mar 7 15:03:49 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 7 14:50:14 2017.* It certainly not unconstitutional but up until Obama, it was never the responsibility of government to provide and mandate healthcare for the entire population. I still maintain that the mandate should be unconstitutional.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by AlM* on Tue Mar 7 15:09:17 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 15:03:49 2017.* Justices Roberts and Kennedy disagree.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Tue Mar 7 15:26:25 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 7 15:09:17 2017.* Yeah, I heard that on 60 Minutes. I feel the decision was wrong.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Joe V* on Tue Mar 7 18:08:35 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 13:58:05 2017.* Car insurance is required by most states by whoever owns a car. We pay for endorsements on our policies for Under-insured and Un-insured mootorists Such insurance is required to prevent free-loading by those who cheat the system who then do not have the assets to pay for accidents, so we'll wind up paying much more for them tyhan we do now. Same insurance concept applies to health insurance. "Mandate" was first conjured up by Heritage Foundation for the same reason. They were and are CONSERVATIVES. It was NOT Obama's original desire. It IS an Actuarial Math necessity, or we will wind up paying for the all of the uninsured expenses at the emergency room, and for their premature heart disease, strokes, and amputations because they never got proper medical care and blood tests to prevent it. Preventive medicine is cheapest. Until ACA, medical debt was the leading cause of personal bankruptcies. The banks are not eating those costs. We all pay for their bankruptices through fees, higher interest rates on loans, or depressed savings rates. Insurance companies are in business to make money. The are not going to eat any costs either because some people decided to stay out of the system. They will spread the costs to us with premiums. Few in Congress have the mathematical background to understand the requirement of a mandate. Even the MD's, if they were Bio majors in college, have at best 2 semester of Calculus. That is nowhere near what they need to understand about this subject matter.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Mar 7 18:19:30 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 15:03:49 2017.* You didn't bring up the mandate in the prior post. How is it unconstitutional for the government to provide guaranteed healthcare, ignoring the issue of the mandate?
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by AlM* on Tue Mar 7 19:04:23 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 7 18:19:30 2017.* And if it were unconstitutional, somebody forgot to tell the Supreme Court about Medicare.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Stephen Bauman* on Tue Mar 7 19:11:46 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 13:58:05 2017.* When Obama care was introduced, it shifted the paradigm. Suddenly, healthcare became a right to be provided by government. Government subsidized healthcare suddenly became a right but it wasn't Obama who introduced it. It was introduced by the Roosevelt administration as a wartime measure. Companies were prohibited to increase wages under wartime price and wage controls. Some "fringe" benefits were permitted to be offered in lieu of increased wages. Company paid health insurance was one such fringe benefit. Moreover this fringe benefit was not subject to income tax on the part of the worker and its cost could be deducted by the company as a business expense. The US Government has been subsidizing healthcare as a "right" to those who received employer paid insurance. All the ACA did was extend that government subsidy to all instead of the few.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Joe V* on Tue Mar 7 19:31:07 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 7 19:11:46 2017.* And now with cradle-to-grave corporate career employment gone, so is that fringe benefit to a lot of workers: they are employed as "W2" 6-months, 12-months, etc contractors. Companies do not want commitments, no health insurance, not defined benefit pension. Figure that into your rate. All the more reason we need universal health care to bring down costs of individual policies.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Tue Mar 7 19:34:35 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 7 19:04:23 2017.* You are not required to use Medicare and you certainly do not directly pay for it.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Tue Mar 7 19:38:25 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 7 18:19:30 2017.* I'm not a lawyer and I'm not about to relitigate the case. The mandate is the main beam that supports ACA. You can't discuss ACA without including the individual mandate.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Tue Mar 7 19:42:12 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 7 19:11:46 2017.* That's not all ACA did. The individual mandate forced the uninsured to buy insurance or be penalized. That was never done before.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Stephen Bauman* on Tue Mar 7 20:24:42 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 19:42:12 2017.* The Supreme Court ruled that so-called mandate to be a tax that could be offset by tax credits for purchasing health insurance. There's no difference in the ACA and the proposed plan, except for what one calls it. In both cases a person is subject to an income tax that can be reduced by purchasing health insurance. I would suggest that the Supreme Court's labeling the "mandate" a "tax" was far better than their declaring tomatoes to be vegetables.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2Chinatown* on Tue Mar 7 20:26:33 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 7 20:24:42 2017.* "I would suggest that the Supreme Court's labeling the "mandate" a "tax" was far better than their declaring tomatoes to be vegetables." I disagree but that's what makes the world go around.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 20:41:53 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Chicagomotorman on Tue Mar 7 14:18:24 2017.* tell that to the congress etc who get free medical care
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 20:42:03 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 14:30:02 2017.* tell that to the congress etc who get free medical care
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 20:44:47 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Chicagomotorman on Tue Mar 7 14:18:24 2017.* mitch mconell gets free medical care he does not pay for it
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Mar 7 20:50:09 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 19:38:25 2017.* So you would be OK with a single payer system?
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2Chinatown* on Tue Mar 7 21:00:58 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Mar 7 20:41:53 2017.* It's part of the package they get through employment just like if you would work.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2Chinatown* on Tue Mar 7 21:01:38 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Mar 7 20:44:47 2017.* So does nancy Pelosi and diane Feinstein.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2Chinatown* on Tue Mar 7 21:02:21 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 7 20:50:09 2017.* No, I would not. But why do you care what I would like?
