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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Sep 4 11:37:24 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Mon Sep 4 10:50:25 2017.

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The parentheses had to do with such status you mentioned; the question mark has to do with what it became after 1974, if it still existed in this state; I presume as such it has been eliminated.

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(325165)

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by northshore on Mon Sep 4 12:46:23 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Sep 4 11:37:24 2017.

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I wonder if it is listed on any destination sign code?

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Sep 4 13:11:03 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Mon Sep 4 12:46:23 2017.

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I know in the first decade of MaBSTOA, '10 Broadway' was on side roll sings of both 'batwing' and non-batwing buses, next to '10 8th Ave.-Central Pk W'.

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(325168)

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Mon Sep 4 13:55:57 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by AMoreira81 on Fri Jul 24 01:12:11 2009.

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Nah, the S55/56 end around 7pm, which means you can actually work a decent-length shift if you're along the route (say, you work retail at the SI Mall), and you can even use it as an alternative to the express bus if you get out of work in Manhattan early enough (say you catch a 6:00pm ferry and a 6:30pm train)

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(325170)

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by Chicago44 on Mon Sep 4 14:26:12 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by BigBusDriver on Wed Jul 22 19:54:45 2009.

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Don't forget, you have the Q19 that ends service early before 8:00pm.

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(325172)

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by northshore on Mon Sep 4 15:28:10 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Sep 4 13:11:03 2017.

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Yes, I saw them on the 5000's and 8000's

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(325186)

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by WayneJay on Tue Sep 5 15:43:57 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Sep 4 10:12:42 2017.

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Interesting. The earliest I can recall is about '70. At one point in the early/mid 70s, I recall the old Bx30 (now part of Bx19) operating from 146th St depot.

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(325212)

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by northshore on Thu Sep 7 11:26:26 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Sep 4 10:12:42 2017.

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FYI- Following is the garage route assignments of NYC Omnibus for their 4 depots in 1950:

12 St-12,13,14

54 St-5,6,8,15,16,21

100 St-1.2.11.17.18.19.20

146 St-3.4.7.10.TB

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(325218)

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Thu Sep 7 22:05:50 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Thu Sep 7 11:26:26 2017.

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I presume this held for the point the whole schleboodle became Fifth Avenue Coach Lines, Inc. in 1956. And furthermore . . . where's Rt. 22 (Pitt and Ridge Streets)? Shouldn't that have theoretically emanated out of 12th Street? Ditto for the 9, wouldn't that have also been based at 54th Street depot?

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by northshore on Thu Sep 7 22:43:52 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Thu Sep 7 22:05:50 2017.

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FACCO and NYCO Divisions of Fifth Avenue Coach Lines continued to operate as separate entities (including buses and garages) until the end of private ownership. After 1943, Rt 22 eventually became a once a day franchise tripper and operated as an extension of the 21 for that single run. The 9 also became a once a day franchise tripper after 1943, as it duplicated other routes.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Fri Sep 8 11:10:39 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Thu Sep 7 22:43:52 2017.

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I know that Surface Transit's M-105 Tenth Avenue route became once-a-day in 1957 . . . would you know what year FACCo's Rt. 1 - Fifth Avenue became a once-a-day franchise tripper? I know NYCO's 9, together with 8, ended in 1954 with the one-way conversions of Eighth and part of Seventh Avenue, and 1, 22 and 105 all disappeared from the list of bus routes in 1962 with the TWU strike that led to MaBSTOA's takeover . . .

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Sep 8 11:38:17 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Fri Sep 8 11:10:39 2017.

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When was the M103 extended to 72nd Street?

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by northshore on Fri Sep 8 13:11:30 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Fri Sep 8 11:10:39 2017.

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I was told by Al Meier, former editor of Motor Coach Age, that FACCO Rt 1 ran as a once-a-day franchise tripper from 135 St to 42 St using a YC TD-4506 until the end of FACL in 1962. After that MABSTOA legally could not operate it. There were many cutbacks, suspensions and even eliminations of routes when the 1943 Federal ODT regulations took effect. Many did not return, or if they did it was limited service. My hunch is Rt. 1 became a once-a-day tripper in 1943.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by northshore on Fri Sep 8 13:53:37 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Fri Sep 8 13:11:30 2017.

