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| Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- (318703) | |
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| (318703) | |
Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Sep 24 08:58:56 2016 New bus terminal |
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| (318704) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Sep 24 09:05:29 2016, in response to Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Sep 24 08:58:56 2016. Chuck: I spent last weekend up in Buffalo. Their bus terminal was open and airy. It is used as a hub for the local city buses as well as the intercity routes. They had a place to get coffee and a sandwich. The place was clean and no one was living in it. Its too bad that NYC can't do the same.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (318705) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 24 10:25:19 2016, in response to Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Sep 24 08:58:56 2016. That very first image would never fly because the outdoor steps would become a problem in a hurry - especially in winter when snow and ice removal would become a constant task. Those steps would also become a haven for "loungers" (homeless or not) who would interfere with bus passengers.None of those drawings showed the actual gate areas. That's the most used area of the terminal and the section that still looks like it hasn't received much attention since the terminal opened in 1950... dark, poor ventilation, too small for current buses - 40 foot transit buses had just begun production and use (45s weren't even a thought then), and height-wise, the deck-and-a-half Scenicruiser was a few years away. Instead of the 35-foot GM PD-4103, line haul carriers are wedging J4500s and H3-45s in there. To accommodate the larger buses and the expected increase in services, the new PABT will basically be the size of a suburban shopping mall. But what is needed even more is another tunnel tube... preferably a bus-exclusive tube to prevent the current backups and congestion on 495 and the Lincoln. There were thoughts of converting the Palisade rail tunnels into a busway that would connect directly to the Turnpike north of exit 17, with access from Tonnelle and Boulevard East, that could then go directly to a dedicated Hudson River tube to serve a new PABT. That would be a HUGE productivity gain. |
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| (318706) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sat Sep 24 11:16:02 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Sep 24 09:05:29 2016. That must be an anomaly, IRT. Nearly every bus station in the country that I have seen, and there were many, fit the same norm as NYC's. Why Buffalo can do it is beyond me. However, beyond that, Buffalo hasn't the volume in bus or pedestrian traffic that NYC has. That needs to be considered for a new facility. |
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| (318707) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 24 11:17:35 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 24 10:25:19 2016. There will be no more XBL lanes or highway tunnels.The new PABT is way oversold and will extend commute times with longer walks to a subway, turn some present-day walks into a subway ride, despite a $1 Billion more for a 10th Ave station, and generally makes a farce of the "one-seat-ride-to-work" argument. |
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| (318709) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 24 11:54:18 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Sep 24 09:05:29 2016. The Buffalo NFTA terminal is a glorified used-car showroom with far less intercity bus service today than it had when it opened in 1976. (Yes, I remember the old Greyhound and Trailways terminals). You can't even begin to compare it to NYC. |
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| (318718) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Sep 24 20:37:09 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Sep 24 09:05:29 2016. WTF are talking about? Some or all of these 5 designs are a million times better than the sh!thole bus terminal in Buffalo you are talking about. NYC can do the same and BETTER. |
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| (318719) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Sep 24 20:38:28 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Sat Sep 24 11:17:35 2016. Wrong |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Sep 24 20:39:32 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 24 10:25:19 2016. Another tunnel tube was not within the scope of the competition. |
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| (318722) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 24 23:12:02 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Sep 24 20:39:32 2016. Understood, but until that chokepoint is addressed, the new PABT could be three full Manhattan blocks and it won't improve service. NJ 495 can't be widened because of the bedrock and the proximity of the local streets and housing alongside it. The only way to get additional lanes will be the existing freight rail tunnels north of 495, or a new one similar to the new rail tunnels going all the way from the Turnpike to Manhattan.It's like building a large new housing development at the end of a tight 1+1 street. Yeah, you've added 3000 homes, but those people are constantly stuck in traffic getting in and out because there's no additional road capacity to cover the new residents. |
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| (318727) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Sep 24 23:53:22 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 24 23:12:02 2016. Not technically correct. The new terminal will likely have a bus staging and storage facility attached to it, which will allow better service in the PM rush. |
