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(1379707)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jan 2 10:15:28 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Jan 1 22:23:01 2016.

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No. Lost pax will still panic and pull the cord.

Fumigation is necessary but it does not have to be done on the main lion. You make 9/36 the LAST Stop on this train, and at 36th Street the pax will be told that this is the last stop on this train and to change here for the next (R) train to Fort Ham. The announcements and the displays all agree that 36th Street is the last stop, but the timetable really does have 9/36-LL as the last stop. When leaving 36th Street the remaining pax if any will be told that the next stop is Ninth Avenue, 36th Street Yards, Change for the (B) on the upper level.

Since 9/36 *is* in fact the last stop, rail fans and thems in the know are of course free to ride to that station.

ROAR

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(1379708)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 2 10:39:55 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Fri Jan 1 23:54:12 2016.

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There is when there has not been a train in half hour, which is a common occurance.

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(1379709)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by AlM on Sat Jan 2 10:44:54 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jan 2 10:15:28 2016.

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This is one of the few examples where this works. Another might be using lower level City Hall as the last stop on a southbound W instead of Canal.

But in most cases there is no convenient stop like that. Which is why you have the fumigation problem at Continental and would have it if you tried to turn trains at 137th on the 1 or at Queens Plaza.

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(1379712)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 11:02:55 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 2 09:58:52 2016.

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They're not terribly imposing. :)

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(1379713)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 2 11:03:18 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 2 09:51:41 2016.

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As I said, suppose the train doesn't recharge?

Suppose a cord is pulled?

The days of big burly motormen are gone. 2 little females on the train isn't going thrawt the bad guy. God forbid you use the shoe slipper or brake handle to defend yourself today. The old days are gone.

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(1379721)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 2 12:07:42 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 11:02:55 2016.

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True.

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(1379722)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 2 12:08:24 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 2 11:03:18 2016.

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They'd sue you for assault. And win.

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(1379724)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 2 12:24:32 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 2 12:08:24 2016.

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Exactly. Even so, these things are no longer covered up. Transit will have a long investigative process to see if discipline is warranted against you. If it's his (lying) word against yours, transit will give him the benefit of the doubt, unlike the old days.

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(1379731)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jan 2 13:47:38 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 2 09:51:41 2016.

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LOALM

Safety is a big concern. Rapists and robbers know the relays and opportunities they present.

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(1379737)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jan 2 14:17:17 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jan 2 01:52:35 2016.

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all the more reason,where possible, to do the change in the bright light of the platform.

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(1379739)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Jan 2 14:42:59 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 2 10:44:54 2016.

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Exactly. And since 9/36 LL is available we may as well make use of it.

ROAR



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(1379747)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Jan 2 16:14:29 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 2 12:08:24 2016.

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That's nonsense.

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(1379752)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 16:33:43 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by italianstallion on Sat Jan 2 16:14:29 2016.

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That *is* the thinking of the MTA, so might have actually happened.

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(1379755)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jan 2 18:39:07 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jan 1 22:28:32 2016.

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Yeah, I feel you there.
Why do you and Edwards like to feel people? Does anyone else here do that?

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(1379761)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 20:12:49 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jan 2 18:39:07 2016.

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You should try it sometime. But you're likely to get slapped. :)

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(1379767)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 2 20:27:39 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jan 1 23:50:08 2016.

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Crews get recovery time one way or the other. If the crew is relieved on arrival then the recovery time will take place then and the crew will board their next scheduled interval on the arriving track, relay it and continue from the departing platform. If the crew really the train on arrival then it will be relieved on the departing platform and board their train when the relay crew drops it on the stand after the required recovery time.

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(1379769)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 2 20:31:06 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 2 09:58:52 2016.

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We BMT Guys had the hammerhead brake handle which was even more evocative. A shoe paddle will also work quite well.

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(1379770)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 20:38:21 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 2 20:31:06 2016.

