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| Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways (1434679) | |
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| (1435060) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 5 07:15:57 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri May 5 01:36:01 2017. First of all you can forget that round robin nonsense. People in Rockaway fought too long and too hard to get rid of it. Far Rock: We used to visit friends in the Rockaways back in the 50's and 60's. I remember that the round-robin service started early, about 6 PM in the winter. If you boarded on the Rockaway Park Branch you had to ride to Beach 67th Street and change for a Euclid Avenue bound train. It was long and slow. The only good thing about it was that it gave railfans a chance to ride the single track Hammel's wye. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1435061) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri May 5 07:32:04 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 5 07:15:57 2017. Thank you. |
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| (1435065) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by AlM on Fri May 5 09:10:30 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by randyo on Thu May 4 16:49:02 2017. Of course. When there was less demand on the line the A ran local except during rush hours. But now there is more demand on the line, sufficient to support both the A and the C, and that prior fact is no longer relevant. |
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| (1435067) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Fri May 5 09:12:54 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu May 4 19:46:27 2017. How much of it is the "shared" section...Very little. Lefferts and Far Rock are the busiest stops because they are fed by buses, with Lefferts being the single busiest stop. |
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| (1435074) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by R30A on Fri May 5 11:07:23 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu May 4 19:46:27 2017. Lefferts Branch daily ridership:12K Rock Park Branch daily ridership: 2.5K Broad Channel-Aqueduct Racetrack daily ridership: 7.2K Even if EVERYBODY from Broad Channel to Aqueduct Racetrack took the Rockaway Park trains, it would be less busy than the Lefferts branch by a significant amount. |
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| (1435080) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Fri May 5 12:59:50 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 5 06:49:53 2017. Incorrect, it's part of Long Island |
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| (1435084) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 5 13:23:10 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Fri May 5 12:59:50 2017. No, correct. It is not an island, it is a peninsula coming off an island. |
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| (1435087) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri May 5 13:30:25 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by AlM on Fri May 5 09:12:54 2017. Yes, the #Q10 bus is the heaviest used in terms of passenger usage among the MTA Bus Company system of local routes, stopping at Liberty Avenue/Lefferts Boulevard for connection the "A", plus further northward at Union Turnpike-Kew Gardens for the "E" and "F".-William A. Padron ["Ex-GBL"] |
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| (1435088) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts and T to Euclid Avenue |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Fri May 5 13:38:15 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts and T to Euclid Avenue, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed May 3 13:23:17 2017. Yeah, if the SAS is built with Phase 3 and 4, but do not expect that in our lifetime if the funds are not there, let along going into Brooklyn, even if a tunnel provision was created for the service.Besides, any thoughts of construction would have to deal with tunnel work underneath some historic Brooklyn brownstone homes, which NIMBY's would have a field day in complaining. And so it goes... -William A. Padron ["Court"] |
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| (1435089) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 5 13:39:20 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by AlM on Fri May 5 09:10:30 2017. I am talking about the A running lcl even in rush hours. When I was a V/R M/M in 1969, and later in 1970 when I was a T/D at Euclid, the As ran local in Bkln 24/7. |
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| (1435090) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 5 13:42:17 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Joe V on Thu May 4 17:34:10 2017. At the time, the railcar manufacturer was of little consequence since the mechanical parts such as the motor control and air brake systems were the same regardless of who made the cars. |
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| (1435091) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by randyo on Fri May 5 13:44:52 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 4 19:39:47 2017. That was never the way it was done, however. Back when the Es and non rush hour shuttles ran to Rockaway, alternate As turned at Euclid so the headway to Lefferts was always double the mainline headway. |
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| (1435092) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by AlM on Fri May 5 13:46:44 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by randyo on Fri May 5 13:39:20 2017. Were there no expresses, or did the expresses terminate at Euclid?And how does this apply to the attitudes of riders today? |
