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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 06:48:45 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 31 00:21:27 2010.

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Yeah, fortuantely, the situation of block after block of abandoned and/or burned out buildings is a thing of the past- and I hope it never comes back.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 06:49:46 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Jul 31 07:37:16 2010.

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Definitely. It was the sort of thing that can't be real to those who never saw it themselves.

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Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 06:55:53 2012, in response to Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by DaRidgewoodBusBuff on Sun Apr 22 23:29:33 2012.

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There is nothing wrong with being nostalgic for one's youth. But do you really want your neighborhood to go BACK to being afflcited by all kinds of seriosu problems? Really?

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Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 07:01:10 2012, in response to Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 19:11:06 2010.

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If ever there was a series of photos to show how far we've cme, that's it. Today's 22-year old hipsters have no idea. Truthfully, if I go a long time without looking at photos like this, I start to forget. Thanks for the reminder.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 07:10:51 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 21 20:51:23 2012.

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There were probably many factors- a perfect storm of government neglect and social problems. Probably lasting pathologies that got their start in the Depression of the 1930s...let's remember that the 1950s and 60s weren't that long after the Dperession and WW2. While most areas, I suppose, economically prospered during WW2. Some areas weren't self-sustaining...so when the war ended, jobs left.

And no doubt, gentrification has its downside, but almost all of us would never want North Brooklyn and the South Bronx to rever to the conditions of the 70s and 80s...

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 07:20:32 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 22 18:46:01 2012.

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But every nieghborhood has its own characteristics. For example, much of Queens (though admittedly, not all) was still undeveloped in the post WW2 period, and there was less of a community to devastate in the first place. Then, the new community gre up around the highways. The CBE, on the other hand sliced right through exiting communities...

Now decades later, new communities are growing up around it, similar to what happened in Queens and Staten Island...but this "required" destruction and devastation of all that came before- with the associated consequences.

Also, as far as Bed-Stuy and Bushwick, with no expressways, going down, well, Moses still had a lot to do with the idea of building high-rise low income housing with no communities and no street life, and concrete, rather than green parks...in other words, his ideas for urban development did tremendous damage all around. I'm glad he wasn't able to build his parkways through the Staten island Greenbelt.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 07:25:07 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 20 18:20:10 2012.

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But almost everything along the Horace Harding service road looks like it was built after the expressway arrived...

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 23 12:03:06 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 07:25:07 2012.

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Nope, Horace Harding Service Road was once a normal Boulevard, and they condemned and knocked down one whole side of the road, and a few houses in to widen it to the LIE and service roads. You can see the narrow road it was once here by looking at this image, compare the current 2006 image with the 1954 image to see how it cut through the neighborhood:

historic aerials

And in some areas, it didn't even trace a boulevard at all. As it cut through Maspeth for example, it cut right through blocks and even at an angle! AGain, compare....

Use the slide feature to compare 1954 Maspeth to 2006 Maspeth. It cut through just like it did in the Bronx, the difference is startling. Yet Maspeth remained strong:

historic aerials

The whole idea that the Cross Bronx destroyed the Bronx is hogwash. It may have been one part, but the Bronx was in trouble before the expressway came. And many areas that got expressways stayed strong, and many other areas that were/are no where near an expressway fell just as hard as the Bronx.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 23 12:30:46 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 07:20:32 2012.

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there was less of a community to devastate in the first place. Then, the new community gre up around the highways. The CBE, on the other hand sliced right through exiting communities...

No, the Long Island Expressway did look at the historic aerials I just posted in the other post. The Expressway through western queens cut through neighborhoods just like the CB did in the Bronx.

Also, as far as Bed-Stuy and Bushwick, with no expressways, going down, well, Moses still had a lot to do with the idea of building high-rise low income housing with no communities and no street life, and concrete, rather than green parks...in other words, his ideas for urban development did tremendous damage all around.

That's not what happened to Bushwick. The neighborhood fell, and the reason projects came was because the land was cleared because the neighborhood was all burnt out. Moses didn't destroy Bushwick, that's another scapegoat.





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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 23 12:31:27 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 07:10:51 2012.

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Yes, well said.

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Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 23 12:32:38 2012, in response to Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 07:01:10 2012.

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Yes, we all tend to forget. Meryl Meisler's photos are amazing from the 80's, which is where the color photos in that post came from. I seriously suggest you check out her site.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 23 12:36:40 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 23 03:03:01 2012.

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Much more could have been done, and not just in the Bronx. Brooklyn also had serious problems. It was a deterioration on many levels. They almost allowed it to happen.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 23 13:45:20 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by J trainloco on Sun Apr 22 21:00:36 2012.

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Yeah, WTF is Edwards talking about? He still hasn't answered your question!

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Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Apr 23 13:49:56 2012, in response to Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 23 12:32:38 2012.

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I will do that when I get a chance.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 23 17:00:49 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 23 12:36:40 2012.

