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Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 17 09:59:12 2021

November 2021 Update

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Italianstallion on Wed Nov 17 13:30:36 2021, in response to Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 17 09:59:12 2021.

Much ado about nothing.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 24 20:33:52 2021, in response to Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 17 09:59:12 2021.

I happen to notice, it was not mentioned in the addendum, but the BxM express routes will not be changed.

"Note: The express bus route profiles linked below were originally included as part of the proposed Final Plan released in October 2019. Due to community and customer input, the proposals remain on hold and will not move forward with this phase of the project."

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Nov 25 00:22:43 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 24 20:33:52 2021.

Something kinda funny that I noticed is how the Bx39 is still going to end at the City Line around a mile short of busy Downtown Mount Vernon, presumably because the MTA doesnít want to deal with the bureaucratic hassles that would come with that, but the NYC-subsidized BxM3 to Downtown Yonkers quietly lives on.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 25 01:08:51 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Nov 25 00:22:43 2021.

I missed that as well. For a borough-wide makeover, these changes seem minimal compared to the draft in Queens.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Nov 26 17:59:50 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BusRider on Thu Nov 25 01:08:51 2021.

Apparently the community spoke and told the MTA that they like the way things are for the most part. I read that Bx10 riders in Riverdale fought to make sure that the route continues to divert to Bedford Park Boulevard for the Bronx Science students who use the line. Now Iím not going to pretend like I know whatís best for them, but should the route really continue to divert down there at 3AM on a Sunday morning for some high school students who use the route only a couple hours a day on school days? Isnít that what school trippers are for?

Regardless, itís very evident now that this ďredesignĒ was a waste of everyoneís time, and just a thinly veiled way for the MTA to try to cut service in The Bronx, and they rightfully told the MTA that they werenít having it. I canít wait for the day that the MTA finally has competent management who knows what theyíre doing and genuinely cares about the system, but Iím not holding my breath on that by any means.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by r17-6599 on Sat Nov 27 14:22:32 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by Osmosis Jones on Fri Nov 26 17:59:50 2021.

I attended some of those community meetings.
Basically, what killed the plan was the reluctance of the MTA to just institute local/limited service where necessary, instead of any more select service.
Such was the case on Gun Hill Rd. Now, the Bx38 could have been a local to the Bx28's Limited. Same on Allerton Av. A new Bx25 will be instituted for what reason? If that isn't a local to the Bx26's Limited, what's the use.
To have all these buses use Bedford Pk to get to the Concourse & Jerome Avenue is pointless. The corridor is already overcrowded, especially at rush period. Bedford & Jerome has the addition of the Bee Line buses. On a school day, the station is well packed. Adding more buses there is senseless.
In the case of the Bx10, if the bus doesn't "divert" to Bedford & Jerome, where else can it go? My guess would have that bus go via Bedford to Bainbridge, then on to Norwood/205th st.eliminating Jerome and Gun Hill, two very heavily used arteries. Once at 205t, it would need to loop around somehow in order to go back via Bainbridge & Bedford Pk. and on to Riverdale.
Then there are riders that go to/ from Montefiore who would be left out.
Happily the MTA will continue to keep the Bx28 run via Mosholu. To eliminate that portion, where it actually runs the fastest, would be to kill off potential ridership from all the new apartments that have gone up, and are still doing so.
r17

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 27 15:36:39 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by r17-6599 on Sat Nov 27 14:22:32 2021.

With OMNI, there is no longer a need for SBS.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 27 20:22:59 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 27 15:36:39 2021.

If systemwide POP pans out, yes, SBS will have a very hard time differentiating itself from a traditional limited-stop route, especially one that uses bus lanes.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by r17-6599 on Sat Nov 27 22:17:45 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Nov 27 15:36:39 2021.

Huh? Explain that one, please, BrooklynBus.


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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Nov 28 01:15:48 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by r17-6599 on Sat Nov 27 22:17:45 2021.

One of the main features of SBS is off-board fare payment, and with OMNY, they plan to switch to all-door boarding systemwide.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Nov 28 03:33:27 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by r17-6599 on Sat Nov 27 14:22:32 2021.