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 21:05:45 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2Chinatown on Tue Mar 7 21:01:38 2017.* why cant we get it
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 21:06:12 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2Chinatown on Tue Mar 7 21:00:58 2017.* what pakage ? where ?
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Tue Mar 7 21:09:14 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2Chinatown on Tue Mar 7 21:02:21 2017.* We were having a discussion on Constitutionality. I don’t care if you like something or not.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 21:13:34 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2Chinatown on Tue Mar 7 21:00:58 2017.* i see you dont live in the real world
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Tue Mar 7 21:56:43 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Mar 7 21:05:45 2017.* You can if you get a job
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 21:58:44 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 21:56:43 2017.* i am retired
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Tue Mar 7 22:00:16 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Mar 7 21:05:45 2017.* You can if you get a job
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 22:01:19 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 22:00:16 2017.* cant do construction work anymore i am 65
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Chicagomotorman* on Tue Mar 7 22:03:34 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Mar 7 21:58:44 2017.* You are retarded?
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 22:04:14 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Chicagomotorman on Tue Mar 7 22:03:34 2017.* disabled just now recovering
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Chicagomotorman* on Tue Mar 7 22:05:16 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Mar 7 22:04:14 2017.* Good
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Tue Mar 7 22:06:07 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Chicagomotorman on Tue Mar 7 22:05:16 2017.* thanks
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Wed Mar 8 00:05:33 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Tue Mar 7 22:01:19 2017.* So you have medicare
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Wed Mar 8 01:14:46 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Wed Mar 8 00:05:33 2017.* no medi-cal covered california
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by SMAZ* on Wed Mar 8 02:12:10 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 7 15:09:17 2017.* They both agree with him and so do I. In addition, Justice Kennedy also believed that the so-called mandate is also outside of the scope of the government's taxing power and that the entire law was unconstitutional.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by SMAZ* on Wed Mar 8 02:51:37 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Joe V on Tue Mar 7 19:31:07 2017.* Companies do not want commitments, no health insurance, Private companies shouldn't be asked to be social service agencies. Employer-provided health insurance needs to be phased out within a generation.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by SMAZ* on Wed Mar 8 02:55:42 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Mar 7 20:24:42 2017.* Indeed, it's no different than being subject to higher taxes for not having dependent children, owning a house or having a new electric car but getting money back in the form of tax credits/deductions/exemptions when you do. Nobody calls it the "child mandate", the "home-ownership mandate" or the "new electric car mandate".
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by ntrainride* on Wed Mar 8 05:29:01 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue Mar 7 15:03:49 2017.* does bring up questions. regarding the "responsibilties" of the government. has to be affordable, obviously. ultimately, sadly, but irrefutably...you're either healthy or you're not healthy. gov can't fix that. obviously, excepting accidents etc., best solution is: live as healthy as you can.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Joe V* on Wed Mar 8 06:43:36 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by SMAZ on Wed Mar 8 02:51:37 2017.* Then they'll have to compensate us buy at a far higher rate. It's already factored into higher hourly rates for W2's. There's reason for group insurance - its much cheaper to buy. You'll never bring down costs without a mandate and penalties.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Joe V* on Wed Mar 8 06:47:18 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by ntrainride on Wed Mar 8 05:29:01 2017.* Government can't fix it, eh ? Explain why Canada with universal health care has life expectancy of 3.3 years higher than Americans. "Live healthy" has nothing to do with the fact that most are genetically predisposed to having high cholesterol, bad hearts, diabetes, etc at a certain age.
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Re: RynoCare unveiled
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Mar 8 11:36:38 2017, in response to RyanCare unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 6 18:43:59 2017.* So what? Of course liberal Republicans would play games like this. Similar to Mitch McConnell and his "religious test" blather, which only proves he knows (and cares) diddly-squat about the Constitution.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Fred G* on Fri Mar 10 16:50:42 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 7 13:37:24 2017.* Of course it was.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by AlM* on Fri Mar 10 16:54:08 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 7 12:36:09 2017.* Pelosi states something in a way that can be misinterpreted - that's equal to permanent doom for Obamacare. Trump says hundreds of things that are just plain lies or where he claims he was misinterpreted. Well, that's just the way he talks. If Trump were held to the same standards as Pelosi, he'd being doing time for incenting the murder of Hillary Clinton.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Sat Mar 11 07:32:41 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 10 16:54:08 2017.* That sounds a like a little bit of paranoia.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by bingbong* on Sat Mar 11 09:37:04 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Sat Mar 11 07:32:41 2017.* Sounds pretty damn factual to me.
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Sat Mar 11 10:46:19 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by bingbong on Sat Mar 11 09:37:04 2017.* I'm sure that it would, to you. Do you want to explain how when Nancy pelosi said that "natural gas is a good alternative to fossil fuels" it was misinterpreted?
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sat Mar 11 10:52:55 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by R2ChinaTown on Sat Mar 11 10:46:19 2017.* What does that have to do with anything?
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Re: RyanCare unveiled
Posted by R2ChinaTown* on Sat Mar 11 10:58:25 2017, in response to Re: RyanCare unveiled, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 11 10:52:55 2017.* I'm sure that you should be able to figure it out in the context of my prior posting in this thread.
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