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The M-105 (originally a TARS streetcar) ran from 42 St Ferry to 125 St & Bway via 10 Av. It was rerouted via 11 Av in 1948, cut back from 125 St to 73 ST in 1954, became a daily tripper in 1957 and wad discontinued in 1962.The M-103 was probably extended from 59 St to 73 St over the former M-105 route in 1962 to serve as a partial replacement.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by X-Astorian on Fri Sep 8 15:21:01 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Fri Sep 8 13:53:37 2017.

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As reported in Motor Coach Age - "MaBSTOA - the First Ten Years" - the M-103 was extended to 73rd Street and Broadway 54 years ago today - 9/8/63.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Fri Sep 8 15:37:33 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Fri Sep 8 13:11:30 2017.

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Unless I'm mistaken, that MaBSTOA could not legally operate FACCo 1 may explain why, in 1966, when ex-NYCO 1's SB route was shifted to Fifth after it and Madison were converted one-way, it only went down Fifth as far as 40th before running east there towards Park. I wonder what those who came and went at the company (especially after FACL's c.1973 transformation into South Bay Corporation) would have thought about the 2010 developments, service cutbacks etc., that led to the de facto re-creation of the old FACCo 1 route, if not FACCo 1 itself. (That FACCo 1 ended with the 1962 strike, and the circumstances behind why it was never resumed, proves once again that Wikipedia is full of it: a) by their claim that it and ex-NYCO 1 were "combined" with the 1966 Fifth and Madison one-way conversions, and b) by their assertion that FACCo 1 was discontinued on the day those conversions took effect, rather than four years before.)

From seeing the list of FACCo routes from that MCA article (interesting they, unlike NYCO or East Side Omnibus, never used Rt. 13 - was anybody in the company superstitious?), I noticed many changes (doubtless tied to said Federal ODT regulations) were effected on Dec. 6, 1942, and it's possible, if that was the period Rt. 1 became once-a-day, that day would have been it. (Then, there was June 1943 which was the beginning of suspension of Rt. 16 - Elmhurst Crosstown service until it resumed Nov. 1, 1945.)

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Fri Sep 8 15:39:57 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by X-Astorian on Fri Sep 8 15:21:01 2017.

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Aha. Six days after all bus traffic was banned from Washington Square Park.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Tue Sep 12 05:12:34 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Fri Sep 8 13:11:30 2017.

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The truncation of FACCo's 1 to 42nd Street must've lasted for the duration of the war, as by the 1947 FACCo map and another published by Fifth Avenue Coach Lines after 1957 showing FACO and NYCO Division routes (I say after 1957 because it shows NYCO Division's 5, 6 and 7, north of 34th Street - Herald Square, traversing Avenue of the Americas [Sixth Avenue], Seventh Avenue and Broadway), its southern terminus was listed again as Washington Square, alongside the 2, 3, 5 and 19. That and a 1958-59 photo, taken around Madison Square, of two models atop a TDH-5106 (facing north, while the pic was facing south) with '1 Fifth Avenue - Wash. Square' markings - which, due to a lone GM TD-4506 making the rounds on that route in its last years, was an absolute impossibility in actuality.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Wed Nov 1 20:14:50 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by WayneJay on Tue Sep 5 15:43:57 2017.

Circa 1974, if roll signs up on eBay are of any indication.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by transitbuff on Fri Nov 3 15:30:50 2017, in response to Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by 33rd Street on Wed Jul 22 01:12:53 2009.

M 13 8th St Crosstown...assigned to 12th St.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Fri Nov 3 21:52:08 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by transitbuff on Fri Nov 3 15:30:50 2017.

Around what year would its assignation have been transferred to 54th?

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by pelham Exp on Sat Nov 4 10:12:09 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by WayneJay on Tue Sep 5 15:43:57 2017.

Hey WayneJay do you remember the BX19 that ran along Eastchester Road?

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by WayneJay on Sat Nov 4 22:46:45 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by pelham Exp on Sat Nov 4 10:12:09 2017.