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| (1435098) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 5 14:04:39 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by AlM on Fri May 5 13:46:44 2017. The E ran express. |
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| (1435100) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by AlM on Fri May 5 14:25:37 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 5 14:04:39 2017. Heh. I'd have to look back through this thread to find out where the E ran to in order to get an answer to my question. |
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| (1435113) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 5 15:18:07 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by AlM on Fri May 5 14:25:37 2017. At one point, the E ran to All terminals during rush hours.About 1973,the E became the Fulton local,terminating at Eucild and Rockaway Pk. E shuttle trains ran the Rock Park Broad Channel route. Nights,the A took over the former HH Round Robin shuttle. |
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| (1435114) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by AlM on Fri May 5 15:21:47 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 5 15:18:07 2017. At one point, the E ran to All terminals during rush hours.Wow. I hadn't realized any line was ever fragmented into 4 pieces. |
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| (1435118) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 5 15:55:59 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Fri May 5 12:59:50 2017. Take a look at a map.Nevermind the fact that I've lived there for 40 years I kinda know what I'm talking about. |
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| (1435119) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 5 15:58:04 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 5 07:15:57 2017. Good post. Imagine having to go somewhere and having to ride an extra mile and then back to that bridge to get off the peninsula. |
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| (1435129) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 5 16:38:34 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri May 5 06:52:47 2017. I'm not getting on your case I'm just saying |
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| (1435131) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri May 5 16:56:00 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri May 5 16:38:34 2017. I know. That's not how I took it at all. I know it's a peninsula I just say island. |
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| (1435137) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri May 5 17:39:26 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri May 5 01:49:00 2017. The WH ones.The GE ones,less than that. |
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| (1435148) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri May 5 18:52:17 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri May 5 01:36:01 2017. They should have fought long and hard to keep LIRR service. |
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| (1435157) | |
Hard numbers Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by AlM on Fri May 5 19:57:11 2017, in response to That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Apr 30 16:20:49 2017. A link to all ridership was posted a while ago. Here are the A stations in Queens. 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 104 St 1,715 1,693 1,751 1,725 1,736 1,333 A subway 111 St A subway 2,666 2,618 2,711 2,728 2,718 2,815 80 St A subway 4,151 4,101 4,181 4,253 4,291 4,664 88 St 2,638 2,648 2,680 2,677 2,719 2,065 A subway Aqueduct Racetrack A subway 52 61 116 0 551 1597 Aqueduct-North Conduit Av A subway 830 791 1,386 2,430 1,951 1,122 Beach 105 St 191 208 255 253 141 260 A subway S subway Beach 25 St 1,748 1,329 1,702 1,494 904 1722 A subway Beach 36 St 896 1,111 622 718 466 872 A subway Beach 44 St 594 478 748 538 297 581 A subway Beach 60 St 2,401 2,624 1,798 1,924 1,317 2,448 A subway Beach 67 St-Arverne By The Sea 1,912 1,546 2,236 1,859 1,118 2,183 A subway Beach 90 St 864 908 1,019 877 463 846 A subway S subway Beach 98 St 782 503 615 572 292 563 A subway S subway Broad Channe 325 318 304 267 127 251 l A subway S subway Far Rockaway-Mott Av 4,568 4,662 4,750 4,068 2,651 4,748 A subway Howard Beach-JFK Airport A subway 2,801 2,667 2,729 3,227 4,972 2,835 Ozone Park-Lefferts Blvd A subway 7,434 7,326 7,491 7,460 7,476 7,641 Rockaway Blvd A subway 7,441 7,715 7,786 8,045 8,662 8,474 Rockaway Park-Beach 116 St 796 778 845 741 379 677 A subway S subway |
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| (1435167) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Fri May 5 21:24:23 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri May 5 18:52:17 2017. Well you'll have to ask them about that yourself because I wasn't here then. |
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| (1435173) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 5 22:32:08 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by randyo on Fri May 5 13:44:52 2017. We arent dealing with the past service levels.We know A trains were LOCALS in Brooklyn till 73..and rush hour Only express with both E and C trains serving the local stations. Today,the C could handle the Lefferts branch without any issues simply due to how service has been intentionally kept to shitty levels since IND takeover. Yeah, it doesn't really matter if trains are moving every 20 minutes during the midday. |