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I think this subthread needs to move over to OT given that it's moved past the trains of the time. But yes, the 80's were an acceleration of deterioration and sadly guided by the politics of the time. But that'd be way off course for the main board. Fortunately by the 90's, some wisdom started coming into play which finally allowed rebuilding.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 23 19:38:09 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by J trainloco on Sun Apr 22 21:00:36 2012.

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Perhaps..all depends on who you rent to..references..history..etc.
I have dealt with NYCHA VOUCHERS[SECTION 8],and SOME have turned out to be very good people..

I have dealt with bad real estate agents/companies and good ones..ALL looking to make money off you and your property...
dealing with NEW YORKERS shady business ethics has certainly soured my taste for living here...but I love my neighborhood..if others are moving in..why should I move out?there must be something that attracting the urban explorer types...[could it be out pricing from the big city?]
In any case..Brooklyn has always been my home,for better or worse.the ONLY way IM LEAVING is faced with a no choice situation.

you're stuck with me.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 23 19:40:28 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 23 13:45:20 2012.

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son..this is a grown folks conversation..shut your mouth and keep reading..you might learn a few things.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Apr 23 20:32:46 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 23 17:00:49 2012.

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The 80s were a horror in the brooklyn too. The 90s surely helped and chage was very noticable by the early 2000s.
This has been a great thread....the firat time around....and the second time too.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 23 21:08:49 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Apr 23 20:32:46 2012.

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Cool! :)

I got to see some of Brooklyn's worst, but got to live it in the Bronx. I suppose I'm fortunate that I got out of there before it really got bad, but I just got tired of the whole city lifestyle. Got to see the building I moved out of burn on TV while living upstate too. That was personal. :(

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Apr 24 01:10:17 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Apr 23 20:32:46 2012.

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You knows the 90's..some of Reagan's "Trickle Down Economics" money finally made it to some of our pockets..though most of that decade for me was spent out of Brooklyn doing "stuff" for the Navy.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Railman718 on Tue Apr 24 01:22:22 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Edwards! on Mon Apr 23 19:40:28 2012.

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+1



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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Tue Apr 24 01:49:01 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Railman718 on Tue Apr 24 01:22:22 2012.

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LOL+2

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Railman718 on Tue Apr 24 01:53:46 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Tue Apr 24 01:49:01 2012.

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The funny part will be the response that prob wont have anything to do with the topic..

:o)

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Apr 24 02:00:59 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 16:21:29 2010.

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There were a lot of buildings like that on Eastern Parkway too - the boards were painted to hide the fact that they were abandoned.

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Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Apr 24 02:15:27 2012, in response to Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 19:11:06 2010.

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I rode down Gates Avenue for other reasons last week through that stretch---never realized what had hit 35 years ago...and I walked down past that very IS 291.

Sometimes, the past just has to come back to slap you in the face even if it isn't a pleasant reminder of yesteryear...or in my case, a time before I was born.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Apr 24 05:15:10 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 23 21:08:49 2012.

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I presume that was the one Howard Cosell was referring to during the 1977 World Series? Even if that wasn't it, still had to be horrible to see.

At least now they are finally rebuilding the South Bronx, which should really have been done a long time ago given the close proximity to Manhattan, especially next to the Jerome Avenue and Concourse lines.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 24 05:30:21 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Apr 24 05:15:10 2012.

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We saw that too ... but no, when we first moved upstate, we lived in New Paltz and you could pull in NYC TV stations if you had enough metal on the roof and a whopping amplifier. They sent Sue Simmons out for it since nearly the whole block burned at once. :(

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Apr 24 10:27:40 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Apr 24 02:00:59 2012.

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In the Bronx, and Brooklyn too, I remember they would put fake looking windows as boards to hide the fact that they were abandoned....they had painted shades on them, painted curtains, painted plants in the windowsill, etc.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 24 12:59:14 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by J trainloco on Sun Apr 22 21:00:36 2012.

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bump

Yeah, WTF is Edwards talking about? He still hasn't answered your question!

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Apr 24 14:04:35 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Railman718 on Tue Apr 24 01:53:46 2012.

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Yep



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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Apr 24 16:15:03 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Railman718 on Tue Apr 24 01:53:46 2012.

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And THIS is where the thread goes downhill..once you get caught up in his drama..feeding into the BS..Everything prudent to this subject becomes secondary...

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980s

Posted by Dan on Tue Apr 24 18:03:40 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980s, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 21 15:58:23 2012.

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I remember driving through East New York in the 1970s and it bad, but the South Bronx was much worse.

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Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Subbus aka ENY Local on Thu Apr 26 17:52:34 2012, in response to Re: Bushwick Before and After Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 21 21:19:41 2012.

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So did I.
We used the B46 from Crown Heights to Quincy and X, then transfer to the B52 for the short ride to Evergreen Ave. One time, a couple of cousins rode back with us on the B52 to Malcolm X to get back on the B46.(It was late Sat nite/early Sun morn). They did it to make sure we were safe.

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Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's

Posted by Subbus aka ENY Local on Thu Apr 26 18:08:54 2012, in response to Re: The South Bronx of the 1980's, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Aug 1 16:21:29 2010.

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Nice website, although some locations are identified wrong..........

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