For the Bx10, easy, it would continue east on West Mosholu Parkway South, north on Jerome Avenue, then follow the current Bx10 routing to Norwood. Unless Scott Tower is bringing that much ridership to the route, there is absolutely no need for it to go down to Bedford Park Boulevard when school/college isnít in session.

I am actually in favor of creating a 2nd route along Allerton Avenue, but I think that they blundered by sending it to Co-op City with the Bx26. Instead, they should have sent it to the Pelham Bay Park (6) station, which would not only give eastern Allerton Avenue riders a connection to a subway line other than the (2) train, it would have also finally provided some direct bus service to that Aldi shopping center on Gun Hill Road, and probably would have saved the MTA some money since it would be a shorter route. I just canít see demand between Allerton Avenue and Sections 1 & 2 being stronger than the potential demand between Pelham Bay Park and Allerton Avenue, but if the MTA and community really think that there is, then again, I am not going to pretend like I know whatís best for them.

In regards to the Bx28/Bx38, you shouldnít have to take a grand tour of Norwood to get to the (4) train, which is something that not even the MTAís original plan tried to fix (🤡). As I posted here before, I wish that they rerouted the Bx28 down to Fordham via the Bx34ís route, taking over that lineís duties, while the Bx38 continues west on Gun Hill Road, south on Jerome Avenue, west on West Mosholu Parkway South, then follow the current Bx28 route to Fordham.

I do however believe that once OMNY goes into full force, the MTA will add artics and implement some sort of SBS service on Gun Hill Road, especially with Metro North coming to Co-op City soon.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 28 08:08:58 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Nov 28 01:15:48 2021.

Correct. And if they go ahead with their plan for all bus stops to be between a quarter-mile and a mile apart, then all routes will in effect be SBS.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Snilcher on Sun Nov 28 10:01:17 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 28 08:08:58 2021.

It was notable that the reasons given for taking a bus instead of the subway did not include being able to access stops in between subway stops, for those lines that parallel subways. Obviously that would go into the trashcan if the plan's formula is implemented (and there is a overreliance on averages to justify it). Also means there is no rationale to retain routes like the Q56 and the Q60 (which latter evidently had enough ridership to justify adding 24-hour service).


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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by r17-6599 on Sun Nov 28 10:22:00 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Nov 27 20:22:59 2021.

That was basically my point made at the community meeting.
If SBS would be a thing of the past, then local/limited would be more economical and feasible.
OMNY is just one feature that would supposedly save time. It doesn't eliminate traffic issues and whatever other issues slow down buses.
Fare payment is just one.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Nov 28 10:44:58 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by Snilcher on Sun Nov 28 10:01:17 2021.

I see where you're coming from, but worth noting that even the Q56 and Q60 do not perfectly correspond to any particular subway route.

Where the bus routes closely follow subway lines, I'd say the bus should at least have one stop in between subway stations, depending on many circumstances. But sometimes it's overdone. The Manhattan-bound Q60, for example, has stops at both 72nd Drive and 72nd Ave, and then both 67th Road and 67th Ave. If the stops in each of these pairings were consolidated, the bus would still be serving some locations far from subway stations, and also the stations themselves.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Joe V on Sun Nov 28 15:18:15 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Nov 28 08:08:58 2021.

Then there's S79-Fake-SBS.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by dkupf on Thu Dec 2 16:47:15 2021, in response to Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 17 09:59:12 2021.

I think that the plan did not go far enough to address the transit deserts that exist in the borough.

In Port Morris, for example, the Bx17 should operate via Bruckner Blvd instead of St. Ann's Ave. The Bx15 could, then, be extended from The Hub via St. Ann's Ave.

I cannot support the plan until many conditions are met.

One of them is that the MTA should give three-legged transfers for the Bx18 to all Bx11, Bx13, and Bx35 passengers.

The Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum will be presented to the MTA Board on December 15.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Dec 2 16:58:59 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by dkupf on Thu Dec 2 16:47:15 2021.

