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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 31 17:36:39 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Jul 31 00:01:06 2010.

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Nice rehab of a sharp looking building.

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(962458)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 31 17:41:39 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by MainR3664 on Sat Jul 31 12:19:52 2010.

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Sure that was common place. Today the TA gets paid by corporate America to do the same thing. Except the windows are clear. Grand central shuttle being a prime example and don't get me started on that dumb-ass, ugly "Target train" on the 6.

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(962459)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 31 17:42:32 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by LuchAAA on Sat Jul 31 12:27:14 2010.

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Probably laid up on a center track somewhere.

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(962476)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Jul 31 18:19:38 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 31 11:59:44 2010.

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"My father used to refer ENY and Bed-Stuy as "Dresden, after the war". "

Did your father know that this was caused by landlords who gave up on their buildings and the neighborhoods that their building were in and decided to burn them down to collect the insurance money and make the less fortunate homeles.......but some of this can be also traced to the destruction of the neighborhood caused by the building of the Robert Mose's Cross Bronx Expwy.

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(962478)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 31 18:21:52 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Jul 31 18:19:38 2010.

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true on both counts.

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(962479)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Jul 31 18:22:42 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Railman718 on Sat Jul 31 12:41:38 2010.

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Yea...now the Hipster crowd is invading the area by the Bunkner Ewpy with the artsy types moving in as well.

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(962482)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Jul 31 18:24:51 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 31 18:21:52 2010.

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And at the time....on one would dare stand up against Moses. It wasn't until later on in his career that a lone woman did when he wanted an expressway down through the heart of the Village and then he met his match.

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(962502)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Jul 31 19:36:25 2010, in response to The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 30 22:30:33 2010.

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Thanks for showing this video. I can remember some of my childhood during this period. I grew up on the Upper Westside as a child and I can recall how great it was growing up.

I feel sorry for the kids today. They lack a childhood and everything is regulated (unless you a criminal politician that follows the money). If you are honest and sincere, you will catch a lot of hell.

It wasn't perfect. A lot of people got killed if they hang around the wrong crowd, but if you kept your head straight, you made it well.

Opportunities still exist for the gifted. Jobs were more plentiful and life was simply fun.

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(962503)

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Re: GM New Looks, eeek! buses on Subchat (WAS: The South Bronx of the 1980's)

Posted by arnine on Sat Jul 31 19:37:31 2010, in response to Re: GM New Looks, eeek! buses on Subchat (WAS: The South Bronx of the 1980's), posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 31 17:30:27 2010.

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Ok then cool find :)

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(962507)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Jul 31 19:49:20 2010, in response to The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 30 22:30:33 2010.

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Hot 97 was Hot 103 where KTU is current stationed. The transition happened in 1988 (7)? between 97 WYNY, which became a country music station. I mentioned this, because the video looks to be in the early 80's around 82/83/84/ possibly 85, but definitely not 87.

A lot of "FUNK" sounding tracks in this video presentation. That was before 85. 85 was a transitional year for music.

Oh! One more thing. The Bronx looked so bad, not only because of crime, but because of what Robert Mosses did. The Bronx consist of more highways than any borough. These highways cut right through established community forcing the middle class and businesses to move.

And since highways traditionally move traffic through an area, the remaining businesses could not survived. The area that was mostly affected was the south Bronx.

By the time the mid-to late sixties took over, the area started to really depreciate. But that happened 20 years prior to putting in those highway systems.

When an area starts to depreciate, the criminal gangs start to take hold. And this is what happened in the Bronx.



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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Jul 31 19:51:45 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 31 07:37:16 2010.

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Does the J line comes to mind?

I always thought certain areas of Brooklyn was worse than the Bronx.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Jul 31 19:55:31 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Jul 31 18:19:38 2010.

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Thanks for mentioning the landlord and the insurance money. The landlords could not make money for the rents they were use to collecting, so they gave these building up. In other words, the buildings were worth more writing them off, than collecting the rents. Sad.

But former borough president with a group of politicians made an effort to do something about the Bronx. With the help of federal funding, they were able to bring the borough back.

The Bronx is still the cheapest borough to live.

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(962519)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Jul 31 20:01:14 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 31 12:35:56 2010.

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The graffiti artist liked when they paint the trains white. They just created a mural for them to paint on.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by arnine on Sat Jul 31 20:47:22 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Jul 31 19:55:31 2010.

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That's about to change :(

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Jul 31 22:07:36 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Jul 31 19:51:45 2010.

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Nothing even remotely resembling what happened in the Bronx. Even the most blighted areas of ENY and Brownsville have rebounded. As for the Bronx - there are still problem areas - for example, several rows of stores have burned down along the #2/5 corridor. But these sores have not been allowed to fester. New buildings go up as soon as the old ones burn down. Not so back in the 70's and 80's.

One of the clips shows Longfellow Avenue just south of the Cross Bronx Expressway. Those buildings are STILL standing. Not burned out - fully occupied. And no mounds of garbage in the streets either.

wayne


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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 31 23:19:04 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 31 11:59:44 2010.