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The arnine handles were formidable enough. :)

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(1379772)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 2 20:49:49 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 02:14:28 2016.

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During my time on the IRT, Dyckman trains were either put ins or layups but never short turns as they were at 137 St. As for fumigation, the need for redundant T/Os can be eliminated by having a couple of platform C/Rs at stations that require fumigation to assist the road C/R in getting all the pax off the train. The plat C/Rs could also observe the trains as they enter the relay position in case any pax do manage to sneak back on and alert the on board crews via radio.

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(1379785)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jan 2 21:59:42 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 20:12:49 2016.

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Answer the question.

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(1379801)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 23:40:16 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 2 20:49:49 2016.

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That would work. As to Dyckman, back in the late 60's they did that a few times when I was riding north of there. Watch it leave, go into the Y, come back out and open up. Honked me off it did, but the explanation was that 242 was in conga mode and no sense adding to it. :)

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(1379803)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 23:43:45 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sat Jan 2 21:59:42 2016.

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Just did back there. Best I can do.



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(1379808)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 3 01:30:14 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 23:43:45 2016.

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Answer the question.

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(1379810)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 3 01:38:31 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 3 01:30:14 2016.

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Bump

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(1379812)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 3 01:43:12 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 3 01:38:31 2016.

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Answer the question.

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(1379816)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 3 02:00:25 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 3 01:43:12 2016.

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(1379857)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 3 13:34:22 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sat Jan 2 09:51:41 2016.

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From a previous message:

"But it's way cheaper to have T/Os hanging out at 137th (using a lag method) so that trains can be turned there without anyone walking the length of the train, as opposed to paying a T/O to go all the way up to 242nd and back to 137th. When a terminating train pulls into 137th, the T/O hanging out there enters the rear cab. Both T/Os can stay locked in their cabs as the train relays.

The T/O that now ends up at the back of the new downtown train gets out at 137th after the relay, crosses over and gets into the back of the next uptown terminating train, and then becomes the actual T/O of that train as it goes back downtown."

--------------

Right now I'm not asking about the fumigation policy (and yes, I do not like that word - the process I understand, but I do not like that word - we are talking about human beings).

As I understand it the 137th Street station in a simple three-track two platform local station with the platforms at the sides of the outer tracks, and that there is NO way for riders to cross between the uptown and downtown directions.

North of the 137th Street station the tracks fan out to eight tracks with the usual uptown and downtown tracks in the middle of that area. There is a set of track switches that allow a train to be placed on the center track for its return to downtown service.

The discussion concerned placing train operators on the platform to help clear terminating 137th Street trains of riders. Here's the quote that I'm referring to:

"The T/O that now ends up at the back of the new downtown train gets out at 137th after the relay, crosses over and gets into the back of the next uptown terminating train, and then becomes the actual T/O of that train as it goes back downtown."

This seems to imply that train operators in order to conduct this operation would be regularly walking between the tracks of a very active railroad! Unless I'm missing something.

Mike



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(1379859)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 3 13:51:51 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Michael549 on Sun Jan 3 13:34:22 2016.

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Unless I'm missing something.

You are. They go upstairs and cross the street.

But Bill pointed out other issues.


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(1379869)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 3 15:32:22 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 20:38:21 2016.

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Yes. By the way, that second word should be EFFECTIVE. I don’t know what’s going on with my spell checker but sometimes I can catch the error and correct it before it posts. Often what comes out is nowhere near what I type and it’s not just a typo since the letters that come out are in an entirely different part of the keyboard from where my fingers go.

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(1379870)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 3 15:34:55 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 2 23:40:16 2016.

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That would probably be the only time that Dyckman relay would happen since it was not scheduled that way. As the timetables were written, Dyckman St put ins returned to 137 St and 137 St put ins and turns would return to Dyckman.

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(1379885)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 3 17:04:58 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Sun Jan 3 15:32:22 2016.