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| (318728) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Sep 24 23:58:53 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 24 10:25:19 2016. The steps wouldn't be a problem that couldn't be overcome. Look past the steps and let me know what you think of the rest of that team's submission. |
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| (318730) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 07:39:18 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Sep 24 20:38:28 2016. No stupid, I'm right. It will be farther from the subway stations. |
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| (318731) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 07:41:27 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Sep 24 23:53:22 2016. You are nothing but a ne'er do well mailroom clerk in no position to judge the efficiency of the new terminal.Some of us have experience riding the XBL, live in NJ, and the throughput of the terminal as passengers, or in his case, a driver. |
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| (318733) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Sep 25 08:51:55 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 07:41:27 2016. LOL! How do you know I'm only a mailroom clerk? How do you know I'm not a bus terminal designer? Anyhow, I'm in a MUCH better position to judge than you, that's for sure! |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Sep 25 08:53:18 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 07:39:18 2016. No moron, your post was wrong. |
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| (318735) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 10:10:36 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Sep 25 08:51:55 2016. IAWTLOL!Especially as you were FIRED from the mailroom. |
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| (318736) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 10:18:16 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 07:41:27 2016. You are nothing but a ne'er do well mailroom clerkThat statement reflects extremely poorly on you. |
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| (318737) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Sep 25 10:28:25 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 10:18:16 2016. Yep. Thank you. We should not be looking down upon blue collar workers. |
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| (318738) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Sep 25 10:28:34 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 25 10:10:36 2016. :) |
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| (318739) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Sep 25 10:32:30 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 24 10:25:19 2016. It's would be easy enough to heat the steps to melt snow and ice. From the rendering it doesn't look like the steps would lead to the main entrance. It looks like the main entrance would be a sidewalk level.Steps for lounging are nice. Look at the steps of the Metropolitan Museum  or the Public Library  or Low Library at Columbia.  The New York State Museum in Albany has steps which are used mostly for seating for concerts. The doors at the top of the steps are never open. 
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| (318740) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 10:41:53 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 25 10:18:16 2016. I'll take that chance.Here we have again a know-nothing child-like, grown man wrecking another conversation thread with his stupid remarks to grab attention. |
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| (318741) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 10:43:01 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by merrick1 on Sun Sep 25 10:32:30 2016. Oh they just left steps in Your-up. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 10:51:55 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TerrApin Station on Sun Sep 25 10:28:25 2016. I was looking down upon one blue collar worker who has shown no signs of intelligence or social maturity - YOU. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Sun Sep 25 16:03:05 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by merrick1 on Sun Sep 25 10:32:30 2016. Unnecessary utility bill to heat outdoor steps of that size, and results in just as much maintenance. This is not a museum or library - this is a 24/7 active bus terminal... big difference. |
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| (318754) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 26 01:40:14 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 10:51:55 2016. Nope. You were looking down upon all blue collar workers. You made that very clear with your words. You should be ashamed of yourself. There's nothing wrong with being a blue collar workers and they deserve respect. |
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| (318755) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 26 01:40:45 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by merrick1 on Sun Sep 25 10:32:30 2016. Great post! |
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| (318756) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 26 01:42:06 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 25 10:41:53 2016. Here we have again a know-nothing child-like, grown man wrecking another conversation thread with his stupid remarks to grab attention.Sounds like you are talking about yourself, as the remarks I made above were not stupid at all. They were very informed. |