Iíve always thought that the Bx13 should be extended across 149th Street to St Annís Avenue then takeover the Bx17ís duties to Port Morris. With traffic in Washington Heights, Yankees traffic, and traffic through The Hub though it would be useful, but not reliable to say the least.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by dkupf on Thu Dec 2 17:04:31 2021, in response to Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BusRider on Wed Nov 17 09:59:12 2021.

I have no choice but to favor the Bx15 split, as that the traffic-calming measures on 125th Street outside of the weekday peak have failed to make a significant positive impact.

Unfortunately, to make them more stringent would be impractical due to merchant backlash.

This is why I favor the Bx41-SBS extension to La Guardia Airport.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by dkupf on Thu Dec 2 17:06:19 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Dec 2 16:58:59 2021.

To clarify, I now favor the Bx15 split. The Bx15 could, then, operate via St. Ann's Ave.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by William A. Padron on Thu Dec 2 20:52:52 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by dkupf on Thu Dec 2 17:06:19 2021.

To clarify, I now favor the Bx15 split. The Bx15 could, then, operate via St. Ann's Ave.

There is a problem with that notion. There are speed humps throughout the stretch of Saint Ann's Avenue, and buses tend to avoid those when making their runs, thus forcing them to slow down, plus hitting their bottom sides.

-William A. Padron
["MaBSTOA"]

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 2 21:41:06 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by William A. Padron on Thu Dec 2 20:52:52 2021.

Zero Vision strikes again.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Dec 2 22:15:29 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by William A. Padron on Thu Dec 2 20:52:52 2021.

The Bx17 already goes over them though so how would that be a problem in this context?

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Dec 2 22:27:50 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by dkupf on Thu Dec 2 17:04:31 2021.

They should have at least split it at 125th Street and Lexington Avenue to maintain those connections to the M60 SBS, M35, and even Metro North. With the new arrangement, the reliability of the Bx15 should improve significantly, but the M125 is going to have some problems.

Historically speaking though, routes that function as a crosstown local in Manhattan before serving The Bronx just canít operate reliably. The Bx6, Bx19, Bx35, and Bx36 all have reliability and bunching issues as well that this redesign didnít really address, although making the Bx36 straighter will help a bit.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by William A. Padron on Fri Dec 3 13:12:18 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Dec 2 22:15:29 2021.

NYC DOT has a policy of not installing speed bumps, which are considerable as to cover an entire width of a street, and where buses and trucks run over.

The agency can instead install speed cushions, where buses and trucks can go over easily, as they have provisions (indents) on the pavement for ease. There are about 50 of them located in the city.

If the #Bx17 runs over those speed bumps, they should not be there though. As I said, the buses would be forced to slow down, but the height of those bumps can hit the bottom sides of them, thus causing some damage underneath those vehicles.

-William A. Padron
["MaBSTOA"]


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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Allen45 on Fri Dec 3 15:42:05 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Dec 3 13:12:18 2021.

The QM2/32 has a speed bump on its route on 166th Street.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Dec 4 09:45:02 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by William A. Padron on Fri Dec 3 13:12:18 2021.

Ok I just did a Google Street View of St. Annís Avenue between East 149th Street and East 135th Street and there are no speed bumps, so the point is moot. Anyways speed bumps arenít ideal, but they shouldnít be a huge deterrent to providing bus service to an area by any means, plenty of bus routes in Nassau, Suffolk and other places throughout the country regularly travel over speed bumps without much issue.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Dec 4 12:21:28 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Nov 28 10:22:00 2021.

But with the proposed bus stop removal, all locals in effect become limited.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Dec 4 12:35:54 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by dkupf on Thu Dec 2 17:06:19 2021.

No one on Third Avenue wants to go to St. Anns Avenue and even with split service the Bx15 would over serve the street, which is why I brought up the Bx13 idea.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Dec 4 12:49:18 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Dec 4 12:21:28 2021.

A bit of an exaggeration, but there's something to that.

IMO removing bus stops is yet but another thing that cannot be applied with a straight formula systemwide. There could be places where increased stop spacing with all buses making all stops could save more total passenger minutes than the more current local-limited arrangement. It will depend on many circumstances.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Dec 4 13:40:40 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Dec 4 12:49:18 2021.