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My father got out of Dresden just before the Allies bombed it off the map. He insists to this day that someone led him out of there alive.

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(962665)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 1 00:16:08 2010, in response to The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 30 22:30:33 2010.

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The amount of violence occurring in Chicago over the past two years is shocking

Two years? Two years ago should have been the starting point for a decrease in crime in Chicago.

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(962666)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sun Aug 1 00:27:42 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 1 00:16:08 2010.

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Spare us the racist innuendo regarding the President.

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(962682)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 1 01:45:30 2010, in response to The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 30 22:30:33 2010.

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Was "SMAZ" your tag?

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(962683)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 1 01:46:32 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sun Aug 1 00:27:42 2010.

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Ignore. I was responding to Mr. Mabstoa. I meant to ask SMAZ if his handle was his tag name.

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(962685)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SMAZ on Sun Aug 1 01:57:22 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jul 31 23:19:04 2010.

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How old was he during the Dresden firebombing?

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(962686)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by RAILFAN_7_40ST on Sun Aug 1 02:03:59 2010, in response to The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 30 22:30:33 2010.

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wow nice find...

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(962688)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SMAZ on Sun Aug 1 02:07:48 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 31 11:07:14 2010.

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You may be right. Since the video was Bronx-related I was thinking that it was by 180th St where the (5) takes over the old NY, W & B on the Dyre Av Line since the footage deals a lot with that area.

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(962691)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 1 02:13:57 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SMAZ on Sun Aug 1 02:07:48 2010.

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You may be right. Since the video was Bronx-related I was thinking that it was by 180th St where the (5) takes over the old NY, W & B on the Dyre Av Line since the footage deals a lot with that area.

LOL. The first thing everyone here noticed was the number of doors. It can't possibly have anything to do with 180th st.



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(962695)

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Re: GM New Looks, eeek! buses on Subchat (WAS: The South Bronx of the 1980's)

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 1 02:44:56 2010, in response to Re: GM New Looks, eeek! buses on Subchat (WAS: The South Bronx of the 1980's), posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 31 14:44:19 2010.

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Buses date from the same era as streetcars. In horse-drawn form, they're older. You're sounding like a NCL fan. You don't appreciate trains.

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(962732)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 08:32:11 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SMAZ on Sun Aug 1 02:07:48 2010.

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Yes, but they definitely "threw" in Fresh Pond too, and there is NO doubt about that scene.
Also, this train is a 60 foot, R10. They didn't run on the Dyre line.

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(962733)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 08:32:46 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Jul 31 20:01:14 2010.

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Yes, thatr had to be the most asinine thing the TA ever did.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 1 08:38:00 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 1 02:13:57 2010.

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That could be around Liberty Jct. where the line enters the old LIRR ROW.

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(962743)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun Aug 1 09:17:03 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 08:32:46 2010.

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Paris did the same thing in 1978, but their tagging problems didn't get serious until the mid to late eighties. Of course, it wasn't repeated after that.


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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 1 09:18:29 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 08:32:46 2010.

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The John Simpson paint scheme.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun Aug 1 09:19:40 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 31 17:41:39 2010.

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And Paris somehow did it to their RF based CBTC test train in 2006. Even on the windows and they didn't get paid since it was an ad for themselves.



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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:37:49 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Wado MP73 on Sun Aug 1 09:19:40 2010.

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The difference is that you can see out of those windows when they cover them like that. You couldn't on the graffiti trains. It was a big "surprise" when the doors opened to see what station you were at. And since the PA often didn't work, I am not kidding when I say "surprise when the doors opened".

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:39:52 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Jul 31 22:07:36 2010.

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Even the most blighted areas of ENY and Brownsville have rebounded.

He doesn't mean now, he means then. EVERYWHERE has rebounded, that is of course true, but back in the 80's, ENY and Brownsville were pretty rough, and let's not forget the Broadway El between Chauncey and Myrtle. It was a horror. I think what made the South Bronx perhaps slightly worse was because it was much larger buildings that were abandoned than Brooklyn had.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:42:19 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Jul 31 18:19:38 2010.

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It was not always the landlords that burned them down, although of course they often did. Tenants also burned buildings down, and abandoned buildings were often set on fire by drug dealers. It was a meltdown on ALL levels.

As for the Cross Bronx, Moses didn't kill NYC, ENY, Bed-Stuy, Bushwick, Brownsville also all fell without a "Cross Bronx Expressway", just like the Bronx did, and there were plenty of areas that had expressways put through that remained strong, for example, the Gowanas, Whitestone, Maspeth, and plenty more.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:42:53 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Jul 31 18:24:51 2010.

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LOL.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 1 09:43:00 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 1 09:18:29 2010.

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John Simpson is a $%^&ing moron.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:44:48 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by W Broadway Local on Sat Jul 31 19:55:31 2010.

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Thanks for mentioning the landlord and the insurance money. The landlords could not make money for the rents they were use to collecting, so they gave these building up. In other words, the buildings were worth more writing them off, than collecting the rents. Sad.