Yes, I do. I never actually saw BX19 in service but I do recall seeing the sign reading on some COL buses heading to/from the depot. In those days it was the Bx15B, and was renumbered to Bx19 when lettered prefixes were eliminated from Bronx routes.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Sun Nov 5 06:10:17 2017, in response to Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by 33rd Street on Wed Jul 22 01:12:53 2009.

I also have to wonder if, at the onset of the 101A in March 1969, it was initially (and very temporarily) assigned out of 146th Street before being transferred to 100th Street, and if so, at what point the route would have been reassigned to 100th. I ask because I saw a picture online of a batwinged bus working that route, being towed around City Hall by a MaBSTOA truck - and while it said '101A to City Hall' on the front side, the batwing side sign indicated '2 - 5th & Madison via Lenox', giving away one of the biggest rerouting/renumbering jobs among the Manhattan bus routes.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by pelham Exp on Sun Nov 5 10:09:53 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by WayneJay on Sat Nov 4 22:46:45 2017.

I never saw in service either..but remember seeing guide a ride boxes along Eastchester Rd.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sun Nov 5 20:45:59 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by WayneJay on Sat Nov 4 22:46:45 2017.

I had relatives that actually lived on Schieffelin Avenue. In fact the bus stop was right on the corner and neither me nor them ever saw the Bx19.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Dec 11 18:55:21 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Sep 4 10:12:42 2017.

A few other pointers of the 1967-68 period:
- (M)21 was also stationed at 54th Street (how I'd missed that on the list the first time, I'll never know)
- (Bx)6 Throggs Neck was also joined at Coliseum by 6A, 6B and 6C
- (Bx)12 was also joined there by 12A and 12B
- (Bx)14 was also joined by 14A
- (Bx)15 was also joined by 15A and 15B
- At Kingsbridge, (Bx)10 was also joined by 10B (apparently, over the long haul 10A was ixnayed)

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Dec 11 18:56:41 2017, in response to Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by 33rd Street on Wed Jul 22 01:12:53 2009.

From what I read in the excerpts from that Motor Coach Age article, that itinerary of routes to depots was effective February 1970.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Dec 11 19:09:32 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Thu Sep 7 11:26:26 2017.

I was to ask if, with in the last two years of private operation of those bus routes, there was a change in route assignment by depot for the 1 and 2 from 100th Street to 146th Street. Several factors are at play in this question. One has to do with this picture, taken in 1960 on a 2 route that had one of the first wave of 'New Look' TDH-5301's ordered by Fifth Avenue Coach Lines:

I don't know about the last two years of FACL operation of the bus route network, but six months into MaBSTOA's founding in September 1962, there were no 'New Looks' at 100th Street (where the 1 and 2 had been stationed) but quite a few at 146th Street. And with the discontinuance of the 3 and 4 - Lexington Avenue lines of FACL's NYCO [Omnibus] Division in 1960 upon the one-way conversions of Lexington and Third Avenues, the 1 and 2's northern terminus was extended to 146th and Lenox near that said depot.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Dec 11 19:24:22 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by Waynejay on Wed Jul 22 09:31:18 2009.

For instance, M8, M11, M14, M16, M21, M26 were at Hudson depot.

Was M12 Spring/Delancey ever at Hudson Depot up to that route's 1979 demise, I wonder? I could've sworn it was . . . I figured M11 (probably after 1973 or thereabouts), M13/M8, M14, M15/M26/M23, M16 and M21 were there, it was logical they'd go to Hudson once it opened for business. Also, could anyone say with certainty to which depot(s) the TB route was/were assigned after being broken up into M34, M35 and Bx21 in 1974.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Dec 11 20:07:02 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Dec 11 19:09:32 2017.

That's a beauty. And the Vdub parked.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by WayneJay on Sun Dec 24 15:31:16 2017, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Dec 11 19:24:22 2017.

I can't say for sure about the M12, but I'd agree with you. I think it's safe to say that HUD had all of the crosstown routes south of 42nd Street except the M22 which of course was a TA route.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Wed Jan 3 17:20:25 2018, in response to Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by 33rd Street on Wed Jul 22 01:12:53 2009.

