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| Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears (1115483) | |
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| (1116803) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:05:07 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 15:57:14 2013. I was driving in the 70s while you were shitting yourself at best. My father got that ticket before the 1970s.There's still plenty of laws that were on the books then that remain so to this day. So yes, in many cases that is true. |
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| (1116804) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:06:45 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 15:58:33 2013. ....and how many times have I been proven to be talking out of my ass?I like anyone can be mistaken on things (and am, just like anyone else), but I have never been caught blatantly making stuff up as you often are. |
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| (1116805) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 16:09:15 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 15:42:40 2013. Some of us still think that we're still living in the 80's here as well. Back in the 70's though, there weren't red light photofinish cameras on intersections, and it was your word against the cop's in court as to where your tires were. Pro tip: the cop was always right and you always paid up.I don't think that's changed either unless you were lucky enough to get nailed by a camera. |
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| (1116806) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:09:53 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:03:18 2013. First of all, that did not happen in the 1970s. So you are going on false information. The charge was running a yellow light. How could he have been charged with something you claim is not illegal? There's nothing subjective about it.You weren't alive when that law was in effect. You do need to ask someone who's an adult. |
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| (1116807) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:10:58 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:06:45 2013. You haven't disproven a thing here. Other than your age. |
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| (1116808) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:11:49 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:05:07 2013. I was driving in the 70s while you were shitting yourself at best.Wow aren't you mature. And I was driving in the 80's...so we are only within 10 years apart....) My father got that ticket before the 1970s. LOL. And again assuming (coming from you) this is a true story....first it's "happening in Garden City as we speak", next it happened in the 70's, now it's prior to the 70's. Love the moving goal posts!!! There's still plenty of laws that were on the books then that remain so to this day. So yes, in many cases that is true. And of course there are. But what does that have to do with this discussion? You live in the past? You assume that everything is just like it was when you were in your prime? |
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| (1116809) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 16:15:46 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 15:43:52 2013. You come armed with material from them all the time. If you're not reading them yourself, then obviously somebody else is reading them to you. No worries, but when spouting the fabrications of the right as fact, it affects your credibility as well. Subchat ain't the place to come for facts anyway, one ends up baffled. :) |
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| (1116810) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:15:57 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 15:52:35 2013. No more reliable than you are. After all, you never prove a thing you say. Why should anyone else?I made no specific claim on when my father got that ticket. It was for running a yellow light in Garden City. It stuck. When I learned to drive in the 70s it was still on the books. That's all the facts you get. Stop making shit up. |
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| (1116811) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 16:17:01 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 15:45:09 2013. Nevermind. :) |
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| (1116812) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:18:01 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:09:53 2013. First of all, that did not happen in the 1970s. So you are going on false information.First you claimed present time. Then You claimed it was in the 70s until it didn't work for your trolling anymore, then, as usual, you moved the goal posts, so now it's pre-70'. This is how you built the rep you have here. You weren't alive when that law was in effect. Which is utterly irrelevant. You do need to ask someone who's an adult. And that certainly doesn't describe you. The charge was running a yellow light. How could he have been charged with something you claim is not illegal? Again, if his tires were not fully in the intersection when the light changed, it would be a violation. AGain, assuming this is a factual story, which amounts to nothing coming from you. |
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| (1116813) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 16:19:02 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 15:54:08 2013. I did a little researching but came up empty on Nassau's previous ordinances on it. VTL 1111 began in 1988, was amended in 2001 for red light cameras and again in 2009. There's a new amendment sitting this year which expands on it. Suffice it to say that the "tires" standard didn't appear until 2001 and up until then it was up to local police to determine if you were yellow or red in the intersection. |
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| (1116814) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:22:18 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:18:01 2013. Wow you don't get it.Regardless of what happened, the charge was running a yellow light. You claim that was never illegal. Yet it was, and everyone in the region knew that about Garden City. You are failing on the basic premise and attempting to parse irrelevant and imagined "facts" about an incident you know nothing of. Stop trying to make shit up and tell me it was something I know it never was. |
