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| Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. (321363) | |
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Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Dec 26 10:23:59 2016 Read first letter. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by fdtutf on Mon Dec 26 12:44:43 2016, in response to Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Dec 26 10:23:59 2016. Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter.Neither are motorists, which is why some of us are campaigning to reverse the existing transportation system's extreme bias in favor of motorists. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Mon Dec 26 15:06:26 2016, in response to Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Dec 26 10:23:59 2016. Pedestrians are, and should, be accorded a higher priority because they are most vulnerable to the inherent dangers of automobile usage. "The movement of motor vehicles over the highways is attended by constant and serious dangers to the public . . . ." Hendrick v. Maryland, 235 U.S. 610, 622 (1915). "Motor vehicles are dangerous machines; and, even when skillfully and carefully operated, their use is attended by serious dangers to persons and property." Hess v. Pawloski, 274 U.S. 352, 356 (1927). "The use of the public highways by motor vehicles, with its consequent dangers, renders the reasonableness and necessity of regulation apparent." Reitz v. Mealey, 314 U.S. 33, 36 (1941). Yes, at common law the right to travel upon highways has been available to all persons, regardless of the type of vehicle (if any) chosen to facilitate such travel. See, e.g., The Orphaned Right: The Right to Travel by Automobile, 1890-1950, 50 Okla. City Univ. L. Rev. 245 (2005). But that cannot mean free reign for automobilists: the equal rights of pedestrians to travel upon the highways must be protected. And given the inherent dangers of automobile travel, necessary precautions must be taken as part of those protections. And where the rights conflict, the rights of pedestrians must be accorded priority given the relative dangers imposed by the various classes of highway users. Although automobilists do have the same common law right to use the highways, their inherent danger requires them to fully absorb the costs and liability for such choice of vehicle; requiring pedestrians to diminish their rights for the dangerous choice of automobilitis is just wrong. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Dec 26 18:02:36 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Mon Dec 26 15:06:26 2016. However, there are certain limited access highways where the pedestrian does not enjoy the same unlimited right as on normal urban streets and avenues. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 27 04:13:29 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by randyo on Mon Dec 26 18:02:36 2016. At common law, a "highway" is a way over which all members of the public have the right to pass and repass without hindrance. A so-called limited-access highway is a highway which, by statute modifying the common law, has never permitted other than motorized traffic to use the highway. (Arguably a limited-access highway is not truly a highway because is closed to so many members of the public such it is not really open to the public.)In the situation present here in city of New York, no legislature has closed the highways, other than those designated as limited-access highways, and under the common law, pedestrians have just as much right to use the highways as others. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 27 11:06:22 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by fdtutf on Mon Dec 26 12:44:43 2016. There is no extreme bias in favor of motorists. The bias is clearly in favor of cyclists when you decide to eliminate a traffic lane on Queens Boulevard inconveniencing 100,000 motor vehicle daily to help perhaps 2,000 cyclists daily.The bias clearly is in favor of buses over motorists when you choose to eliminate at least two traffic lanes (and four at some intersections). That inconveniences motorists and increases travel times for them significantly on Woodhaven Boulevard while only slightly helping bus riders who only comprise 30 percent of the travelers in vehicles on that roadway. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 27 11:09:26 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Mon Dec 26 15:06:26 2016. So what is your point?I said pedestrians are not the only ones who matter. That does not mean that they do not matter. Are you taking the position that pedestrians ARE the only ones who matter? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Dec 27 11:44:26 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 27 11:06:22 2016. But those numerous motorists are using the road inefficiently, taking up more space per commuter and leaving a greater carbon footprint. Nevertheless, they are "rewarded" with a high percentage of the road, much more space than pedestrians and bicyclists. Motorists are not naturally numerous - they are only numerous because the configuration of the road makes it more practical for many to drive rather than look at alternate options. Take away their space and you will see the number go down. Something like the reverse of "If you build it, they will come."Not that I have any specific proposal - just describing how it works as I see it. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Dec 27 15:40:53 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 27 04:13:29 2016. I was referring to the “limited access highways." |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 27 19:03:26 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 27 11:09:26 2016. The point is that the original letter writer was effectively complaining that (1) pedestrians were not being afforded equal access to highways if they could not use them safely, and (2) automobilists require significant regulation because of the dangers they impose on others. With the guiding principle that all have an equal right to use the highways, you are entirely correct in stating that pedestrians are not the only ones who matter. However, since they matter as much as other users, their ability to use the highways must be protected, and other users that endanger pedestrians by their inherently dangerous activity must be regulated to ensure the safety of those other equal users . . . even if those automobilists are inconvenienced. The pedestrian should not need to take special precautions himself or herself because other users have chosen to use inherently dangerous vehicles; the full burden of ameliorating the danger should rest on those imposing the danger, i.e., the automobilists. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 27 19:03:30 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 27 11:06:22 2016. Constitutionally-protected rights are not divvied out on the basis of popularity. Indeed, such is the very antithesis of the first amendment, designed to protect unpopular speech; the full bill of rights is anti-democratic so as to protect minorities. That 100,000 daily motorists might be inconvenienced is not a basis to deny 2,000 cyclists their right to equal right to use of the highway. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Dec 27 23:27:55 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 27 11:06:22 2016. The bias is clearly in favor of cyclists when you decide to eliminate a traffic lane on Queens Boulevard inconveniencing 100,000 motor vehicle dailyWhere did you get that figure? The bike lane is currently between Roosevelt Ave and the LIE. What's the daily count between these two points? Hint, it's between 40 and 45K. The protected bicycle lane did not take away a travel lane. It was constructed almost entirely on what had been used for parking. This means it did not affect those 40-45K who were traveling on Queens Blvd. It affected only those who were parking in those spots. How many spots? Let's estimate: The distance between Roosevelt and the LIE is 2.7 miles. Let's assume that only 75% is suitable for parking and 25% are taken up by intersections. Let's also assume that a parked car takes up 20 feet. This leaves room for slightly more than 1000 parked cars. That's the bias comparison you should make 2000 cyclists vs. 1000 parking spaces. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 27 23:32:29 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Dec 27 23:27:55 2016. What is the figure from say woodhaven to the entrance to the BQE westbound? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Dec 27 23:45:54 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 27 23:32:29 2016. There was a link on the "Hint" to the NYSDOT volume statistics. Queens Blv is NY 25. Scroll down to the bottom of the page to find out where the counts were made. Alas, they did not take measurements at the BQE intersection. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 27 23:55:03 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Dec 27 23:45:54 2016. I can appreciate the stats but driving along that route for nearly 20 years and having them make these changes is a pain in the foot. |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Dec 28 08:31:33 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Dec 27 23:45:54 2016. There was a link on the "Hint" to the NYSDOT volume statistics. Queens Blv is NY 25. Scroll down to the bottom of the page to find out where the counts were made. Alas, they did not take measurements at the BQE intersection.You should check out the NYSDOT Traffic Data Viewer. Counts are mapped, with links to hourly and directional volumes. 2015 AADT is 38,415 between the BQE and Woodhaven (count taken east of Broadway). |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Dec 28 08:42:25 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Dec 27 11:06:22 2016. There is no extreme bias in favor of motorists. The bias is clearly in favor of cyclists when you decide to eliminate a traffic lane on Queens Boulevard inconveniencing 100,000 motor vehicle daily to help perhaps 2,000 cyclists daily.A ten lane arterial itself is evidence of extreme bias in favor of motorists. And your suspect traffic volumes aside, it's appalling that you would put the convenience of some over the safety of others. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 09:42:50 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Dec 28 08:31:33 2016. Thank you for those links. I wasn't able to get their web-based viewer to work. However, I was able to view the shapefiles on which the viewer display is based.What's interesting is how relatively few vehicles actually use Queens Blvd. The pdf in your second link shows the maximum average hourly flow to be less than 2000 vehicles in each direction and that accounts for only 10% of the time. If drivers kept 3 seconds between themselves and the vehicle in front, then a single traffic lane would be capable of 1200 vehicles per hour regardless of vehicle speed. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 09:47:12 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 27 23:55:03 2016. driving along that route for nearly 20 years and having them make these changes is a pain in the foot.If you have been driving along Queens Blv for 20 years, then you are aware that a parking replaced a service road travel lane. There were no cries of foul, when the that travel lane was replaced. Criticism is reserved only when space is re-allocated to non-vehicular uses. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by JerBear on Wed Dec 28 09:54:35 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Dec 27 11:44:26 2016. Relax, BrooklynBus doesn't believe that building additional lanes induces demand by motorists and creates additional congestion, so your argument is falling on deaf ears. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 28 10:39:51 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 09:47:12 2016. I disagree. There were cries of foul when that parking lane was installed. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Dec 28 11:50:25 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 09:47:12 2016. I don't agree with that. We have lost hundreds of miles of lanes since around 2002. Some of those lanes painted over. It's bull. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 12:11:07 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Dec 28 11:50:25 2016. We have lost hundreds of miles of lanes since around 2002.All on Queens Blvd? 200 lost lane-miles on a street that's less than 15 miles long means 13 lanes have been lost for the entire length. That's quite a feat. Some of those lanes painted over. You will have to go back further, if you are looking for documentary evidence that Queens Blv lanes were painted over. Here's a shot looking south towards Broadway/Grand Ave. Note there are 4 traffic lanes stopped for the traffic light. The date is 1940.  Here's what happened a year later. - Not a bike lane in site.  |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Dec 28 12:19:36 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 09:42:50 2016. There are long waits at the traffic lights, if that has anything to do with it. Lots of the traffic signal cycles are arranged to allow average-speed pedestrians the opportunity to cross all of Queens Blvd in one motion. The percentage of time that cars can cross intersections definitely reduces capacity. I'm sure if it was grade-separated, things would be very different. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Dec 28 12:39:45 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Dec 28 12:11:07 2016. Wow those are great.I meant citywide not just Queens Blvd. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Dec 29 05:00:10 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Dec 28 12:19:36 2016. That's actually the real solution: grade separation. If you turn the express lanes of QB into a limited access highway (at least for some stretches), the area underneath could become a nice weather-protected bikeway. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 29 07:59:42 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Dec 28 12:19:36 2016. There are long waits at the traffic lights, if that has anything to do with it. Lots of the traffic signal cycles are arranged to allow average-speed pedestrians the opportunity to cross all of Queens Blvd in one motion. The percentage of time that cars can cross intersections definitely reduces capacity.The capacity of a traffic light generally depends on the duty cycle, rather than the absolute length of the green cycle. This means the total cycles are longer. I'm sure if it was grade-separated, things would be very different. The problem with grade separation is providing an adequate number of crossings. Grade separation with an inadequate number of such crossings usually results in creating walls that depress adjacent neighborhoods. Eventually, traffic on the cross streets exceeds the capacity of the few crossings that were provided. The grade separated highway destroys the grid system making and its redundancy. The result is more congestion than the roadway eliminated. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Dec 30 03:59:51 2016, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 29 07:59:42 2016. For grade separation I'm thinking of a roadway version of the 7's viaduct on Queens Blvd. Plenty of crossings and space under the elevated roadway for bike lanes and parking. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 10:45:51 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by JerBear on Wed Dec 28 09:54:35 2016. It does in most other areas, but here there are so many disincentives to drive like the lack of parking or parking that is very expensive. Those weigh heavily against the addition of extra lanes as an incentive.Anyway, I have not advocated adding extra lanes to remedy traffic congestion. Rather I gave specifically advocated for bus routing and service improvements to lessen the need for driving and the elimination of traffic bottlenecks to improve traffic flow, not the addition of bottlenecks. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 10:52:34 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 27 19:03:30 2016. My problem really is not the 2,000 cyclists. It is the removal of the traffic lanes. First, lanes were removed to increase parking to slow traffic. Then it was bike lanes to slow traffic further. Now they are planning SBS and exclusive bus lanes to further slow traffic. The city is at war with the automobile, while doing nothing to improve mass transit. SBS gas not reversed the decline of bus usage where it has been implemented because it generally is not an improvement for most bus passengers.It may be more expensive but using the islands for bus lanes would preserve more lanes for traffic and lessen traffic congestion, but the city is trying its best to increase traffic congestion so as to reduce driving without increasing alternatives. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 10:53:57 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 28 10:39:51 2016. I second that. I remember it well. It just wasn't that well covered. No one even asked for more parking. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 11:00:30 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Dec 28 08:42:25 2016. At the BQE entrance it is down to a total of six lanes, three in each direction.As for increasing safety, the exact opposite is occurring. The more you encourage cycling, the higher the number of cycling fatalities and injuries there will be. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 11:10:59 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 27 19:03:26 2016. I disagree with part of what you said.You say pedestrians should have the right to use highways? Are you then advocating for all limited access highways to have sidewalks and remove traffic lanes for that purpose even if those walkways are never used? That would be insane. You are also placing the entire burden of safety on the motorist which is just as insane. It is just common sense that if you want to reduce injuries and fatalities among pedestrians, that you encourage them to wear zone article of light or reflective clothing at night. If you have ever driven, you would understand how difficult it is to see a pedestrian at night or at dusk (especially in the rain) wearing dark clothing especially if they appear where you do not expect to see them such as jumping out mid-block from between parked cars. That is why safety should be everyone's responsibility. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 11:13:21 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Tue Dec 27 04:13:29 2016. A limited access highway certainly is a type of highway and is what most people think of when they use the term highway. |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 1 11:35:15 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 10:52:34 2017. With bike lanes on Queens Blvd., Q60 service is hurting. One lane of traffic on the outer lanes in many areas. |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Jan 1 12:43:06 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 11:00:30 2017. The more you encourage cycling, the higher the number of cycling fatalities and injuries there will be.Of course the more people who engage in any activity, the more likely an incident, all else being equal. The question is: has the ratio of incidents to cycling trips changed for the better due to the added space on the roadway? |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 1 17:19:19 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 10:52:34 2017. While there is much to be critical about the mayor's transportation policy, I do have sympathy as to keeping traffic speeds in check since motor vehicles are inherently dangerous and deadly to pedestrians. But I do think that there's favoritism towards transit vehicles, as if it is O.K. to allow the buses to travel quickly, notwithstanding that buses are at least as dangerous to pedestrians as other motor vehicles, if not more so. Moreover, I think many bus drivers feel as if they are privileged, and that everyone has to get out of their way, pedestrians included (a view that I think many professional bus drivers will likely defend). Everyone has an equal right to use of the highways, but for those people who impose a real danger onto others, sufficient protections must be provided.As to lane removals, that, by itself, is economically wasteful. Highways are provided for movement; they are not provided as storage locations for automobiles. It may be necessary, from a safety perspective, to provide safety islands for pedestrians, so that they can reasonably exercise their equal right to the highways. But after having spent public money building the infrastructure, to then cordon off the benefits of the constructions, is thievery of the taxpayers. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 1 17:28:42 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 11:13:21 2017. Thus my qualification as to the common law meaning of "highway," as opposed to the common conception of what constitutes a "highway." |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 1 17:31:36 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 1 17:19:19 2017. Moreover, I think many bus drivers feel as if they are privileged, and that everyone has to get out of their way, pedestrians includedAs a long time pedestrian, I have seen many reckless bus drivers who act just like you say. But percentage-wise I don't see any difference from regular drivers. Maybe 5-10% in each case. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 1 17:38:05 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 1 11:10:59 2017. Under the common law, pedestrians have a right to use highways. The common law may be changed by statute, as it has been for so-called limited access highways. (But by prohibiting pedestrian use, it does, in my view, pervert the term "highway" by preventing its use by all.) Yet, if you look at all the highways throughout this country, an extremely small portion of the highways are so limited (nonetheless, issues arise when to only access to or from certain lands is by "limited access" highway, and a portion of the public is denied access thereto).Yes, I do place virtually the entire burden of safety on motorists. There are very instances where pedestrians impose a danger. Bicycles are slightly more dangerous. Only motorized vehicles pose a significant and substantial threat to public safety. And for having created that threat, it is the responsibility of automobilists to take on the full costs of that threat. And if they don't want to assume that risk, then they should not drive. (In my view, motorized travel is so inherently dangerous, that the theory of strict liability ought to apply, just as it applies to other inherently dangerous activities.) |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Jan 1 18:58:39 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 1 17:19:19 2017. The Court of Appeals recently found New York City liable for its failure to conduct an adequate study of traffic calming on Gerritsen Avenue in Brooklyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 10:46:10 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jan 1 11:35:15 2017. Yes bike lanes not only hurt cars and trucks, but buses as well. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 10:50:49 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 1 17:19:19 2017. The way to keep traffic speeds in check is through proper enforcement, not to lowering the speed limit to a ridiculous low level. The lower speed limit has not lowered fatalities, just added time to everyone's trips costing many dollars.Buses are not allowed to travel any faster than cars, so I do not know what type of favoritism you are talking about. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 10:54:10 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by merrick1 on Sun Jan 1 18:58:39 2017. I wonder what type of study the city undertook when recently decking to ban several right turns on Ocean Parkway. Residents and elected officials are furious. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 10:56:21 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Jan 1 12:43:06 2017. If the answer is favorable then I am your the city will let you know about it. If they are quiet, you will know the answer. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 11:08:16 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 1 17:38:05 2017. When was the last time you heard someone call a street like Queens Boulevard or Ocean Parkway a "highway"?Regardless of common law, most people only consider limited access highways as highways. The others are simply called roadways, streets, or arterial roadways. People don't even consider Kings Highway which even has the word in its name to be a highway. I also disagree with your conclusion that motorized travel is "inherently dangerous". With cars and roads safer than ever, motorized travel is safer than it has ever been. Remember in the 1960s when every holiday weekend, the media would publicize the number of national highway deaths? You don't hear that anymore because holiday deaths are way down. The fatalities and injuries that do occur are made by an infinitesimal number of drivers who are in many cases breaking the law. To punish every driver for the actions of a few is just wrong. Just like in elementary school when a teacher punished the entire class because one student did something wrong and she didn't know who the culprit was. You obviously do not drive or you would not talk the way you do. Try to see it from both sides. |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 11:09:20 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BusMgr on Sun Jan 1 17:28:42 2017. The common conception is what is important, not obscure common law. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 11:45:34 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 11:08:16 2017. With cars and roads safer than ever, motorized travel is safer than it has ever been. Remember in the 1960s when every holiday weekend, the media would publicize the number of national highway deaths? You don't hear that anymore because holiday deaths are way down.The number of collisions has actually risen. The reduction in deaths is due to the use of restraints such as seat belts, shoulder harnesses, air bags and crumple zones. One type of death that has not fallen, is that to pedestrians. The relation between impact speed and the severity of injury to pedestrians was presented in a paper to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) in the 1970's. This relation has been corroborated in many papers since then. The authors of the original article hoped that the automobile manufacturers would redesign the car to reduce injury severity as they had for the automobile occupants. The automobile industry has refused to take such action. This leaves the only alternative for reducing pedestrian killed and severe injury (KSI) total to be reducing impact speed. The fatalities and injuries that do occur are made by an infinitesimal number of drivers who are in many cases breaking the law. To punish every driver for the actions of a few is just wrong. Let's consider how speed limits are set. The preferred method is to take the 85th percentile of automobile speeds. This means 15% are by definition disobeying "the law". Are these law breakers punished? Does the percentage of speeding tickets approach 15% of drivers? Even 0.1%? One reason for the failure of such enforcement is the fear of backlash because everyone breaks "the law". One popular defense is that speed limits are set artificially low to make money on unsuspecting drivers, etc., etc. The only effective way to reduce speed is to design the roadway so that that 85th percentile speed reduces the pedestrian KSI count. If this speed is to be increased, then design automobiles so that pedestrians have a decent survival chance at the increased speed. You obviously do not drive or you would not talk the way you do. Try to see it from both sides. I've owned and driven a car in NYC for more than 50 years. I've been conscience of their danger to others for the entire time. I retrofitted my first cars with seat belts and shoulder harnesses before their installation was mandatory. I'm also conscience of the danger to myself. |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 11:49:49 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 10:54:10 2017. I wonder what type of study the city undertook when recently decking to ban several right turns on Ocean Parkway.They probably used the recreation paths and found turning cars in their way. Have you tried riding a bicycle on the Ocean Parkway bicycle path? |
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Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter. |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Jan 2 11:55:49 2017, in response to Re: Pedestrians aren't the only ones who matter., posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Jan 2 11:08:16 2017. Regardless of common law, most people only consider limited access highways as highways. The others are simply called roadways, streets, or arterial roadways.NYS Vehicle & Traffic Law § 140. Roadway. That portion of a highway improved, designed, marked, or ordinarily used for vehicular travel, exclusive of the shoulder and slope. In the event a highway includes two or more separate roadways the term "roadway" as used herein shall refer to any such roadway separately but not to all such roadways collectively. |
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