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| Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven (309839) | |
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| (311362) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:05:59 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:08:48 2016. If you can't understand the fact that 24 hour data is absolutely useless for capacity concerns, there is no use wasting any more time on you. |
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| (311363) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:06:40 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:13:48 2016. It certainly doesn't |
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| (311364) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:07:41 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:15:47 2016. "The purpose of an exclusive bus lane is to increase the average bus speed. Period."No. "I am not going to keep repeating my points since everything just goes in one ear and out the other." Good, because it seems pointless as I and others keep on pointing out how they are generally wrong and almost always irrelevant. |
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| (311365) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:10:19 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:19:53 2016. "You know nothing about collecting and analyzing data."Actually, I know a lot about collecting and analyzing data. "When making a decision for tomorrow about anything, 100 year old statistics are meaningless." Depends on what you are looking at. If you are trying to see if changes made 100 years ago were effective, 100 year old data is EXACTLY what you need. "Circumstances change over time." Certainly! That is my point! "Nothing remains stagnant." Certainly! That is my point "You fail to understand that. " I DO understand that. YOU are the one who fails to. |
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| (311366) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:14:44 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:21:48 2016. Those two exceptions are not insignificant distances. And over a significant portion, especially towards the southern end of that range they are not replacing general traffic lanes. And there aren't bus lanes south of Howard Beach as you point out in your statement.And you call ME misleading? Jeez. What a hypocrite. |
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| (311367) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:15:37 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:27:26 2016. I am not insisting that. You are also not backing up any of your claims with any data. |
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| (311368) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:17:27 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:32:10 2016. LOL. More conspiracy theories. How much LOS data do they release today? Yeah, certainly a coverup. |
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| (311369) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:20:11 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:35:05 2016. The wikipedia page for LOS disagrees.That said, the highway definition used on the wikipedia page is obviously applicable to Woodhaven, so your statement is even more absurd. But what is perhaps the most absurd part of all is that someone who claims to be an expert on transportation issues had to look up LOS on wikipedia. |
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| (311370) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:23:37 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:43:16 2016. BUT LEFT TURN LANES are not applicable. THEY PROVIDE NO THROUGH CAPACITY WHATSOEVER. THEY REDUCE THROUGH CAPACITY AS THEY CONFLICT WITH THE OTHER DIRECTION'S TRAFFIC.AND THE ROAD REDUCES TO THREE LANES IMMEDIATELY SOUTH OF METROPOLITAN. It is going from FOUR to THREE, except the FOUR we have today are constrained to the capacity of THREE immediately to the south, so NO REDUCTION. The CONSTRAINT caused by the LEFT turns is being eliminated so there is a CAPACITY INCREASE. |
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| (311371) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:24:42 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:45:09 2016. All depends on what you are doing. If you are doing the exact same actions as were done 100 years ago in the exact same situation, then yes, it is certainly data one would look at. |
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| (311373) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 19:00:36 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:13:17 2016. "First of all the West Side Highway was not eliminated. The elevated highway was replaced with an at grade boulevard so no capacity was lost, but trip tines increased with addition of traffic lights."You don't seem to understand what capacity is, if you think that no capacity was lost here. Lights reduce capacity, and furthermore, it was not replaced with the street level thoroughfare, as said thoroughfare existed beforehand. "And no one is talking about building more roads. If by the reverse you mean reducing capacity, in order to know if traffic is reduced you also have to survey all alternate routes to see the traffic effects there. DOT's analysis will ignore the alternates of the BQE, the Van Wyck and the Jackie Robinson. They may not even look at the parallel residential streets." You claim that such routes aren't being surveyed. Such claims are absurd. Furthermore, WHY THE HELL WOULD the BQE or the Robinson be surveyed as alternates for Woodhaven. Do you have any idea where these roads even go??? |
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| (311374) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 19:00:46 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:13:17 2016. "First of all the West Side Highway was not eliminated. The elevated highway was replaced with an at grade boulevard so no capacity was lost, but trip tines increased with addition of traffic lights."You don't seem to understand what capacity is, if you think that no capacity was lost here. Lights reduce capacity, and furthermore, it was not replaced with the street level thoroughfare, as said thoroughfare existed beforehand. "And no one is talking about building more roads. If by the reverse you mean reducing capacity, in order to know if traffic is reduced you also have to survey all alternate routes to see the traffic effects there. DOT's analysis will ignore the alternates of the BQE, the Van Wyck and the Jackie Robinson. They may not even look at the parallel residential streets." You claim that such routes aren't being surveyed. Such claims are absurd. Furthermore, WHY THE HELL WOULD the BQE or the Robinson be surveyed as alternates for Woodhaven. Do you have any idea where these roads even go??? |