Now, what I'm about to put out isn't original either, but it may have something to do with which was assigned where in MaBSTOA's early years. In about late 1963, front rollsigns for vintage Old Look buses were drawn up and the order of routes (Manhattan, of course) may well have been by depot. The descriptions are as on that rollsign:

3 - FIFTH AVENUE (?!)
15 - JACKSON H'GTS - QUEENSBORO B'DG
15 - FIFTH AVE - QUEENSBORO BDG
16 - ELMHURST X'TOWN - 82-BAXTER-B'WAY
15 - LIMITED STOPS
6 - BROADWAY - AVE OF AMERICAS
6 - 72nd ST CROSSTOWN
11 - AMSTERDAM & 9th AVES
12 - SPRING & DELANCEY STS
13 - 8th ST. CROSSTOWN
14 - 14th ST. XTOWN VIA AVE. A
14 - 14th ST. XTOWN VIA AVE. D
17 - 79th ST. CROSSTOWN
18 - 86th ST. CROSSTOWN
19 - 96th ST. CROSSTOWN
20 - 116th ST XTOWN
TRI-BORO BRIDGE
101 - 3rd-LEX - AMSTERDAM
107 - 106th ST. XTOWN VIA-110 ST.-5th AVE
NO PASSENGERS
15 - 23rd ST CROSSTOWN
16 - 34th ST CROSSTOWN
20 - 57th ST CROSSTOWN
21 - HOUSTON ST & AVE. C
103 - 59th ST CROSSTOWN
106 - 42nd ST CROSSTOWN
7 - BROADWAY-COL - LENOX AVES
1 - PARK & MADISON VIA-135 ST.
2 - PARK & MADISON VIA-116 ST.
10 - 8th AVE. - CENT. PK. WEST
30 - 149th ST CROSSTOWN

This had to have been made prior to the Dec. 22, 1963 closure of the ex-FACCo Jackson Heights depot (at 76th Street and Northern Boulevard) out of which 15-Jackson Heights and 16-Elmhurst were based before being transferred to 54th Street depot in Manhattan, but how does one explain 3-Fifth Avenue on this - was it split between Jackson Heights and 132nd Street (whose routes weren't even mentioned - nor was Amsterdam Depot's)? Those are on the top.

Next are the two 6's (Broadway-Ave. of Americas - this was obviously after the Nov. 10, 1963 one-way conversion of Sixth Avenue below Herald Square - and 72nd Street Crosstown - where'd've they been at that point?). I have to surmise 12th Street depot at that point in MaBSTOA's history was home to the 11, 12, 13, 14(A) and 14(D) routes, given how close in proximity they are shown on that rollsign (I presume it was 1968 or so when 11 was reassigned to 132nd Street?).

Then is what looks like the 100th Street depot's group of routes: 17, 18, 19, 20, TB, 101, 107. Followed by what would have been 54th Street's: 15, 16, 20, 21, 103 and 106; and finally, what appears to be the lineup at 146th Street: 1, 2, 7, 10 and Bx-30 (that last route appears, over the years, to have been ping-ponged between there and Amsterdam).

The routes at 132nd Street are obviously not included (2 - 5th & 7th Avenues; 3 - Fifth and Convent or St. Nicholas Aves.; 4 - 5th Ave.-110th St.-Riverside Drive or Fort Washington; 5 - 5th Ave.-110th St.-Riverside Drive; and 10 - Broadway), nor of Amsterdam's itinerary (definitely 104 - Broadway, don't know about the others, though I did notice 100 - Broadway-Kingsbridge on a rollsign of routes assigned to Kingsbridge depot at the time).

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by transitbuff on Thu Jan 25 18:08:53 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Wed Jan 3 17:20:25 2018.

correct...except for the 2-5th & 7th.....aka the 2A...which was based at 146..(not 132)..

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Wed Feb 7 23:29:12 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by transitbuff on Thu Jan 25 18:08:53 2018.

I meant to ask: At what point would the ex-FACCo 2(A) have had its assignment changed to 146th Street? It would have still been at 132nd as of 1963 . . . I guess the change would have dovetailed with the 1966 one-way conversions of Fifth and Madison.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Apr 23 04:41:08 2018, in response to Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by 33rd Street on Wed Jul 22 01:12:53 2009.