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| (1116815) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:22:45 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:10:58 2013. You haven't disproven a thing here.And you haven't proved a thing. Some possibly made up story about someone who got a ticket from a cop that claimed one thing, and another who claimed another thing. And caught in a lie as usual, first it's present day, now it's "pre 70's". Other than your age. Huh???? |
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| (1116816) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:24:32 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:22:45 2013. Wrong. It wasn't imagined. The charge on the ticket was running a yellow light. YOU are the one insisting that isn't/wasn't (before NYS unified VTL) illegal in Garden City. |
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| (1116818) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:25:51 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 16:15:46 2013. You mean like the leftid others post here"?And When do I participate in Political posts? Aside from a random post every now and again, I haven't talked politics much at all in almost 2 years. Subchat ain't the place to come for facts anyway, one ends up baffled. Especially with people like you, bingbong, & co claiming "facts". |
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| (1116819) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:26:16 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 16:15:46 2013. You mean like the leftist talking posts you and others post here"?And When do I participate in Political posts? Aside from a random post every now and again, I haven't talked politics much at all in almost 2 years. Subchat ain't the place to come for facts anyway, one ends up baffled. Especially with people like you, bingbong, & co claiming "facts". |
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| (1116820) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:31:54 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:22:18 2013. You claim that was never illegal.I never claimed it was never illegal, I said that wasn't the case today. YOU originally claimed it was present time, then moved your goal post when called on it to the 70's, and then not realizing I am as old as I am, you then made it "pre-70's" when your trolling didn't work anymore. You are failing on the basic premise and attempting to parse irrelevant and imagined "facts" about an incident you know nothing of. And probably just made up judging by how you had been changing things as you went along. |
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| (1116821) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:34:39 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 16:19:02 2013. Well at least you attempted to substantiate her claims which is more than she did.Again, SHE was the one saying "to be forewarned" and claiming this was currently happening "in Garden City" and other municipalities, then moved it to the 70's when she wanted to try and troll about age (which doesn't make any sense), then moved it to "pre-70's" when that didn't work. Finally, she just now gets totally mature and instead says "if you were alive at the time". Really? |
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| (1116823) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:36:58 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Thu Oct 24 16:24:32 2013. I never ONCE claimed that wasn't the case in the past (as I don't know). You only used that as an argument when it was proven that you were wrong about the present). Instead of being an adult, you started this nonsense of the 70's (and then pre 70's).It was once legal to sell cocaine. So? It was once legal to smoke pot (and may be again one day). So? |
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| (1116824) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 16:45:39 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 16:34:39 2013. Well yeah ... background in journalism, I know how to research stuff. As to bingbong and traffic law, it was very arbitrary in Nassau and she's been out of there a long time. But she grew up there and that was how it worked then. And from what I glean from as deep as I dug, the same arbitrary nature of how law enforcement down there (and in places up here very much like Long Island) worked, red light cameras are actually a deterrent to how things got done.Let's be real here though - if you DO get a ticket and it's arbitrary, who's going to win between you and the cop if there ISN'T a photo to prove things? You pay the fine and collect your points. :) |
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| (1116833) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 24 17:37:04 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 16:19:02 2013. If you really did the research, you'd cite the sources as I did. |
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| (1116848) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 18:03:00 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 24 17:37:04 2013. New York Vehicle and Traffic law and legislative documents? I went for "NYS VTL 1111 amended" in google. So there's the source. :) |
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| (1116854) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 24 18:13:42 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 18:03:00 2013. Google is not a source. If you found your source in Google you'd have posted that. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 18:22:56 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 24 18:13:42 2013. legis.suffolkcountyny.gov/public.leginfo.state.ny.us/ assembly.state.ny.us/leg/ ypdcrime.com/vt/ newyorktraffictickets.com/vtl-moving-violations www.osc.state.ny.us/localgov/finreporting/jcef/vtltitlevii.pdf www.courts.state.ny.us/Reporter/3dseries/2010/2010_20305 www.nassaucountyny.gov open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/A2399-2011 law.justia.com www.nylj.com/nylawyer/adgifs/decisions/120811brown.pdf Better? |
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| (1116890) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 24 21:37:23 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 18:22:56 2013. You might as well have not bothered.Some of those are not citations at all. One of then (newyorktrafficlawyer.com) is a 404 error. As for the ones that apparently cite changes to §1111, they do not. §1111-A et seq. are not the same they only have the same number to avoid having to renumber the other sections and keep like topics together. |