Not an exaggeration. Any stop with a few exceptions that is 500 feet from the next stop is proposed for elimination. That means the minimum distance between stops will be 1,000 feet. On the Avenues, they want buses to stop every other avenue or every 1500 feet assuming mid-block stops do not become the norm. Currently Limited stops every 5 city blocks or every 1250 feet. So on the average all locals would in effect become Limiteds or even worse. Bus stops for 101 Avenue in Queens were proposed to be one mile apart without any local or parallel local service.

I agree with the rest of what you said.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Dec 4 13:54:26 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Dec 4 13:40:40 2021.

Thanks, just wow!

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Dec 4 23:35:58 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Dec 4 13:40:40 2021.

The QT24 (current Q24) & QT67 (Q112) are parallel local routes to the QT5 (current Q8). They are about a half mile apart throughout this whole corridor. To make a sticking point of the wide stop spacing on the QT5 is making it seem as if those riders are without alternatives, which isn't the case. (Though for the record, I do think there should be about 2-4 stops added on that stretch...I'm not a big fan of those blue routes in general).

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Nyctransitman on Sun Dec 5 01:56:46 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by dkupf on Thu Dec 2 17:04:31 2021.

To save money the MTA could just extend the BX41SBS to East 125th Street/Lexington Avenue, in Manhattan. At that transfer point M15SBS tickets would be honored for trips on the BX41SBS & M60SBS buses either direction and M60SBS tickets would be honored on M15SBS buses (southbound) and on BX41SBS buses either direction and Bx41SBS tickets would also be honored on M15SBS buses (southbound) and on M60SBS buses either direction as well. I would also have every other M60SBS bus travel to and from Main Street/Roosevelt Avenue Downtown, Flushing as an alternate destination.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Dec 5 10:47:55 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Dec 4 23:35:58 2021.

So say someone now living on 101 Ave who needs to travel a mile in the corridor can walk up to a short block and take the bus. Under the plan, he now has to walk a quarter mile to Atlantic Avenue, ride the mile, then walk a quarter mile back to 101 Avenue.

Why walk a half mile, and pay a fare just to ride a mile.? Why not just walk the entire mile or take an Uber. The purpose of this redesign is to make trips easier, not more difficult.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Dec 5 11:26:32 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Dec 5 10:47:55 2021.

The purpose of this redesign is to make trips easier, not more difficult.

It becomes insanely easy, and probably super-reliable, for anyone on Sutphin Blvd or off the Woodhaven SBS trying to get to Brookdale Hospital or nearby points in Brooklyn.

But I too think the proposed QT5 is silly. At the very least it should start deeper in Downtown Jamaica (Parsons or further east) and should definitely make more stops.

It would be ideal for the "super-express" between Jamaica and Eastern Brooklyn (if there has to be one) to use a more major corridor like Atlantic Ave. Problem of course is that Atlantic doesn't (conveniently) meet the Woodhaven SBS.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by Joe V on Sun Dec 5 17:03:36 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Dec 5 11:26:32 2021.

Maybe with all-door boarding, SBS will fall apart. Then get rid of all those machines. What do they cost to maintain ?

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Dec 5 20:42:35 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by Joe V on Sun Dec 5 17:03:36 2021.

But in this case specifically, the SBS uses the overpass to bypass Atlantic Avenue, saving time, so the machines area non-issue here.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Dec 5 20:54:02 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Dec 5 10:47:55 2021.

In the particular example you gave, perhaps it's not worth it. But how many residents of that corridor are making that precise type of trip? How many are just trying to connect to the subway or another bus route? In the Brooklyn redesign, the Q24 has 47.4% connecting to another bus, 20% connecting to the subway, and 32.6% having a one-seat ride. For the Q56, those corresponding numbers are 49.7%, 23.6%, and 26.7%.

Assuming the Q8 is similar to those two routes, only a third of the riders at most would have any chance of being in the situation you described, and only a fraction of those would have the longer walk on both ends of the route.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Dec 6 07:15:59 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Dec 5 20:42:35 2021.