Another forum had inquired as to what MaBSTOA's route assignments would have been as of September 1962. But even there, it wasn't "original," as at least one route had its assignment changed two months aforehand (FACO Division's Route 2, which at its restart on July 1, 1962 had been based out of Kingsbridge depot, but switched on the 13th of that month to 132nd Street). From the same article from which the list cited here had originated (they mentioned, in the individual routes, what was where when), I have been able to gauge the 9/62 assignments thus (with first transfers therefrom in parentheses):

132nd Street:
2 - Fifth and Seventh Avenues
3 - Fifth and Convent or St. Nicholas Avenues
5 - Fifth Avenue-Riverside Drive

Jackson Heights (Northern Boulevard) (closed 12/22/63, routes moved to 54th Street):
15 - Fifth Avenue-Queensboro Bridge-Jackson Heights
16 - Elmhurst Crosstown

12th Street:
12 - Spring and Delancey Streets Crosstown
13 - 8th Street Crosstown
14 - 14th Street Crosstown (via Avenue A / via Avenue D)

54th Street:
5 - Sixth Avenue (discontinued 11/10/63)
6 - Broadway and Seventh Avenue
6 - 72nd Street Crosstown
15 - 23rd Street Crosstown
16 - 34th Street Crosstown
20 - 57th Street Crosstown
21 - Houston Street and Avenue C Crosstown

100th Street:
1 - Park and Madison Avenues (via 135th Street)
2 - Park and Madison Avenues (via 116th Street)
11 - Ninth and Amsterdam Avenues
17 - 79th Street Crosstown
18 - 86th Street Crosstown
19 - 96th Street Crosstown
20 - 116th Street Crosstown
101 - Third, Lexington and Amsterdam Avenues (split with Amsterdam)

146th Street:
7 - Broadway, Columbus and Lenox Avenues
10 - Eighth Avenue and Central Park West
TB - Triborough Bridge

Amsterdam:
100 - Broadway-Kingsbridge
101 - Third, Lexington and Amsterdam Avenues (split with 100th Street)
103 - 59th Street Crosstown (transferred to 54th Street 11/5/62)
104 - Broadway
106 - 42nd Street Crosstown (transferred to 54th Street 11/5/62)

Second Avenue (routes transferred to Coliseum Depot effective 11/5/62):
1 - Concourse-138th Street
2 - Concourse Hub
5 - Bruckner Boulevard
6 - Throggs Neck
6A - Locust Point
6B - Throggs Neck Stadium (6, 6A and 6B discontinued 2/15/70)
7 - Boston Road
8 - Williamsbridge Road
9 - Eastchester Road
12 - City Island-Fordham
12A - Pelham Parkway
12B - Orchard Beach
13 - Castle Hill Avenue
14 - Edenwald Avenue
14A - Edenwald Shuttle (discontinued 1/8/71)
15 - Gun Hill Road
15A - Hillside Homes
16 - Webster Avenue
17 - Allerton Avenue
18 - Macombs Road
22 - Country Club
23 - Crosby-Layton Avenues
49 - Highbridge
50 - Freedomland (summer route only; discontinued 9/64)

West Farms:
21 - Pelham Bay Park (discontinued 2/15/70)
25 - Morris Avenue
26 - Boston Road-Morris Park Avenue
27 - Clason Point
28 - Williamsbridge
29 - Willis Avenue
31 - Southern Boulevard
32 - St. Ann's Avenue
33 - 138th Street Crosstown
40 - Tremont Avenue
42 - Westchester Avenue

Kingsbridge:
3 - Prospect Avenue
4 - Fifth and Fort Washington Avenues (transferred to 132nd Street 9/29/63)
4 - Jerome-Bainbridge
10 - Riverdale Avenue
10A - Spuyten Duyvil (discontinued 2/14/65)
10B - Fieldston (existence unconfirmed, but listed on front rollsigns c.1964 and in Bronx bus dispatchers' maps as of 11/67)
11 - 170th Street Crosstown
19 - 207th Street Crosstown (discontinuted 3/2/69)
20 - Bronx-Van Cortlandt
24 - Bailey Avenue
30 - 149th Street Crosstown (transferred to 146th Street 6/23/63)
34 - 163rd Street Crosstown
35 - 167th Street Crosstown
36 - 180th Street Crosstown
37 - Ogden Avenue
38 - University Avenue
41 - Webster Avenue-White Plains Road

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by WayneJay on Mon Apr 23 10:08:14 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Apr 23 04:41:08 2018.