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| (311375) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 11 19:33:38 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 19:00:36 2016. We also have several examples of urban freeways being torn down. Oakland and along the San Fran waterfront come to mind.Pandemonium did not break out. |
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| (311387) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 12 12:17:41 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 19:00:46 2016. I can see the Robinson, but it is tenuous. |
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| (311388) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Mar 12 12:19:22 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 11 19:33:38 2016. Where did Oakland tear down an urban freeway? The Nimitz was routed to a new alignment. No lanes were lost. No appreciable distance was added. |
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| (311395) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by fdtutf on Sat Mar 12 23:54:05 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Mar 11 15:53:31 2016. It's a pretty straightforward chain that anybody familiar with the subject matter should know: Any time bus lanes or bike lanes are considered in many places, traffic engineers warn of the supposed deleterious effects on LOS from the removal of the lanes from automobile use. What's hard to understand? |
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| (311396) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 08:54:26 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by fdtutf on Sat Mar 12 23:54:05 2016. It's a pretty straightforward chain that anybody familiar with the subject matter should know: Any time bus lanes or bike lanes are considered in many places, traffic engineers warn of the supposed deleterious effects on LOS from the removal of the lanes from automobile use. What's hard to understand?No, Allan Rosens posing as traffic engineers warn of the supposed deleterious effects on LOS. Real traffic engineers understand the benefits and are usually behind the consideration of bus lanes or bike lanes. |
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| (311397) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 08:58:32 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by JerBear on Fri Mar 11 11:15:34 2016. Although I have heard criticisms of the Complete Streets program because it leads to wholesale engineered rebuilds and misses the opportunity for small, cheap, temporary strategic solutions that might solve the problem without needing huge amounts of money and time. Like the pilot project in Times Square. Just start doing minor interventions all over the place, trying out possible solutions and measuring the results.Complete Streets isn't just wholesale redesign of a roadway. It can be as little as fixing a wheelchair ramp or relocating a bus stop so it's near a crosswalk. Good Complete Streets policies also include appropriate exceptions to the policy. |
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| (311398) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 09:01:46 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:20:11 2016. The wikipedia page for LOS disagrees.But what does the wickipedia page say? |
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| (311402) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:51:27 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 08:54:26 2016. Good post. |
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| (311403) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:52:52 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by fdtutf on Sat Mar 12 23:54:05 2016. No, not traffic engineers. The municipalities set the thresholds for significant impacts. That said, you still haven't explained how LOS is bad but Trip Generation is good. |
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| (311404) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:54:16 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:08:48 2016. Guess what - you're wrong. |
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| (311405) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:56:31 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:07:41 2016. Great post. |
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| (311406) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:56:46 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:15:47 2016. No, you're wrong. You don't know anything. |
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| (311407) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:57:33 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:13:48 2016. You're wrong. And you'll finally know it in a few years, I guess. |
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| (311408) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:58:14 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:19:53 2016. That's not what we are talking about. You're clueless. |
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| (311409) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:58:46 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:14:44 2016. Haha! |
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| (311410) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:59:30 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:15:37 2016. Yep |
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| (311411) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 10:00:07 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:05:59 2016. If you can't understand the fact that 24 hour data is absolutely useless for capacity concerns, there is no use wasting any more time on you.24 hour data are useful, if only to show that the peak analyzed is legitimately the peak. Fortunately, 24 hour data for Woodhaven are readily available and show that during the off-peak times that buses don't need the bus lane, traffic volumes also don't need an extra travel lane. |
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| (311412) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 10:00:23 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 09:01:46 2016. Haha |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 10:00:34 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:20:11 2016. Owned. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 10:01:07 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:35:05 2016. Right, you're clueless. Why don't you stop? |