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| (318796) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 26 17:19:22 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 26 01:42:06 2016. Yes it was stupid: new terminal proposed is one Avenue block west and 2 city block south of the current terminal: 38th to 40th and 9th to 11th Ave.NEWSFLASH: 9th Avenue el has been torn down. You know damned well where the subway stations and platforms are. The only saving grace is a billion dollar build-out of a 10th #7 station. Face it - you don't have a damned clue about anything you write about. You are simply a troll attacking whoever you don't like to get attention, like child that never outgrew the Terrible Two's. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Sep 26 19:12:23 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 26 17:19:22 2016. No it was not stupid. In this subthread I said nothing about any of those topics. Not sure what you are talking about. As such, it is YOUR comments which are stupid.Nope. As I said, my comments were very well informed. And correct. It is disgraceful how you are looking down upon blue collar workers. You should be ashamed. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Sep 26 19:13:02 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 26 01:40:14 2016. Bump |
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| (318802) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 26 19:49:25 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Sep 26 19:12:23 2016. Bullshit. You said "wrong" to an entire thread Sunday morning of the location of the terminal relative to subways. So now you pull the denial routine. There is nothing "informed" about saying "wrong".As usual you have nothing intelligent to contribute. When you attack, I attack, When you don't, I won't. Now buzz off. |
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| (318803) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by merrick1 on Mon Sep 26 20:23:29 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 26 17:19:22 2016. The article says 'One aspect of several designs that Port and West Side officials appreciated was that they didn’t take any private property."How will they build the terminal one block west and two blocks south without taking any private property? There are lots of tunnel ramps on those blocks but there are some private buildings on 9th Avenue. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 27 00:07:24 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 26 19:49:25 2016. Bullshit. You said "wrong" to an entire thread Sunday morning of the location of the terminal relative to subways.That wasn't in this subthread. If you have an issue with that post, then post such in reply to the post in question. This subthread is not addressing that post. LOL! So now you pull the denial routine.I did no such thing. There is nothing "informed" about saying "wrong".Yes there is! I'm informed enough to know that the post I replied to was "WRONG!". As usual you have nothing intelligent to contribute.Yes I do. I have contributed much. Much more than you. When you attack, I attack,You attacked me? I didn't attack anyone. And neither did you. When you don't, I won't.LOL! I'm soooooooooooo scared. Now buzz off.No, I'll post even more frequently just to piss you off. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 27 00:09:11 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by merrick1 on Mon Sep 26 20:23:29 2016. How will they build the terminal one block west and two blocks south without taking any private property?By building only on PANYNJ owned/controlled property. There are lots of tunnel ramps on those blocks but there are some private buildings on 9th Avenue.Well then those private buildings would supposedly remain private in "several designs"! |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 27 00:09:26 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Sep 26 01:40:14 2016. bump |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 27 12:39:28 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 24 10:25:19 2016. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only tunnel that would have made sense for that is now used to HBLR, no? And the only other one is up around Edgewater? I personally think HBLR should have been sent up through that one instead and then terminate at Vince Lombardi. Would the current tunnel it uses have been wide enough to allow for 2 lanes, one of which has a stop for local buses for Bergenline Av? |
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| (318889) | |
POLL :: Port Authority reveals the five submisisons in the PABT design competition |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Sep 27 14:20:43 2016, in response to Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TransitChuckG on Sat Sep 24 08:58:56 2016. Crain's articleVote for the one you like the most in the unscientific poll at the end of the article. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Tue Sep 27 15:15:21 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Sep 27 12:39:28 2016. The bus plan for the Palisade tunnel was not for local service. It would have had a roadway out to the Turnpike, an access ramp at Tonnelle Avenue, and an access ramp from Boulevard East. But its intention would have been solely as a multi-lane busway to remove buses from 495.The tunnels themselves are 4 tracks (2 tracks per tunnel tube), so it would have made a perfect 2+2 busway that could easily be changed to 3+1 during rush hours. Buses could still share the tunnels with the HBLR (1 lane for rail, 1 for bus per tube)... that would help, but not be as effective as the full busway. But without its own underwater tunnel separate from the Lincoln, it wouldn't help at all. Getting between NJ and NY is still the chokepoint that keeps a new PABT on the Manhattan side or new road lanes on the Jersey side from improving service. Building a staging garage for mid-day storage doesn't completely eliminate the traffic problems, because there are still more buses trying to get back and forth to NJ during rush than the Lincoln can handle without delaying all traffic. The Lincoln opened in 1937 - it's even more inadequate in 2016 than the 1950 PABT. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 27 18:41:13 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 27 00:07:24 2016. As I said, Terrible Twos, intellectually retarded, and no contributions.You were thrown off another transit chatboard. Only because there is no moderation are you still here. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 27 18:46:52 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Sep 27 00:07:24 2016. P.S. - you are a pathological LIAR. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Sep 27 18:50:25 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 27 18:46:52 2016. Nope. But you're a liar by calling me that. And you know it. And you've lied many times in the past as well. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Sep 27 18:51:39 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 27 18:41:13 2016. Nope. And since you couldn't respond to any of my specific points, it's clear that you know you are wrong but just don't want to admit it, since you are not an honest person. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 27 20:20:18 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Sep 27 18:51:39 2016. You have no points to make.You said "wrong" about further from subways because you were too stupid and lazy to know where the PABT would be. You contribute nothing because you know nothing. Everything else is off-topic, as always with you. Such is the case of a perpetual 2 year old with no life, or you would not be here constantly. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Sep 27 23:28:34 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 27 20:20:18 2016. Nope. I know where all 5 proposals place the terminal. In fact I know it much much much much better than you. I said "wrong" for other reasons.Wrong, everything else is not off-topic Wrong, I'm not here as much as you.mistakenly think. |
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| (319023) | |
Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Sep 28 13:10:08 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by kcram3500 on Tue Sep 27 15:15:21 2016. I understand it wasn't intended for local service, but with the advent of the Bergenline Av HBLR stop, taking that away might not be an option, which is why I asked about space for a stop. I wasn't aware that it was 2 tubes. I still think HBLR via Edgewater tunnel makes more sense, making space for 2 x 2 bus only lanes. I don't think a single lane is efficient enough, but that's given the current situation of deadheading buses into the city for PM rush. Once a place is built to store them in Manhattan, and if commuter rail service could be boosted into the city, a single lane MIGHT actually be sufficient. And yes, a new tunnel under the river directly into PABT and local Manhattan streets would definitely be needed. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Sep 28 15:07:20 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Sep 28 13:10:08 2016. The caveat will be, any new access will have to be HOV and/or bus only to get approval from New York. They want/need to keep truck traffic off-peak and single-car users at a disadvantage.If any of these presidential candidates are serious about infrastructure renewal and jobs, replacing all 4 road tunnels into Manhattan with state-of-the-art structures would be high on the list. |
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Re: POLL :: Port Authority reveals the five submisisons in the PABT design competition |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Sep 28 15:11:23 2016, in response to POLL :: Port Authority reveals the five submisisons in the PABT design competition, posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Sep 27 14:20:43 2016. bumpVote for the one you like the most in the unscientific poll at the end of the article. Which one is your favorite? |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by JohnnyMints on Thu Sep 29 12:37:13 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by kcram3500 on Tue Sep 27 15:15:21 2016. I agree 100% with your thinking. Unfortunately, the Trans Hudson Commuting Study on the PA website mentions nothing about any kind of new tube or tunnel replacement. Instead, the focus is on mitigation; sending buses to the GWB, Secaucus, NJ ferries and so-forth, as well as "bus platooning" at the XBL. Not that they're not worth looking into, but my opinion is that the whole 495/Lincoln corridor needs to be overhauled and replaced. It won't be impossible, but require a major investment and commitment. But if a consensus could be reached on a Hudson River rail tunnel (also very badly needed), then this could [THEORETICALLY] happen too. Any kind of "Lincoln Tunnel 2.0" would need dedicated bus-only provisions, or perhaps bus-only during peak and buses/commercial vehicles during off-peak. Keep in mind that gridlock isn't limited to rush hours only. Sunday evenings inbound, for instance, can often be just as bad, if not worse, than weekday mornings. |
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Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs--- |
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Posted by hound on Thu Sep 29 13:47:50 2016, in response to Re: Port Authority reveals 5 designs---, posted by merrick1 on Mon Sep 26 20:23:29 2016. Why does everyone keep responding to this imbecile? |
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