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I knew what you meant, and the spell checker chose a more interesting word. It's all cool. What are you using on your end? Might be able to help you tame that. :)

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(1379886)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 3 17:05:59 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Sun Jan 3 15:34:55 2016.

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Welllllll ... you know what happened to the schedule (and even destination) back then when the railroad was jacked. :)

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(1379887)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by merrick1 on Sun Jan 3 17:22:58 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Sun Jan 3 13:51:51 2016.

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137th Street was kind of a screwy operation. 35 years ago I worked at Columbia Presbyterian. It was always a good bet to get on a 137th Street train because often they would change their minds and send the train to 242nd Street.

It seemed like they just made it up as they went along. Sometimes they would chase everyone off the train at 137th Street. Then they would announce that the train would be going to 242nd Street and everyone would get back on.

I've lived in Jamaica for the past 10 years and I don't recall seeing an R train or an M train randomly extended past 71st Avenue.

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(1379900)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 3 18:48:58 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by merrick1 on Sun Jan 3 17:22:58 2016.

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That was pretty much the way the Flushing Line used to operate. All the trains would be signed up for Main St but often the train that was supposed to go through went O/S at 111 St and the following train which was the layup would go through to Main St. One morning I was working the Flushing console in the command center and the M/M called in that he had a cracked side door glass in his operating car. I notified the ATD at 111 St who replied “OK command center, we’’ll make that a scheduled layup” even though the train was a Main St train.

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(1379911)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jan 3 20:27:29 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by merrick1 on Sun Jan 3 17:22:58 2016.

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I've lived in Jamaica for the past 10 years and I don't recall seeing an R train or an M train randomly extended past 71st Avenue

It happened on New Years eve, I seen a R train running lite Manhattan Bound though Union Turnpike in the middle of the PM Rush, plus there was a delay in F service due to signal problems... wouldn't be surprised if they sent an R up to 179th since the F train was delayed.

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(1379913)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 3 20:53:28 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jan 3 20:27:29 2016.

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Although you may not have seen it, it used to be and I hope it still is SOP to send a train like an R or M through to either 179 or Parsons if there is a delay in service to those locations. It used to be that a T/D who didn’t do that would be in serious trouble. The only time a supervisor could not route a train to another service would be in the case of routing a 600 ft train to Nassau St or a 75 fry car into the Eastern but absent that, local supervision had better provide service in the event of delay.

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(1379924)

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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?.

Posted by The Silence on Sun Jan 3 22:43:01 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by R30A on Wed Dec 23 17:35:52 2015.

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the info I've seen says most of those cars were gone by the time the axe was swung.

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(1379962)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jan 4 09:29:21 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by randyo on Sun Jan 3 20:53:28 2016.

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But then do you call the yard to get a train to fill in the missed interval on the local going back to Manhattan?

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(1379982)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by randyo on Mon Jan 4 13:56:30 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jan 4 09:29:21 2016.

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Under most circumstances not only would there usually not be a train instantly available, but there would also not be a crew available to operate the train even if there were. If the terminal T/D is notified in enough time he/she could notify the yard, but it would still take time for a T/O to OK the train for service which is why in a delay of this kind, there is usually not enough time to get a replacement train that can fill the interval.

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(1384001)

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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?.

Posted by Chris3117 on Wed Feb 3 17:36:44 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Dec 20 12:36:21 2015.

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When is second avenue subway is done; Make it equal service.

N/Q - Broadway Express; Have N train skips W49th street along with the Q train to 96 Street.

R/W - Broadway Local; Have the W trains increase service without additional service along Astoria. Once again will be created traffic on E60th Street.

Every station in Manhattan are still equal upon arrival.

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(1384021)

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Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?.

Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 3 18:40:58 2016, in response to Re: W train returning when Phase I of the 2nd Av subway opens in December 2016?., posted by Chris3117 on Wed Feb 3 17:36:44 2016.