Wow, we are agreeing here. Due to rent control, many landlords couldn't afford to maintain their buildings because the rents were so low. Often, it was "better" for them to just walk away from a building leaving tenants to fend for themselves. Tenants often set a building on fire too, as then they had emergency relocation. It was a complete breakdown of the system on ALL levels.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:46:36 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 31 17:36:39 2010.

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I love seeing these old buildings in use again. I particularly am fascinated with before and after photos. There was a whole spread in the NYTimes some months ago with the city's 1939 tax photos, along with their 1980's tax photos, and that is some sight to behold the difference. Although then add a current photo into the mix, and it's full circle. I love looking at that stuff.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:49:45 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Jul 31 18:22:42 2010.

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"Invading"? It's a free country, no? Why is it "invading" when one group comes in, but it's anti-descrimination when another does?

That's the same crap I read in the NYTimes on Harlem's changes, and some activist said "We want to keep Harlem as a Black enclave". Huh? Imagine someone said "We want to keep Glendale as a White enclave"?

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by W Broadway Local on Sun Aug 1 11:08:11 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Jul 31 22:07:36 2010.

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Ok. You just got kill faster in Brooklyn than in the Bronx.

I'm a Manhattanite.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by W Broadway Local on Sun Aug 1 11:10:39 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:44:48 2010.

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Exactly.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Railman718 on Sun Aug 1 11:38:46 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:49:45 2010.

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Invading"? It's a free country, no? Why is it "invading" when one group comes in, but it's anti-descrimination when another does?

No Invading is not a right word to use here...

Taking it Effing over fits the bill better...

Where did all of those cafes come from all of a sudden??

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by 5119 on Sun Aug 1 11:46:51 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by streetcarman1 on Sat Jul 31 18:19:38 2010.

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It really started in 1974-1974, when most of the residents in the area moved to the West Bronx, particularly the Grand Concourse.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Michael549 on Sun Aug 1 12:06:07 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:44:48 2010.

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In addition NYC property tax payment policy in the 1970's also had an effect. Basically the city thought that if it decreased the period where a landlord or property owner was in default of paying their property taxes, the city would take the building/land. The period was reduced to 1 or 2 years. The city thought that decreasing the period of default before property taking, "the deadline" that would spur landlords and property owners pay their taxes and back taxes. Basically this just provided an incentive for property owners and landlords to abandon their properties, and the properties became "in rem", with NYC now owning them. Since that period, the "deadline period" for being in default of real estate tax payments, and other changes has made it more difficult for landlords and property owners to just walk away from their properties.

Thus the city ended up with masses of properties that it never intended to own or to care for. In the late 1970's and 1980's - that meant some buildings where the building and its systems were viable with a small infusion of cash were retained as tenanted housing, or sold to the residents as low-income cooperatives, or sold and/or transferred to other private landlords or owners. Some buildings were so damaged that the tenants were relocated, and the buildings sealed for possible rehabilitation in the future when funds became available. These buildings were thus abandoned, and were seen as that, sometimes serving as havens for criminal activities. Some buildings were so damaged that tearing down the building was the only option, using the land for another purpose at some point in the future, if possible. Sometimes this lead to situations where whole sites or blocks could be assembled for a better purpose.

My point is simple, city policy both intended and not (and not in anyway dismissing the actions of various people and other institutions) - lead to the various pictures of the South Bronx, Brooklyn, Harlem, etc.

Mike

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sun Aug 1 13:55:10 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:37:49 2010.

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i used to like and look for the dark cars to ride in. Only emergency lights, which were incandesent. Those cars had a great ambience to them and you always got a seat as most people were scared of the dark.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sun Aug 1 13:56:53 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 08:32:46 2010.

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It was said to be graffiti resistant paint. That was the spin put on it. They looked like very long garbage trucks.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sun Aug 1 14:00:39 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Aug 1 09:18:29 2010.

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John Simpson? Which one? There are so many

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 14:15:34 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sun Aug 1 13:55:10 2010.

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Yes, I remember that too.
Actually when I was a kid in the 70's, I remember my father was taking me home from Manhattan and we were on the L line. I remember we got on at Union Square in one of those dark cars, which apparently were also the "pot" cars sometimes.... I remember looking up at my father saying "What's that smell!?!", and he, not wanting to have to explain, just said, "I don't know, let's just move to the next car", and we did. It wasn't till years later when I smelled that smell again, and I remembered that day, "Ohhhhhhhhh, THAT is what that smell was!!".

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Re: GM New Looks, eeek! buses on Subchat (WAS: The South Bronx of the 1980's)

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sun Aug 1 14:29:01 2010, in response to Re: GM New Looks, eeek! buses on Subchat (WAS: The South Bronx of the 1980's), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 1 02:44:56 2010.

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Whatever.....troll on trollog, troll on.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Wado MP73 on Sun Aug 1 14:39:16 2010, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 09:37:49 2010.

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That kinda shows how you mainly used the above ground portions of the system. For us underground, it didn't matter as much.

OTOH, the lack of PA really sucked. Get on a train on the uptown local track at Columbus Circle, only to find out it's switching to the express track. Even worse was when it did so past 72nd St. You weren't safe until it stopped at 81st.

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