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| (1435193) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 6 09:32:33 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Tue May 2 16:44:05 2017. Going great. Thanks for asking. |
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| (1435194) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 6 09:35:10 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by William A. Padron on Fri May 5 13:30:25 2017. It's also the cheap way to get to JFK. |
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| (1435195) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 6 09:36:33 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by R30A on Fri May 5 11:07:23 2017. Than having the whole C line serve it makes more sense than half the A. |
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| (1435218) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat May 6 12:22:47 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by AlM on Fri May 5 15:21:47 2017. Yup. |
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| (1435224) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat May 6 12:44:31 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri May 5 18:52:17 2017. LIRR was a private company and couldn't afford to build a new bridge.That's why the City of New York paid to build the new ROW. |
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| (1435233) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat May 6 16:21:07 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 6 09:36:33 2017. Exactly what I've been taking about.Better All C SERVICE TO LEFFERTS, than the dismall A service operated today. Hell...there were plenty of times I waited for EITHER TRAIN at Hoyt st,and it took over a half hour for Any to show up! Today,with trains being slowed down to Leisurely pacing...EVERY minute counts! |
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| (1435236) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat May 6 16:32:22 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat May 6 12:44:31 2017. Read "Change at Ozone Park". Restoring the bridge was the cheap part. Upgrading to subway service was the expensive (signals and higher 3rd rail power). The City could have simply rebuilt the bridge and turned leased the service back to the LIRR. Politics did not permit turning control back to a private, bankrupt railroad who the PRR had already said it would no longer bail out. |
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| (1435241) | |
Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sat May 6 16:52:40 2017, in response to Re: All (A) service to The Rockaways, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri May 5 07:15:57 2017. And that wye allowed minimal service just after Irean. |
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| (1435253) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Michael549 on Sat May 6 20:49:35 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 6 09:36:33 2017. In a number of messages about this issue there has been almost nothing but praise for extending the C-train to service the Lefferts Blvd terminal. There has been talk of reducing the wait times between trains for those who use those terminals, the benefits of all (or a greater majority) of A-trains servicing the Rockaways, etc.I'm taking no position (positive or negative) on any of those ideas. I am wondering about the effects of such a change upon CURRENT REGULAR RIDERS of the C-train at it's current local stations when the line is extended for six extra stops. For example take a regular rider at the Ralph Avenue subway station. - Will the wait times remain the same or get better (as in reduced waiting time) at Ralph Avenue? Is it proposed that the in-service rolling stock for the C-train be increased? One person said that there would "no changes" in C-train service except for extension. Or is it understood that the same amount of equipment will be used to serve further distances? - C-trains arriving at or leaving the Euclid Avenue terminal do not share tracks IN Brooklyn with the A-train Brooklyn express trains until the Hoyt-Schermerhorn Streets station. The proposed extension would have A-trains and C-train interweave into and out of each other's path as these trains proceed to their terminals. Currently problems that affect A-trains in the Rockaways do not effect C-trains in Brooklyn. The on-time consistent performance of C-trains and A-trains on the weekends has suffered greatly for months/years with the continual weekend and late night re-routes through West Fourth Street and along Houston due to issues with the Cranberry Tunnel, FTC and WTC. The interweaving of the trains along Rockaway Elevated track section would be added to the interweaving of the trains along Eighth Avenue, Houston Street and through Jay Street. - Much too often the concerns of regular riders at non-Manhattan local stations are given little attention in favor of other goals and plans. Take a regular C-train local rider at Ralph Avenue - just what is the benefit for having the C-train extended to serve more stations? Just wondering. Mike |
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| (1435264) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat May 6 22:40:09 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Thu May 4 08:28:32 2017. When did the TA start withdrawing the Westinghouse R30s? |