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| (311415) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 10:02:59 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:23:37 2016. Nice post. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 10:06:17 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Mar 11 17:43:16 2016. The left turn lanes reduce capacity on the through lanes, as they take away green time from the through movement. If that time is given back to the through movement in the future conditions, then generally speaking there should not be a great reduction in capacity that you are predicting. You obviously are not a transportation planner or a traffic engineer as several of us here are so why don't you STFU and listen to people who are smarter and more knowledgable than you on these matters?????????żż |
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| (311417) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 10:06:42 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:24:42 2016. Yep |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Mar 13 10:08:01 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 10:00:07 2016. Yes, that was poorly worded. I have previously qualified that reliance on data representing the peak hour could be problematic if the peak hour was misidentified. I asked Mr. Rosen if he has any reason to believe that the peak hour was misidentified.That all said, 24 hour totals certainly are useless for determining capacity. |
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| (311420) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 10:10:24 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 10:00:07 2016. Good post. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 10:10:33 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Sun Mar 13 10:08:01 2016. Yep. |
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| (311427) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by fdtutf on Sun Mar 13 12:48:49 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 08:54:26 2016. That's more true in some places than in others. There are still plenty of places in the U.S. where traffic engineers of the Allan Rosen persuasion hold sway. |
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| (311431) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 16:49:08 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by fdtutf on Sun Mar 13 12:48:49 2016. Such as? |
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| (311438) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by fdtutf on Sun Mar 13 21:37:37 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 09:52:52 2016. That said, you still haven't explained how LOS is bad but Trip Generation is good.And since I didn't assert that, I won't be explaining it. |
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| (311439) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 22:15:09 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by fdtutf on Sun Mar 13 21:37:37 2016. The article asserted it and you posted in support of the article. So... |
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| (311440) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 13 22:16:09 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by fdtutf on Sun Mar 13 21:37:37 2016. As I said, I'm very familiar with all the concepts involved so I have every right to call bullshit on that article. |
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| (311452) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 14:54:19 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sun Mar 13 10:00:07 2016. I disagree that during the off-peak periods traffic volumes do not need the extra lane. Where is DOT's data to support your allegation? |
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| (311454) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 14:58:51 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Sun Mar 13 10:08:01 2016. I have no reason to believe the peak hour is misidentified. My problem is that no proposal calls for changes Bly during the peak hour. Bus lanes are currently in effect for the hours of 7 to 10. The peak hour was shown to give a distorted view of the percentage of drivers and passengers to bus passengers. That can only be shown using 24 hour data and is very relevent to the proposal because 25% of the capacity is removed to handle about 20 perecent of the traffic. That means traffic will be slowed down for cars and not speeded up as DOT contends. |
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| (311455) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:00:10 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:07:41 2016. The purpose of a bus lane should not be to slow down cars. |
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| (311456) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:01:50 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:10:19 2016. You are totally contradicting yourself. You state circumstances change over time and at the same time say that future decisions should be based on 100 year old data because it was valid at the time. |
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| (311457) | |
Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 15:08:18 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by R30A on Fri Mar 11 18:14:44 2016. I never said those two exceptions are insignificant distances so don't put words in my mouth.The question was are general lanes being removed for bus lanes and the answer should be a resounding YES. Your statement about existing bus lanes being moved is currently up in the air. That was the original proposal, but now is in doubt. A decision will be made after the SBS lanes are extended south and the data is analyzed. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:08:32 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 14:54:19 2016. If Peak periods don't require the lane, obviously off peak periods won't either. |
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Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 14 15:09:43 2016, in response to Re: Summary and Video of November 2015 SBS meeting in Woodhaven, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Mar 14 14:58:51 2016. If the traffic can be handled at the peak hour, it can be handled at the off peak hours. Unless you misidentify the peak hour.24 hour total counts are ENTIRELY USELESS. |
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