Interesting. I never new the Bx1/2 had operated from COL. Kind of a stretch since all parts of those lines are some distance from COL. The Bx40 is one of those that could easily run from COL and WF.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Apr 23 13:15:11 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by WayneJay on Mon Apr 23 10:08:14 2018.

Many routes in Manhattan and the Bronx had all sorts of reassignments and ping-ponging between one depot and another in the MaBSTOA era (one of the most infamous being TB Triborough Bridge which veered between 146th and 100th every few years). M11 Ninth and Amsterdam, from what I can see, has been stationed in as many as six or seven (100th Street, 54th Street, Amsterdam, 132nd Street and its later successor Manhattanville, Hudson, and Westside/Michael J. Quill) since 1962.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 23 14:46:03 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Apr 23 04:41:08 2018.

I donít know when the FACCO 2 and 4 would have ever operated out of KB since 132 St and KB were 2 different divisions of the FACCO/STS conglomerate and the 4 operated pretty much right past the 132 St depot. As for someone mentioning not being aware of the Bx 1 or BX 2 operating out of Coliseum, when MABSTOA was created and the city took over the 2 Av (Central Bx) Depot, it immediately made that depot the NYCTA Manhattan Depot since till that time the original TA Manhattan Depot was an open air lot without a building and the city took advantage of the condemnation to acquire a physical building to house its buses.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Apr 23 17:13:23 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 23 14:46:03 2018.

2 and 4 were initially at Kingsbridge in the early going of MaBSTOA's operation, as the proceedings to acquire the FACCo 132nd Street depot by condemnation hadn't been finalized yet and wasn't fully completed until about July 1962. I read something about the FACO Division routes, at MaBSTOA's outset, scattered about. Notice that 6 - 72nd Street and 20 - 57th Street were at 54th Street at that point.

As for the TA's pre-'62 Manhattan depot (taken over by the Board of Transportation in 1948 upon their taking over the old East Side Omnibus and Comprehensive Omnibus routes that year), what would its address have been? I have some awareness of it being at 100th Street, probably a few blocks away from the ex-NYCO 100th Street depot (now Mother Hale Depot).

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Mon Apr 23 17:14:43 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Apr 23 17:13:23 2018.

Oops - I'd meant Tuskegee Airmen for 100th (Mother Hale is ex 146th).

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by andy on Mon Apr 23 23:25:38 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by W.B. on Mon Apr 23 17:13:23 2018.

Prior to MABSTOA, NYCTA Manhattan Division routes were based at two small buildings at East 100th and East 108th Streets. Not sure of the intersection avenue but I believe both were between 1st and 2nd Aves.

Manhattan TA Division, pre-MABSTOA, comprised today's M31 (only on York Avenue, not 57th St.), M15, M22, M50, and M66 routes.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Tue Apr 24 06:25:44 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by andy on Mon Apr 23 23:25:38 2018.

And the M-13 which by then was the Journal Building shuttle.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by northshore on Tue Apr 24 13:14:06 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by andy on Mon Apr 23 23:25:38 2018.

These were the former garages of East Side Omnibus and Comprehensive Omnibus.

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Tue Apr 24 15:32:28 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by northshore on Tue Apr 24 13:14:06 2018.

Between the old Comprehensive Omnibus and East Side Omnibus, which entity had the 100th Street garage and which had the 108th Street?

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 25 07:20:34 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by UTC Bus Roster on Thu Jul 23 22:00:27 2009.

Well, was the service horrible because the ridership was low...OR...was the ridership low because the service was horrible?



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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by northshore on Wed Apr 25 09:08:39 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by Italianstallion on Sun Mar 18 22:23:37 2012.

The Bx24 was a streetcar route. It was converted to bus on 6/27/48

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Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help

Posted by W.B. on Wed Apr 25 20:34:45 2018, in response to Re: Original MaBSTOA Route Assignments Help, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Apr 25 07:20:34 2018.

A vicious cycle, whether it was the chicken or the egg that came first.

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