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| (1435265) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 6 22:49:47 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Michael549 on Sat May 6 20:49:35 2017. IMHO none. In fact I don't feel there's any benefit to the Lefferts Blvd. riders for replacing a one seat 25 minute express ride to Manhattan with a one seat local or two seat local express, longer ride to Manhattan. |
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| (1435266) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 6 22:52:27 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat May 6 22:40:09 2017. The end of 1990. By December 1990 they were gone. |
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| (1435267) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Sat May 6 22:52:31 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat May 6 22:40:09 2017. The end of 1990. By December 1990 they were gone. |
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| (1435268) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts and T to Euclid Avenue |
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Posted by randyo on Sat May 6 23:23:02 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts and T to Euclid Avenue, posted by William A. Padron on Fri May 5 13:38:15 2017. Intersting point. Back when the original IND was built, the city merely condemned any buildings that were in the way and through routed streets that were never there before like 6 Ave S/O W 3 St in Manhattan. |
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| (1435269) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by randyo on Sat May 6 23:25:23 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by AlM on Fri May 5 15:21:47 2017. During non rush hours, Es terminated as they do now at Hudson Terminal (WTC). Rush hour Es went to either Rock Pk or Euclid with 3 intervals originating at Lefferts in the AM and terminating there in the PM. |
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| (1435278) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 7 00:30:43 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Joe V on Fri May 5 17:39:26 2017. The GE ones were worse. |
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| (1435285) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun May 7 00:52:05 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by randyo on Sun May 7 00:30:43 2017. Those were the money trains right? |
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| (1435288) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by randyo on Sun May 7 01:01:07 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat May 6 22:40:09 2017. Not soon enough! |
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| (1435302) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by nyctransitman on Sun May 7 10:25:25 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by Joe V on Wed May 3 10:38:14 2017. I would reroute all "A" service from Lefferts Blvd. to Rockaway Park to increase the frequency on that branch so that more riders would use it instead of the Q53 bus. I would also reroute and extend the "E" train from Lower Manhattan through Brooklyn via express in Brooklyn to serve Lefferts Blvd. with a new express service. I would also ask MTA to create a new subway station at the Pitkin Yards where the "C" local could terminate serving Linden Blvd. and Sutter Avenue near Eldert Lane. |
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| (1435335) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun May 7 18:54:05 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed May 3 21:01:34 2017. In general, I think the time savings is lost if one has to wait more than four or five minutes for an express. Might as well stay on the local and enjoy the bird in the hand. Generally, if you don't actually see the express on the opposite track, waiting for it isn't worth it.As I recall, when the V was initiated, the MTA posted ads stating that the E saved only five minutes between Roosevelt Avenue and Queens Plaza and advised R and V riders there to stay on the local instead of changing to the E. |
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| (1435338) | |
Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun May 7 19:00:03 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun May 7 18:54:05 2017. It's a psychological thing. I hate being on a Local on the BSS in Philly and see an Express whiz by.🤓 |
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| (1435339) | |
Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun May 7 19:01:37 2017, in response to Re: That is great news, the C train being extended to Lefferts Blvd, posted by Michael549 on Sat May 6 20:49:35 2017. A very good point is raised here. If it weren't that only two tracks pass through Grant Avenue, making the A a peak direction express through there would perhaps be useful. Having the A and the C share tracks there may make things problematic. |
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Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun May 7 19:38:07 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun May 7 18:54:05 2017. That 5 minutes saved is important to most commuters. |
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Re: Extending the C To Lefferts |
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Posted by AlM on Sun May 7 19:43:07 2017, in response to Re: Extending the C To Lefferts, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sun May 7 18:54:05 2017. Expresses save a lot more time in rush hour than otherwise on many lines because the dwell time for the local at each station can be fairly long. |
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