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Violates load-balancing guidelines.
All that service unneeded on SAS.

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(1384253)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Chris3117 on Thu Feb 4 19:21:34 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Joe V on Tue Dec 29 11:00:49 2015.

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When second avenue subway is done; Make service smooth and efficiently. Switched Terminal Between Astoria and 71st Street Queens

Weekdays:
(N) 96th Street/2nd Avenue - Coney Island via Broadway Exp/4th Av- Sea Beach.
(Q) 96th Street/2nd Avenue - Coney Island via Broadway Exp/ Brighton Local.
(R) Astoria - 95th Street via Broadway Local; all times(New Terminal)
(W) Whitehall Street - 71st Street via Broadway local.(New Terminal)

Late nights and weekends in Manhattan:

(N) Broadway Express/4th Av Exp-Sea Beach all the way to Brooklyn via Bridge. Longest Line in Brooklyn; All times
(Q) Broadway Local via Bridge
(R) Broadway Local to 95th Street- Bay Ridge 24/7: Eliminating Shuttle R train in Brooklyn. All times
(W) No Service Between Manhattan and Queens

Late nights and weekends in Brooklyn

(D/R) 4th Av Local 24/7
(N) 4th Av. Exp and Sea Beach

Leave one 4th Av Express Service in Brooklyn.









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(1384255)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Union Tpke on Thu Feb 4 19:45:08 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Thu Feb 4 19:21:34 2016.

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you mean 71st Avenue

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(1384257)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Feb 4 19:58:57 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Thu Feb 4 19:21:34 2016.

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The R is not running between Astoria & 95 since no maintenance facility on either end = increased labor costs to get the equipment to one.

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(1384259)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by AlM on Thu Feb 4 20:11:32 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Thu Feb 4 19:21:34 2016.

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Too much weekday rush hour service to 96th/2nd and too little to Astoria.

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(1384264)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Feb 4 20:23:58 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by AlM on Thu Feb 4 20:11:32 2016.

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Agreed. I think one service to 96th is enough. It's what, 3 stops north of 57/7?

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(1384265)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by AlM on Thu Feb 4 20:30:25 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu Feb 4 20:23:58 2016.

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4 stops. Lex/63, and 72, 86, and 96.

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(1384297)

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by andy on Thu Feb 4 23:56:55 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Thu Feb 4 19:21:34 2016.

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"(R) Astoria - 95th Street via Broadway Local; all times(New Terminal)
(W) Whitehall Street - 71st Street via Broadway local.(New Terminal)"

These are the routings adapted in November 1967 when Chrystie Street opened. Problem with the R operating 24/7 between Astoria and 95rth-4th Ave is that there are no storage tracks or yards at either end. That's why the R and N were swapped in Queens in 1987. N equipment = CI; R equipment = Jamaica. Makes more sense.

The suggested W was the EE 1967-76; then the N replaced it. It did not operate 24/7; only M-F 6 AM - 8 PM. If this new W operates on the old EE route would need to be 7 days, 19 hours, to match the current R pattern.


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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Fri Feb 5 03:52:28 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Chris3117 on Thu Feb 4 19:21:34 2016.

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No. To make service smooth, efficient, and consistent, the N Sea Beach should be local, all the way from Coney Island to Astoria via the tunnel, 24/7. Currently, the N has four merges, with the D at 36th St., with the Q at Gold St., with the R at Prince St., and again the Q at 34th St. This royally screws over Broadway service. An N all-times local would have only one merge, with the R at 59th St.

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Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?

Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 5 16:29:04 2016, in response to Re: W to Astoria/N and Q to 96th Street?, posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Fri Feb 5 03:52:28 2016.

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N passengers are used to express service on 4 Av and will also probably get back Bway exp service when the SAS opens so it would not be politically feasible to take all the express service away from Sea Beach passengers. They may be able to tolerate an all local service during midnight hours but not 24/7.

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