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| (1116898) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 22:09:47 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 24 21:37:23 2013. the keyword "amended" was also used to pull up the historical references going back to 1988 if you wish to see the dates of the amendments. I can provide a complete article with quotes and attributions, the standard fee for publishers is $1.00 per word. That's what they pay me for research when I write for publication. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 24 22:29:21 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Oct 24 22:09:47 2013. I googled that and founded nothing. If you provided only that link, it might help. If you want to exchange money, then get me a Lexis or Westlaw subscription and we won't have this problem. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 00:02:16 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 24 22:29:21 2013. Gee ... I had no problem at all finding out that 1111 was amended back in 1988 and several times since by just searching https://www.google.com/search?q=nys%20vtl%201111%20amended after my first stab at it. Add the dates 1988, 2001, 2009 and 2013 and you'll find more.And the subscription probably won't turn much more up unless you know what you're hunting for. I'd advise hiring counsel specializing in vehicle and traffic law. Bottom line here is that such things weren't so clearly defined in the law until folks had to start fighting red light cameras. That's when the details emerged in amending 1111a, b, c and adding d. It's all there. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 00:04:30 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 00:02:16 2013. Is there anything about the 1960's and 1970's? I guess you'll have to find google's pages from back then. Heh. Here's the interface to them:
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| (1116965) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Oct 25 06:23:59 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 00:02:16 2013. And again....your better half claimed present time....then kept changing dates as she kept getting caught in out of the air bs |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 07:38:57 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 00:02:16 2013. Once again: If you really did find anything, POST THE CITATION! A google search is not a source.And once again, §1111-A et seq. are not the same as §1111. They are entirely irrelevant to this discussion. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Oct 25 08:29:03 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Oct 25 06:23:59 2013. Wrong. I was unawate that the state had taken over and unified VTL. Until that happened, "Garden City"s were everywhere. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 09:11:39 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Fri Oct 25 08:29:03 2013. I won't even believe you that the VTL was ever not unified. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Oct 25 09:13:04 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 09:11:39 2013. So then why did it take until 1988 to do it? Selkirk posted links. Or Google it yourself. |
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| (1116996) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 09:16:41 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Fri Oct 25 09:13:04 2013. Selkirk did not post any links. I asked him to but he didn't. If he really found "1988" in Google he'd have posted that instead of having me do the work for him. |
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| (1117005) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Oct 25 09:28:19 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 09:16:41 2013. http://www.subchat.com/otchat/read.asp?Id=1116921 |
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| (1117007) | |
Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 09:30:28 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Fri Oct 25 09:28:19 2013. How many times do I have to say that A GOOGLE SEARCH IS NOT A SOURCE! |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Oct 25 09:35:57 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 09:30:28 2013. That's how the two of them try and get out of when they post BS. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Oct 25 09:46:05 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 09:30:28 2013. LOL...it's more of a source than we see out of the RWers here constantly. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Oct 25 09:56:32 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Fri Oct 25 09:46:05 2013. Okay, let's see:Right-wing source: BAD! Left-wing source: GOOOOOOD! We know that now. Gotcha. Thank you. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 10:24:10 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by bingbong on Fri Oct 25 09:46:05 2013. Yes, so you are not much better than they are. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Oct 25 10:53:14 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 10:24:10 2013. +1 |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 14:56:10 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 07:38:57 2013. No prob ... carry on then. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 14:58:19 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by mcorivervsaf on Fri Oct 25 09:56:32 2013. Correct! :) |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 15:09:43 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 14:56:10 2013. I accept your surrender. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 15:31:15 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 15:09:43 2013. Do I at least get a consolation prize? :) |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 15:38:46 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 15:31:15 2013. You get the OTChat home game. |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 15:48:08 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 25 15:38:46 2013. Aw Qwap. :( |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat Oct 26 05:46:17 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Oct 25 15:31:15 2013. Where's Subway Camper when you need him? |
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Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat Oct 26 05:54:23 2013, in response to Re: 18 Depressing Photos Showing Why Nobody Shops at Sears, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Oct 24 15:39:14 2013. So what if you're driving a truck? Do only the first four tires count, or are you expected to have foreknowledge of yellow lights (and, presumably, Physics-defying shorter braking distances)? |
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