The big benefit of not relying on the sidewalk machines is that there will be less hesitancy to add stops. You can have more complex types of routings, such as those that stop every 0.1 mile for a stretch to collect riders and then later on every 0.5 miles or more where it turns into an express (or something like that).

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Dec 6 07:17:27 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by Joe V on Sun Dec 5 17:03:36 2021.

My guess is that SBS and Limited will be interchangeable for riders, but for the agency a differentiation will be needed because some routes may get BRT-related funding while others don't. The S79 is already an example of a route that you can just call a Limited and it wouldn't make a single difference to riders.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Dec 6 09:57:15 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Dec 4 23:35:58 2021.

I question how seriously anyone involved with this redesign is or should be taking the bus stop placements as I just noticed that the QT24 goes right through Broadaway Junction without stopping.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue Dec 7 02:31:00 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Dec 6 09:57:15 2021.

For interborough routes, stops were only decided for the Queens portion of those routes (Or at least, that was how it was originally set up. I see now they added the QT35, QT50, and M60 in their respective boroughs). I would imagine the Brooklyn planners would try to keep the spacing consistent with that in Queens (e.g. QT24 & QT56 probably have a similar stop spacing to the present-day Q24 & Q56, while the QT5 would probably only make major stops in Brooklyn).

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 7 08:26:59 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Dec 5 11:26:32 2021.

I have no problem with super expresses if justified by demand, but not at the expense of local buses. Brookdale Hospital is not a hospital that attracts many from far away except perhaps fir employees. Jamaica Hospital would be much more convenient for patients.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 7 20:13:06 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sun Dec 5 20:54:02 2021.

The Q8 had 5,000 daily riders in 2020. If one third of them use only the Q8 to make a trip, That is still 1,600 daily riders who could be potentially be inconvenienced like I mentioned. That is nothing to sneeze at.

Many more could be inconvenienced at one end of the trip.

What proof do you have that the number of minutes saved by buses going faster exceeds the amount of time lost by those inconvenienced and the number of new passengers that would be attracted to the system by saving a few minutes would exceede the number of passengers lost who would no longer use the Q8?

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Dec 8 00:27:11 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 7 20:13:06 2021.

As I've stated before, I believe the Q8 should have a few stops added back. My point is that the mile of spacing between stops isn't as terrible and ridiculous as you are making it out to be (mainly because there are alternate routes in the general area).

For the record, I think that out of the blue routes, the QT1/2 need to be restructured completely, the QT3 should probably be merged with the QT54 into an orange route, the QT4 should make more stops on 69th Street (because I'd move the QT78 over to 65th Place). The QT5 and QT7 should have the spacing of an orange route, and the QT6, QT13, QT50, QT70, and M60 I'd leave as blue routes.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 09:31:24 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Dec 8 00:27:11 2021.

I already explained why the alternate routes are no substitute for eliminating so many stops from a local route and there is nothing wrong with superimposing new long spdustance routes upon the existing system provided there is demand for them. Brookdale Hospital is not a destination that attracts demand from across the borough or from other boroughs. (If it was a VA Hospital, perhaps I would agree.) But this should not be done at the expense of local routes..

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by dkupf on Wed Dec 8 11:13:04 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 09:31:24 2021.

I agree. We have to be concerned with passenger travel time, not vehicle travel time.

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Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Dec 8 18:21:17 2021, in response to Re: Bronx Bus Network Redesign Final Plan Addendum, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Dec 8 09:31:24 2021.

Again, it is unclear how many people would have to do the quarter-mile walk on both ends of their trip as you describe. (And even fewer would have to do that walk if they added back those key secondary stops like 111th Street)

As for the western terminal, I agree that they should've just stuck with Gateway Mall (but via Ashford Street instead of Fountain Avenue, to replace the B84). I think their choice of Brookdale Hospital was a combination of hospital workers, and providing easier general access from that part of ENY/Brownsville to Queens (remember that the B15 doesn't connect with the Woodhaven routes)

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